String packaging rant

Tannin · September 2023

Who else shares my little fetish for appropriate string packaging?

In my book, a properly packed set of strings:

* Seals the strings up in an airtight package to prevent corrosion.
* Uses as little plastic as possible.
* Uses paper sparingly

Things about string packaging which annoy me:

* failure to seal the strings up against air and moisture.(John Pearse, go and stand in the corner. Face the wall.)
* wasteful and environmentally stupid individual plastic packages for every individual string
* wasteful and slightly less environmentally stupid but still stupid individual paper packages for every string.
* three sealed packages with two strings per pack (usually E and D, B and A, G and E). What is the friggin point? It's no more convenient than six individual envelopes and still environmentally worse than a single envelope. Worst of both worlds. Just use one.
* Strings which are coiled from both ends. This makes them difficult to untangle. Especially in the dark if you are in a hurry! Especially especially with the plain strings. And it is completely pointless. Smart string makers coil from the ball end only. This doesn't come undone unexpectedly and is still very easy to uncoil when you want to. Flip, flip, sprung - hey presto - an uncoiled string ready to use.

Some people like colour coded ball ends. I'm fine with that but even with my wonky old eyes I don't have any trouble telling strings apart by sight and/or feel. So I don't care if they do it or not.

And another thing. I fucking HATE it when idiot string manufacturers use non-standard oversize ball ends! Yes, I'm looking at you Dogal. And I don't care if your strings are hand made in Venice and packed in recyclable paper made from seaweed in the Venice lagoon and prices to max out my second mortgage. Use the bloody standard bloody size like (almost) everybloodybody else.

Oh, and another other thing. Leave the holes in your ball ends. Filled-in ball ends are different and eye-catching but a bit of a pain.

ScreamingDave · September 2023

I’m with you in principle. I use D’addario (which I always have to check the spelling of) who use one sealed bag per set and a recycled cardboard outer, or one outer for 3 or even 5 sets if you stock up.

The coloured ball ends are OK and helpful. I’d rather they miraculously turned to brass on being tensioned (get on it, D’addario!) but I can live with it. If anyone in the (small-ish) crowd notices the coloured ball ends then we’re obviously not holding their attention with the music and need to give up.

I do like it when they give you a spare 1st in the pack. I haven’t broken a string in many a long year, but it’s a nice thought.

I’d like it if acoustic string manufacturers gave you two 3rds, one wound and one not, but then I’d have a box of pointless wound 3rds and everyone else in the world would have a box of pointless unwound 3rds.

And, while I’m demanding impossible string technology innovations, self-tuning strings would be good. I haven’t really thought this one out, but ….

And, how about relic’ed strings? Pre-corroded and clogged with dried sweat and dead skin?

Tannin · September 2023

^ Classic LOL/WIZ dilemma. I'm going to lie awake tonight thinking I should have wizzed when I LOLed. But the notion of relicked strings pushed me over the edge in the LOL direction.

WezV · September 2023

i remembered an old discussion about D'addario packing strings in two's
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/29917/daddario-strings-packaging-nuis @Voxman ;;;

to save reading all of that,

this was their response to @voxman

Thank you for your e-mail.

Over the last five years we have implemented Toyota's Lean manufacturing systems at D'Addario. Lean is a culture of continuous improvement that was perfected by the Toyota company and is utilized by hundreds of thousands of businesses around the world. It has helped us improve our quality, improve our customer service and control our manufacturing costs.

In fact the Lean transformation has been so effective in teaching us world class manufacturing principles that we have been able to apply the disciplines we have learned to every area of our business; from the harvesting of cane in France and Argentina for our Rico Reeds, to developing new products, to the assembly of Planet Waves Pro-Winders in New York. An example of the success of "Lean" at D'Addario is the fact that we have been able to re-shore 50% of our Planet Waves products that were previously being imported from Asia.

In our string production area we have made countless manufacturing improvements. You may not be aware, but D'Addario produces nearly 800,000 strings a day at our Farmingdale New York headquarters. We are proud that even though our volume exceeds our nearest competitor by a factor of two or three times, our quality control and manufacturing consistency has continued to improve and is the benchmark for the industry. We are also proud that all our strings, drumheads, reeds, drumsticks and many of our accessories are Made in the USA. In fact 95% of the products we design and produce are American made.

Recently I visited the Woodstock Luthiers Festival where 98% of the guitars on display were strung with D'Addario strings. When talking to each luthier they all told a common story. When they set out to build their guitars they use D'Addario strings exclusively, because of the quality of their sound and their consistency set after set. D'Addario strings are the reliable reference they use as they build and ultimately set up their instruments.

Part of the DNA of the D'Addario family and company is that "We are the most difficult people to please, not our customers ". We also have a deep respect for our planet and try our best to minimize our impact on our environment.

In the late 1980's we began to develop and pioneer the environmental packaging we use today. It was a major breakthrough as it eliminated the individual envelopes that were required to identify each of the six strings in a set. It created other issues in production that led to the creation of a conveyor system where operators coiling strings for each note in the set would drop their string on the conveyor as it kept indexing. The conveyor would then deliver complete six string sets to the end of the line where they were bagged in a corrosion barrier bag and then inserted in a recycled paper outer envelope. Two pieces of packaging replaced eight; a 75% reduction in packaging material being discarded.

This system eliminated the need to cut down tens of thousands of tress and also improved productivity. It also resulted in a significant price decrease in the early 1990's and has helped us to hold future price increases on our string sets to a minimum.

It is our culture to respond to every single comment, question or suggestion we receive from our end users, in a timely and respectful manner. We also carefully monitor any quality concerns regarding our products and take them very, very seriously. After all it is our culture to maintain the reputation as the highest quality producer of music strings and accessories.

While we only receive a handful of complaints each week historically the most common complaint has been the occasional incomplete set. A user may open a package and find he is missing a string. On our packaging conveyors it was difficult for the person packaging the sets at the end of the line to identify if all six strings were present.

We tested sophisticated check weighing systems to flag incomplete or incorrect sets, but none could detect the many combinations of errors that could occur during the process. About two years ago, someone had the revelation that if we coiled the strings in pairs it would be much easier for the operators at the end of the lines to detect if they had a complete set. Visually it is easier to see three neatly coiled pairs of strings than six randomly mixed individually coiled strings.

We set up one line to package sets this way for over a year. Tens of thousands of sets were put into the market place and we found that this new system virtually eliminated the issue of incomplete sets.

While have seen a handful of complaints from customers in regards to the new coiling system, we trust that the reassurance that all 6 strings will be in the package when you need them will outweigh the negatives.

Litterick · September 2023

I use Rotosound: sealed plastic bag with all the information you need on the back. The ball ends are red, white or blue for the wound strings and for the unwound. It all works, without fuss.

My secret vice, however, is a Pyramid set, with each string in its own paper envelope.

TTony · September 2023

WezV said:

Thank you for your e-mail.

Over the last five years we have implemented Toyota's Lean manufacturing systems at D'Addario.

Someone now needs to introduce them to the TL:DR email writing process

jellybelly · September 2023

Litterick said:

I use Rotosound: sealed plastic bag with all the information you need on the back. The ball ends are red, white or blue for the wound strings and for the unwound. It all works, without fuss.

My secret vice, however, is a Pyramid set, with each string in its own paper envelope.

Was coming here to praise Rotosound too. Proper British company, if that makes any difference. I imagine, once air miles are taken into consideration, they'd be the most environmentally friendly option for us brits.

Tannin · September 2023

I think, in the case of a small, light, product which needs no refrigeration like guitar strings, air miles are pretty much irrelevant.

But I'll happily vote in favour of Rotosound packaging even from here in Australia. Good strings, good price, well packaged. What's not to like about Rotosound?

OilCityPickups · September 2023

jellybelly said:

Litterick said:

I use Rotosound: sealed plastic bag with all the information you need on the back. The ball ends are red, white or blue for the wound strings and for the unwound. It all works, without fuss.

My secret vice, however, is a Pyramid set, with each string in its own paper envelope.

Was coming here to praise Rotosound too. Proper British company, if that makes any difference. I imagine, once air miles are taken into consideration, they'd be the most environmentally friendly option for us brits.

We use Rotosound on all our pickup demo guitars and both Tim and I use them on our personal instruments now too. I'd used D'addario since the very early 1980s but I was gobsmacked by how much longer the Rotosounds lasted ...

DefaultM · September 2023

WezV said:

While have seen a handful of complaints from customers in regards to the new coiling system, we trust that the reassurance that all 6 strings will be in the package when you need them will outweigh the negatives.

Not really. All 6 strings being present is the bare minimum expectation.

WezV · September 2023

DefaultM said:

WezV said:

While have seen a handful of complaints from customers in regards to the new coiling system, we trust that the reassurance that all 6 strings will be in the package when you need them will outweigh the negatives.

Not really. All 6 strings being present is the bare minimum expectation.

I think it is clear they agree with you.

Hurling_Fruitmig · September 2023

ScreamingDave said:

And, how about relic’ed strings? Pre-corroded and clogged with dried sweat and dead skin?

No thank you, they sound like bog standard used strings. If they were chemically aged and pre-weakened at the common stress points, and covered with an artistically applied layer of fake skin and artificial sweat they would sell like hot cakes.

prlgmnr · September 2023

WezV said:

i remembered an old discussion about D'addario packing strings in two's
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/29917/daddario-strings-packaging-nuis @Voxman ;;;

to save reading all of that,

this was their response to @voxman:

*snip*

The classic "by the time you've read the answer, you'll have forgotten what you asked" approach

maltingsaudio · September 2023

Question if you use daddario exclusively for acoustic and electric, apart from obvious differences on the wound strings how do you tell from the ball end colour on the plain strings if its a 9 or 12?
Ps Use Picato's exclusively and have done for 27 years!

axisus · September 2023

Life is too short to fret over string packaging. There's a joke in there somewhere relating to the word fret, but like is too short to fret over fret jokes.

jdgm · September 2023

All done by machine of course so ranting is.....futile, alas..

I like Rotosound, Fender multi-set packaging. Haven't tried EB or D'Addario for years since I found DR.

Picato - who remembers the round plastic boxes? They were Picato weren't they?

bluecat · September 2023

I used Roto
Sound strings in the sixties, I thought they were cheapoes then.
The very best strings I find for acoustic are , Ernie Ball Earth Wood Rock and Blues . I am sure you have tried them Tannin, I would never use anything else.
Nothing wrong with the packaging either. I do buy in bulk and never had a problem.

Tannin · September 2023

Yes, @bluecat, though only one set and several years ago. I liked them but felt the finish was very rough and noisy. Not the "Rock and Blues" variant though. I've never heard of that one, nor seen it advertised in three continents. I have another set of Earthwoods here, as it happens, waiting for their turn to go onto a guitar.

As for their packaging, I didn't make notes. I'm a bit annoyed that I failed to record the packaging for all my different string experiments and have only just started doing so. I aim to build a Database of Shame (or merit, of course, but this is the Internet, where we all naturally prefer Shock, Horror, and ShaME!

Fez · September 2023

jdgm said:

All done by machine of course so ranting is.....futile, alas..
I like Rotosound, Fender multi-set packaging. Haven't tried EB or D'Addario for years since I found DR.
Picato - who remembers the round plastic boxes? They were Picato weren't they?

Indeed they were and I still have one doing service as a pick tin

hollywoodrox · September 2023

When paying £6 or £7 for a packet I like each one to have it’s own sleeve in case I just need to use one string

midlifecrisis · September 2023

why cant they manufacture strings ready tuned, it would save time.

nero1701 · September 2023

Packet of 10-52 Daddarios yesterday...High E tarnished and rusty on the 9th fret...I've complained

danishbacon · September 2023

I’ve had a few sets of chrome daddarios come with poorly wound strings (spaces/gaps between the coils). They’re clearly churning them out as fast as possible. I’ve never experienced such a thing with Thomastik.

Tannin · September 2023

^ And at Thomastik prices I should bloody well hope not!

Thomastiks ~ typically around $30 US
D'Addarios ` typically around $6 US

You could throw away 4 out of 5 sets of D'Addario and still not be any worse off.

(Are Thomastiks better strings? Sure they are. Five times better? Nope.)

All that said, I'm not particularly a fan of D'Addario strings. I know a lot of people swear by them, and they will do the job at a pinch, and they are generally well-made, but I can't say I particularly like them.

Also, I should mention that D'Addario is one of the most-often faked brands. If you are buying them from the likes of Amazon or E-bay, you've probably got counterfeits. That would explain the poor quality.

danishbacon · September 2023

Tannin said:

^ And at Thomastik prices I should bloody well hope not!

Thomastiks ~ typically around $30 US
D'Addarios ` typically around $6 US

You could throw away 4 out of 5 sets of D'Addario and still not be any worse off.

(Are Thomastiks better strings? Sure they are. Five times better? Nope.)

All that said, I'm not particularly a fan of D'Addario strings. I know a lot of people swear by them, and they will do the job at a pinch, and they are generally well-made, but I can't say I particularly like them.

Also, I should mention that D'Addario is one of the most-often faked brands. If you are buying them from the likes of Amazon or E-bay, you've probably got counterfeits. That would explain the poor quality.

Daddario chrome are £23. Sometimes Thomastiks can be had for around £17.

The ones I’ve had issues with (more than once) were genuine. Daddario sent replacement singles.

Thomastiks, in terms of feel tone and quality are in another league, for my application and preferences.

skullfunkerry · September 2023

ScreamingDave said:

And, while I’m demanding impossible string technology innovations, self-tuning strings would be good. I haven’t really thought this one out, but ….

Didn't Floyd Rose do this with their speedloader guitars? Which if I recall correctly, sold like extremely cold cakes...

Mike58 · September 2023

I still use Black Diamond strings light guage 13-56 with a wound 3rd.. fantastic value at 7/6d a set. Available from all good guitar emporiums.

OilCityPickups · September 2023

One of the reasons I stopped using D'addario was the insane amount of fakes on the market. Lots of fake Ernie Ball too ... you can buy them in bulk on Ali-Express

crunchman · September 2023

OilCityPickups said:

One of the reasons I stopped using D'addario was the insane amount of fakes on the market. Lots of fake Ernie Ball too ... you can buy them in bulk on Ali-Express

You have to be careful where you buy from. Someone like Strings Direct will have genuine ones, but they aren't as cheap.

nero1701 · September 2023

I actually had 2 high e's from thebsame 3 pack tarnished in the same place.
I generally get strings from my local ship, I like the interaction and I prefer it to Amazon ect.

I reached out to daddario, they are sending me 2 high e's and 2 fresh packs. Was a smooth interaction.

Voxman · September 2023

Re the theme of all 6 strings being there, and D'Addario's approach, I was just curious if anyone here had ever opened a set of new guitar strings to find there was string missing? Never happened to me so just wondered and if so, which brand and how long ago?

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