Seymour Duncan Powerstage 700 - opinions sought.

Nerine · August 2023

As per thread title.

I'm thinking this piece may form part of my rig in the near future, so would like to hear from anyone that has any experience with it.

I'm kinda of the thought that modelling will likely become more and more prevalent, and honestly, valve amps feel a little archaic to me after having owned a Fractal FM9 for a year.

I've been very happy running it into several different monitors, and lately, I like the thought of using a guitar speaker and ditching the whole IR option paralysis. Plus I think it adds to the realism no end. It's been mega running into the power section of my Friedman, but it's limiting in terms of stereo fx etc.

Plan is to run stereo into a Powerstage 700 into a pair of Creamback loaded 1x12 cabs. Probably Zilla ported ones or similar.

I'm fairly confident it'll sound ridiculous, but even so due diligence and all that, innit.

Nerine · September 2023

I'll open it up a bit, lol.

Anyone running an SS power amp into guitar cabs with a modelling front end, and then using no cab sims (obvs).

Clecko · September 2023

I do this with the smaller PowerStage 170 (Guitar > Helix > PowerStage > Cabinet). I use the cab of my 2x12 Bluesbreaker at home (looks nice, sounds nice), and a lighter 2x12 cab/whatever is at the destination when I'm out.

For me, it works really well and solves the problems you hear from people who use studio monitors or FRFR speakers and feel the sound is too sterile or they don't get the experience of the 'amp in the room'.

sweepy · September 2023

I used the HB GPA400 rack stereo amp with my Helix and AxeFx3, worked really well, quiet and very punchy

Fiftyshadesofjay · September 2023

I always try to use my Kemper with a real guitar cab where possible, sounds good to me.

I don’t really like using FRFR as backline. I do still run the main Kemper outs full range to FOH though.

Nerine · September 2023

Clecko said:

I do this with the smaller PowerStage 170 (Guitar > Helix > PowerStage > Cabinet). I use the cab of my 2x12 Bluesbreaker at home (looks nice, sounds nice), and a lighter 2x12 cab/whatever is at the destination when I'm out.

For me, it works really well and solves the problems you hear from people who use studio monitors or FRFR speakers and feel the sound is too sterile or they don't get the experience of the 'amp in the room'.

Yeah, my recent experience mirrors this.

I’m enjoying having it all come at me via guitar speakers rather than FRFR.

It’s much more realistic, and not really any more inconvenient.

I gotta say I’m always impressed every time I use my FM9.

I really enjoy getting into the tweaking of stuff via the editor too.

It’s much quicker to call up an amp model and then smack that into some real speakers and tweak from there than go FRFR and go down the IR wormhole.

digitalscream · September 2023

Clecko said:

I do this with the smaller PowerStage 170 (Guitar > Helix > PowerStage > Cabinet). I use the cab of my 2x12 Bluesbreaker at home (looks nice, sounds nice), and a lighter 2x12 cab/whatever is at the destination when I'm out.

For me, it works really well and solves the problems you hear from people who use studio monitors or FRFR speakers and feel the sound is too sterile or they don't get the experience of the 'amp in the room'.

This. For me, it was HX Stomp -> PS170 -> Matrix NL212, and it worked flawlessly. I never had anything but exactly the sounds I wanted, and never had a suggestion from anybody else that it was anything but a real amp.

I'd long thought that amp modelling wasn't the problem with realism, but rather that IRs - as good as they are - are the real culprit. When I first tried it and compared it to the DXR10 I'd been using, it confirmed those thoughts.

sgosden · September 2023

[when gigging] I run a helix > matrix GT1000fx > one or two cabs / whatever back line there is.

I found this a very adaptable set up for all sizes of venue - whether the amps where doing all the work, or its a bigger place that just needs a bit of stage volume. Or even a cab pointed at drummer when the monitoring sucked.

Also meant the FoH had the choice of a direct IR, or could Mic a cab if that's how they're more comfortable.

Does the 700 have EQ on it?
that's very helpful for room adjustment, without having to go into the modeler set up!

digitalscream · September 2023

sgosden said:

Does the 700 have EQ on it?
that's very helpful for room adjustment, without having to go into the modeler set up!

The SD Powerstage amps actually have some of the best EQ I've ever come across - very controllable but also with huge range. And, best of all, the bass is actually a bass control, rather than a mud control.

Nerine · September 2023

digitalscream said:

I'd long thought that amp modelling wasn't the problem with realism, but rather that IRs - as good as they are - are the real culprit. When I first tried it and compared it to the DXR10 I'd been using, it confirmed those thoughts.

Yeah, I'm on this page. I've only had a my FM9 for just under a year, and the IR thing is definitely where I would throw some shade.

I'm happy with my DXR10 mkII, as well, to be fair, but suspect a couple of 1x12 Creamback cabs and a stereo power amp like the Powerstage 700 will absolutely trounce it.

I know the models in Fractal World are essentially imperceptibly different to their real world counterparts as I've done a lot of A/B testing and comparisons, so I know the modelling is bang on, but yeah, the cab thing has irked me for some time. I always struggle to find an IR that sounds balanced and natural to me.

monquixote · September 2023

I totally agree with this approach.

I've always found IRs to be disappointing unless it's for sending to a desk or recording. I found this approach superb for flexible live work.

The Powerstage is a nice unit, my one complaint would be that on the 170 it has a design fault that can make it easy to accidentally short it causing it to fail and be difficult to repair.

I did marginally prefer a valve power section, but it's an extra layer of faff.

digitalscream · September 2023

monquixote said:

I totally agree with this approach.

I've always found IRs to be disappointing unless it's for sending to a desk or recording. I found this approach superb for flexible live work.

The Powerstage is a nice unit, my one complaint would be that on the 170 it has a design fault that can make it easy to accidentally short it causing it to fail and be difficult to repair.

I did marginally prefer a valve power section, but it's an extra layer of faff.

Ohhhh! That reminds me - there's a design flaw in the power supply too, which may also apply to the 700. Basically, the smoothing capacitor is between the mains socket and the power switch, which holds a charge even after it's been switched off and unplugged. That means that, should you get your fingers near the mains socket pins, you can get a nasty shock.

I settled on the solution of switching it off at the wall first, then switching the power off on the unit itself so it discharges before the cable's unplugged and the pins are exposed.

exocet · September 2023

monquixote said:

I totally agree with this approach.

I've always found IRs to be disappointing unless it's for sending to a desk or recording. I found this approach superb for flexible live work.

The Powerstage is a nice unit, my one complaint would be that on the 170 it has a design fault that can make it easy to accidentally short it causing it to fail and be difficult to repair.

I did marginally prefer a valve power section, but it's an extra layer of faff.

My take is that when you go direct to desk in a live context, everything else is mic'd up anyway so it sounds "right" in the mix. However the whole FRFR thing is a minefield if you are attempting to recreate the "amp in the room" experience. Rolling everything above 5KHz or so definitely helps but you are still dealing with mic type / positioning characteristics that are baked into whatever IRs you are dealing with.

Nerine · September 2023

digitalscream said:

monquixote said:

I totally agree with this approach.

I've always found IRs to be disappointing unless it's for sending to a desk or recording. I found this approach superb for flexible live work.

The Powerstage is a nice unit, my one complaint would be that on the 170 it has a design fault that can make it easy to accidentally short it causing it to fail and be difficult to repair.

I did marginally prefer a valve power section, but it's an extra layer of faff.

Ohhhh! That reminds me - there's a design flaw in the power supply too, which may also apply to the 700. Basically, the smoothing capacitor is between the mains socket and the power switch, which holds a charge even after it's been switched off and unplugged. That means that, should you get your fingers near the mains socket pins, you can get a nasty shock.

I settled on the solution of switching it off at the wall first, then switching the power off on the unit itself so it discharges before the cable's unplugged and the pins are exposed.

Good to know! Yikes!

Nerine · September 2023

exocet said:

monquixote said:

I totally agree with this approach.

I've always found IRs to be disappointing unless it's for sending to a desk or recording. I found this approach superb for flexible live work.

The Powerstage is a nice unit, my one complaint would be that on the 170 it has a design fault that can make it easy to accidentally short it causing it to fail and be difficult to repair.

I did marginally prefer a valve power section, but it's an extra layer of faff.

My take is that when you go direct to desk in a live context, everything else is mic'd up anyway so it sounds "right" in the mix. However the whole FRFR thing is a minefield if you are attempting to recreate the "amp in the room" experience. Rolling everything above 5KHz or so definitely helps but you are still dealing with mic type / positioning characteristics that are baked into whatever IRs you are dealing with.

Yeah, it's this level of IR faffery that I'm starting to find a ballache. Fine for FOH, obvs - I have a cab block on a separate output for that, but for the whole backline, amp in a room thing, yeah, guitar speakers.

I don't actually mind IRs in smaller places when I have the guitar wedge in front of me. That's then similar to being mic'd up at a gig and hearing it back through monitors or IEMs or whatnot. I can deal without a cabinet in that scenario.

paulmapp8306 · September 2023

I use the PS 170 with my Axe-=FX3 and have done for a while now. Ive used the Matrix GT800 and GT1000 in the past, as well as Fryetts Power Station and before al those a VHT 2:50:2.

this goes into a Zilla Cab (2x12) loaded with a V30 and a Creamback - works perfectly well for me.

Nerine · September 2023

paulmapp8306 said:

I use the PS 170 with my Axe-=FX3 and have done for a while now. Ive used the Matrix GT800 and GT1000 in the past, as well as Fryetts Power Station and before al those a VHT 2:50:2.

this goes into a Zilla Cab (2x12) loaded with a V30 and a Creamback - works perfectly well for me.

Do you find the Powerstage in any way inferior to any of those other options listed? I have also considered the Fryette stuff so it’d be good to know from someone who’s had both.

Cheers!

paulmapp8306 · September 2023

Nerine said:

paulmapp8306 said:

I use the PS 170 with my Axe-=FX3 and have done for a while now. Ive used the Matrix GT800 and GT1000 in the past, as well as Fryetts Power Station and before al those a VHT 2:50:2.

this goes into a Zilla Cab (2x12) loaded with a V30 and a Creamback - works perfectly well for me.

Do you find the Powerstage in any way inferior to any of those other options listed? I have also considered the Fryette stuff so it’d be good to know from someone who’s had both.
Cheers!

not noticeably.....

The Fryette stuff (both powerstation and 2:50:2) was useful in earlier iterations of the Fractal amp sims. those vales added the 1-2% missing. Things have moved on to the point its not needed any more. The 2:50:2 sounds wrong now. The powerstation still sounds great BUT its no better IMO, and the Powerstage is lighter and has not maintenance (valve replacements etc).

I actually still had the Power Station when I bought the Power stage (confusing lol) and compared them a lot before I let the fryette go. Ive not felt the need to revisit that.

Nerine · September 2023

paulmapp8306 said:

Nerine said:

paulmapp8306 said:

I use the PS 170 with my Axe-=FX3 and have done for a while now. Ive used the Matrix GT800 and GT1000 in the past, as well as Fryetts Power Station and before al those a VHT 2:50:2.

this goes into a Zilla Cab (2x12) loaded with a V30 and a Creamback - works perfectly well for me.

Do you find the Powerstage in any way inferior to any of those other options listed? I have also considered the Fryette stuff so it’d be good to know from someone who’s had both.
Cheers!

not noticeably.....

The Fryette stuff (both powerstation and 2:50:2) was useful in earlier iterations of the Fractal amp sims. those vales added the 1-2% missing. Things have moved on to the point its not needed any more. The 2:50:2 sounds wrong now. The powerstation still sounds great BUT its no better IMO, and the Powerstage is lighter and has not maintenance (valve replacements etc).

I actually still had the Power Station when I bought the Power stage (confusing lol) and compared them a lot before I let the fryette go. Ive not felt the need to revisit that.

Thanks.

Appreciate the insight here.

jellybelly · September 2023

This is my preferred approach - eventually lede to using a Fender Tonemaster.

Laney has a powered guitar speaker (,LFR112) for this application - a nice neat solution, sounded great when I was using a Helix. Assume the Seymour Duncan with a decent cab would be just as great.

MARVlN · September 2023

jellybelly said:

This is my preferred approach - eventually lede to using a Fender Tonemaster.

Laney has a powered guitar speaker (,LFR112) for this application - a nice neat solution, sounded great when I was using a Helix. Assume the Seymour Duncan with a decent cab would be just as great.

I think the LFR112 is just a FRFR speaker, just it uses a 12" driver? i.e. without a cab sim it's going to sound terrible

Interesting reading this thread as this is my preferred solution for playing at home - use a couple of 2x12s in stereo powered by a couple of SS power amps, driven with the non-cab sound from Amplitube or Tonex. I do have a Barefaced Uprising (wired in stereo) coming soon to replace the two 2x12s, which should be even better (and much less beamy).

jellybelly · September 2023

MARVlN said:

jellybelly said:

This is my preferred approach - eventually lede to using a Fender Tonemaster.

Laney has a powered guitar speaker (,LFR112) for this application - a nice neat solution, sounded great when I was using a Helix. Assume the Seymour Duncan with a decent cab would be just as great.

I think the LFR112 is just a FRFR speaker, just it uses a 12" driver? i.e. without a cab sim it's going to sound terrible

Interesting reading this thread as this is my preferred solution for playing at home - use a couple of 2x12s in stereo powered by a couple of SS power amps, driven with the non-cab sound from Amplitube or Tonex. I do have a Barefaced Uprising (wired in stereo) coming soon to replace the two 2x12s, which should be even better (and much less beamy).

It has built in emulation of either a 1x12 or 4x12 cab as well as FRFR mode.

But the FRFR isn't really full Freq - definitely has a guitar cab 'flavour' to it. Made IRs sound more realistic, IMO. .

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Seymour Duncan Powerstage 700 - opinions sought.

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