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UNPLANNED DOWNTIME: 12th Oct 23:45
NAD - Emprize Oxford
Power_Freak
Frets: 90
Wanted to give a quick shout out to this forum, had been eyeing this amp for a while and the only reviews of Emprize I could find anywhere was on here, so thanks!
It's a take on a tweed Harvard (5f10) circuit, small changes include using a noval valve in v1 instead of a pesky 7 pin one, and using a 2 input chassis instead of 3. Otherwise (I'm told) it's pretty much identical to a Harvard (my favourite of all the tweed circuits). Only got a quick chance to give it a test, but with my cc-pickup'd tele it sounds great. Hoping to give it a real test (including the pedalboard test) later today
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I've also borrowed/bought a bunch of different 10" drivers to test out to see what works best, might have to wait until the weekend to do that though.
V1 - 12AY7
V2 - 12AX7
Was the combination of choice for me, more usable volume range, slightly opens up the top end at the expense of a little bass.
What was interesting was the 5751 in V2 seemed to not sound good to me (comparatively at least), not entirely sure why that is. I've loved that tube in V2 and/or PI positions before, but not here.
Awesome score on the amp, by the way
(I only ever tried a 5751 in V1 in my little VHT Special 6... I didn't really like it! I guess it would help with an amp which had too much preamp gain like a tweed amp, though. I'm a bit the same as you, I don't really like that "going into meltdown" thing that a lot of the vintage-style amps do when really cranked.)
The 5751 sounded killer in V1 (that's essentially what a stock Harvard is - at least the later ones, earlier ones had a 12AX7 equivalent - in terms of gain at least, since they used 7 pin valves). But in V2 everything disappeared, it came weedy, boxy and stiff - it's not gain related since I quite enjoyed an AY there. Just something about the 5751 in particular just didn't seem to work.
First a gutshot because everybody likes those:
Then a quick speaker swap:
As this is a guitar forum I have to slate the RI Jensen's - they all sound awful *sarcasm*
On a superficial level it just looks "right" to have a speaker like this in there, which makes me happier. It is also marginally lighter with this speaker which is never a bad thing.
This speaker (p10r-fen - fender edition) is much more my scene than the Emi. Much much more high end ("sparkle", "chime", "air" - whatever adjective you like to use) and the low end is softer and more giving when you dig in. Significantly less mids and wouldn't cut through a band mix quite as well but that's a price I'm willing to pay. The lower sensitivity suits an amp like this too (IMO at least) and is less fatiguing to listen to long term.
I think this one will be hard to beat (for me at least)
The eminence is surely not a bad speaker however, I can see why they're so popular. I think it would absolutely kill in a non-tweed fender with more of a scooped profile as it'll help balance it out (and will have the power handling not to cave in with bass of a later princeton for example). As always depends how you want to use it.
I do like Eminences, but (as I said in that other thread) they do have a bit of a "house sound" which tends to be a bit more modern, at least to my ears (or I should say, what I take to be "more modern"- I've never tried any genuine vintage amps or speakers lol!). I know on a lot of the more USA-centric forums a lot of people act like they're way better than RI Jensens, and I sort of know what they mean (they're more versatile probably for more modern music as well as being quite a bit more efficient), but you do seem to lose a little bit of that vintage sparkle and "tone", for want of a better word- it really depends on what you want.
Awesome pics of the amp
EDIT: You were pretty lucky with the magnet there, too- it's not too big in the P10R. The P10Q might be pushing it with the 6V6es if you were unlucky...
(b) That's very interesting- you're right about the 12AY7, it's even lower gain I think? Might it be an impedance issue or something like that?
12AX7 have a mu of 100, 5751 have 70 and 12AY7 have 45 - still unsure what it is about the 5751 that made it go a little funky in v2, I guess it could just be the circuit values in the amp making some sort of band pass filter with the internal capacitances/conductances/etc. of the 5751 - but I have no idea really.
(b) Oh yeah I see what you mean about the picture and the space- now you mention it it does look like there's a fair bit of spare depth there. I know with the smaller alnico speakers like the 6" and 8" ones you can sometimes get into trouble with the valves being in the way!
(c) Yeah it is strange, it's getting way beyond my pay grade- which is basically, "Wow valves are awesome, aren't they?"
And yeah - plenty of space! If I stick with a jensen I might get a bell cover for it... Just to satisfy my very shallow aesthetic desires
Speaker shootout results:
Disclaimers:
- Only tested with the oxford (duh)
- Some speakers tested in the oxford cab, some in separate cabs
- I did not have the ability to switch speakers instantly, there was a refractory period to do the switch
- I left the amp controls at 12 o’clock throughout the test, I didn’t try and dial in each speaker individually
- When I mention “dirt” I used my usual dirty sound of a Rat style pedal running into a Zendrive
- I use the neck pickup (CC style or humbucker) exclusively and I play with an extremely delicate touch – heavy handed blues/rockers keep tht in mind
Eminence
Alessandro GA10SC64: loud, very middy, top end and low end rolled off. Cut through very well. Quite dark and tight sounding, under dirt it held up well. Not quite as touch sensitive as some others. I believe that in a non-tweed fender with a scoopier EQ (and a lot of bass) it could be a killer speaker.
Legend 1028 (alnico): Very similar to the Alessandro in terms of EQ, pushed very hard it starts to compress
Celestion
Greenback 10 and Gold 10: Both had similar low mid fatness no other speaker had. Probably the most “balanced” sound all around. I am after a more traditional tweed sound and don’t particularly enjoy celestions in tweeds for that reason. If I was going this way I’d just go for a 12 baffle and get a “proper” one though if I’m honest.
Jensen
P10r (regular version): pretty bright, brash, a little out of control. Has that wiry, reedy, sort of tweed sound I like. Noticeably quieter than all the above. There is a noticeable compression when hit hard, but very touch sensitive prior to that
P10r-f (fender version): Similar to the above, top end rolled off a little but still has enough of that airy high end for me. Slightly quieter than the regular possibly, but only just. A little smoother sounding when the OD is applied, but still has the tweed reed-y sound
P10q – Wild top end, very very bright, very brash. For me a little too much clean, but sounds incredible with OD. If I only played with fuzz and wanted a wild sound I’d be very happy with this one
Weber
Can’t remember the model names – I think they were 2 different takes on the p10r. One was brighter one was smoother in the top. Both much more “polite” than the Jensen, arguably more “boutique” sounding – some would say this is “better” some would say it’s “less characterful” than the Jensen equivalents. Volume a fair bit higher than the Jensens, less than the Eminences.
And the winner is:
Lots of good speakers here, all have their uses. If I was in an ideal world I’d keep 2 1x10 cabs – one with the smoother of the Webers for clean sounds, then a p10q for dirty sounds – and some sort of crazy switching system that would allow me to switch between the 2 for each sound.
Unfortunately, I must be somewhat sensible – so for me the p10r-fen was the best compromise. Cleans are fairly similar to the Webers, but when I pile on the dirt it still does that wild Jensen thing.
I still want to try a paper cone alnico Jupiter, and I’ll likely scratch that itch eventually – but for now I’m happy.
Excellent write-up on the speakers too, thanks very much for that, that's very useful. Funnily enough what you said about the P10R versus the Fender version pretty much tallies with what Jensen says- but not with their soundclips for some reason!
I also think you like the opposite to me (that might be your mainly using the neck pickup)- I tend to like brighter tones for cleans but warmer tones for distortion.
Maybe! Or maybe even just the circuit? I haven't been able to try my P12R with my Princeton as it's the wrong impedance, but the tweed Princeton doesn't exactly lack bass. I've currently got my P12R in a stereo 2x12, so that's a fairly big cab too- it's a compact 2x12 so it's probably more like an oversized 1x12, but it's not exactly small for the single speaker. It might even just be volume- I've noticed as the volume goes up the bass seems to fill out a fair bit (all the Rs I've tried seem to do that).
(Awesome amp by the way, that looks great!