Escaped methane gas detection

Shrews · September 2023

WTF?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66811312

In the year 2023 it takes a satellite to detect a methane gas leak from a pipeline. A leak so big that it could have powered 7500 homes for a year. Didn't the company notice that there was a bit of a problem? I would argue that it should have been picked up in the first month...hold on...first week...hold on...first day...hold on... first hour.

Especially as we're in a heightened situation (apparently) towards greenhouse gasses across the world.

Meanwhile, in London, somebody has just a bill through the post for an ULEZ charge.

Surely governments should be nailing companies who fail in their duty to get gas safely from plant to consumer?

I'm staggered the technology does not exist in this day and age to detect even the smallest leak.

sev112 · September 2023

What ???? Wales and West say that they became aware when a member of the public reported smell of gas
Methane is odourless?!

ICBM · September 2023

Shrews said:

WTF?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66811312

In the year 2023 it takes a satellite to detect a methane gas leak from a pipeline. A leak so big that it could have powered 7500 homes for a year. Didn't the company notice that there was a bit of a problem? I would argue that it should have been picked up in the first month...hold on...first week...hold on...first day...hold on... first hour.

Especially as we're in a heightened situation (apparently) towards greenhouse gasses across the world.

Meanwhile, in London, somebody has just a bill through the post for an ULEZ charge.

Surely governments should be nailing companies who fail in their duty to get gas safely from plant to consumer?

I'm staggered the technology does not exist in this day and age to detect even the smallest leak.

I'm very surprised that their own flow monitoring didn't flag up a difference between what was going in at one end of the pipe and what was coming out at the other end. Stupid... especially as it's valuable as well as environmentally damaging.

sev112 said:

What ???? Wales and West say that they became aware when a member of the public reported smell of gas
Methane is odourless?!

But methane which has been treated to make it 'natural gas' isn't. That's exactly why they do it.

rhinofeet · September 2023

Fugitive emissions are a massive problem in the oil and gas industry, particularly in piping networks. The operator will know there is a leak somewhere but there are probably thousands of miles of piping and limited resources to go searching so they only get picked up after a couple of years. There will be more...

rhinofeet · September 2023

Duplicate post

Dominic · September 2023

Whats more to the point is that these providers are so bastard profitable that they can withstand/tolerate such a loss without going skint .....it must be small enough in the first place in comparison to profits not to be a huge red flag in accounts .
Damn them.

Shrews · September 2023

rhinofeet said:

Fugitive emissions are a massive problem in the oil and gas industry, particularly in piping networks. The operator will know there is a leak somewhere but there are probably thousands of miles of piping and limited resources to go searching so they only get picked up after a couple of years. There will be more...

But in this day and age where we are told the world is dying because these gasses getting into the atmosphere and we all need to do our bit, it's really no excuse. I would be staggered that a leak of this magnitude couldn't be found, even if it wasn't for the extra responsibility that should now go with it.

The Green Party should be all over this. Actually all parties should be all over it. It's unacceptable.

My guess is they won't be.

blobb · September 2023

ICBM said:

I'm very surprised that their own flow monitoring didn't flag up a difference between what was going in at one end of the pipe and what was coming out at the other end. Stupid... especially as it's valuable as well as environmentally damaging.

This. Pressure drop should have detectable and actioned. The thing with methane is that you don't want any oxygen getting back into the pipe because it tends to explode. If they were using overspressure protection (Whessoe valves) they should know if they were triggering, you can't use Whesso for direct release, only emergency protection and on alarm they should have shut the line down immediately. You don't play games with methane lines because of the potentially explosive atmosphere situation. I wonder what their DSEAR planning is like?

If it's gas to grid, the methane is enhanced with (I think) propane & the smell additives. If that's what they are talking about then it's not a direct methane release. But it says methane in the report so I'll go with that.

Shrews · September 2023

blobb said:

ICBM said:

I'm very surprised that their own flow monitoring didn't flag up a difference between what was going in at one end of the pipe and what was coming out at the other end. Stupid... especially as it's valuable as well as environmentally damaging.

This. Pressure drop should have detectable and actioned. The thing with methane is that you don't want any oxygen getting back into the pipe because it tends to explode. If they were using overspressure protection (Whessoe valves) they should know if they were triggering, you can't use Whesso for direct release, only emergency protection and on alarm they should have shut the line down immediately. You don't play games with methane lines because of the potentially explosive atmosphere situation. I wonder what their DSEAR planning is like?

If it's gas to grid, the methane is enhanced with (I think) propane & the smell additives. If that's what they are talking about then it's not a direct methane release. But it says methane in the report so I'll go with that.

Yep.

The point is from now what happens?

Given that we are all being told about methane gas and how it affects the climate I would expect a government investigation, penalties etc, mainly for two reasons:

1. Penalise the company to show them it's unacceptable
2. Make a big deal of it in the media to show the masses that the government are treating climate change seriously

I doubt any of those things will happen.

Dominic · September 2023

it would be interesting to calibrate that amount in Average Cow farts as units of measurement.
Bet it runs to many millions.

TimmyO · September 2023

He who smelt it dealt it

Dominic · September 2023

it would be interesting to calibrate that amount in Average Cow farts as units of measurement.
Bet it runs to many millions.

blobb · September 2023

Shrews said:

Yep.

The point is from now what happens?

Given that we are all being told about methane gas and how it affects the climate I would expect a government investigation, penalties etc, mainly for two reasons:

1. Penalise the company to show them it's unacceptable
2. Make a big deal of it in the media to show the masses that the government are treating climate change seriously

I doubt any of those things will happen.

If we release methane (Biogas) from an anaerobic digester, and we do nothing about it, then these things do indeed happen. It pretty much comes down to the 'what did you do when you found out?" situation. Nothing works 100%, 100% of the time. You are (and should be) allowed to have things fail on you. If you don't protect yourself against these failures (HAZOP, LOPA etc...) or worse, fail to respond (SOP's). then yes, throw the book at them.

'Causing or knowingly permitting' a pollution event.

blobb · September 2023

...or worse:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avonmouth_explosion

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Escaped methane gas detection

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