The first UK guitar hero…..?

Nitefly · August 2023

It was certainly Hank who made me want to play, back in the early 60's, closely followed by George Harrison.

Heroes? To teen-aged me, absolutely.

ICBM · August 2023

Sassafras said:

All the very best guitarists started off on banjo!

That's because you have to be supremely good to get anything resembling music out of a banjo.

(I actually used to work with one of the very best banjo players in Scotland, and he said much the same! And it is a wonderful instrument... when played as well as he could.)

guitars4you · August 2023

ICBM said:

Sassafras said:

All the very best guitarists started off on banjo!

That's because you have to be supremely good to get anything resembling music out of a banjo.

(I actually used to work with one of the very best banjo players in Scotland, and he said much the same! And it is a wonderful instrument... when played as well as he could.)

Although the origins of a 5 string banjo are older, the 4 string banjo is often seen as easier to play - Generally strummed and made popular in dance bands of the day as a 'louder' rhythm instrument - I think it might explain the movement of tenor banjo players to tenor guitars, before moving onto 6 string guitars - Back in the 30's my grandad ran a dance band and the guitar player played a tenor f hole guitar - Tiny Grimes was a well known tenor guitarist of the day

A 5 string banjo is traditionally played in a finger style 'claw picking' format - I think that is why so many USA players mastered the country picking' style as they either started off on a G banjo or were taught by G banjo players - I suppose today we associate a G banjo with blue grass, country, Celtic etc hence seen as far harder to learn to play effectively

ICBM · August 2023

At the risk of further banjo diversion

, something I find quite funny is that banjos seem to be almost universally despised by guitarists, especially electric guitarists... and yet one of the most sought-after sounds on an electric guitar is a pretty close representation of a banjo, and especially how it sits in the mix when used for that same type of percussive chord sound.

The Strat 'quack' or 'cluck' sound.

p90fool · August 2023

ICBM said:

Alexis Korner.

He was the guitarist in Chris Barber'sos Jazz Band as early as 1950, before even Lonnie Donegan had any success, and went on to be a huge formative influence on the British blues scene of the 1960s.

Very few people are as important or influential on British music as Alexi but even though I played with him when I was a 19 year old blues-obsessed guitarist I wouldn't describe him as the guitar hero type.

His influence among future movers and shakers was massive, but not so much on the general public.

KevS · August 2023

In the Public Eye...Hank Marvin..

The coolest sounding on record in the UK at the same time,possibly Joe Moretti..
Joe Brown ,Big Jim Sullivan too,,but Moretti played on Shakin All Over and Brand New Cadillac,
way cooler sounding than Cliff..
I think he sounded more Badass than Hank..
Vince Taylor was way more of a Badass than Cliff..Way more..lol

Hank was kind of the ambassador of UK guitar..
He influenced all of the later guitar heroes..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Moretti

Tannin · August 2023

ICBM said:

At the risk of further banjo diversion , something I find quite funny is that banjos seem to be almost universally despised by guitarists, especially electric guitarists... and yet one of the most sought-after sounds on an electric guitar is a pretty close representation of a banjo, and especially how it sits in the mix when used for that same type of percussive chord sound.

The Strat 'quack' or 'cluck' sound.

OilCityPickups · August 2023

Power_Freak said:

OilCityPickups said:

Sassafras said:

Hank Marvin didn't look any more goofy than Buddy Holly.

That's because he was copying Buddy Holly in suits and glasses and Strat!

And Cliff copied Elvis ... right down to practising the 'lip' in front of the mirror ...

And Elvis is the hallmark of originality!

For a white US artist arguably yes. He and Buddy Holly were the two huge influences on the embryonic UK 'pop' music scene.
The first guitar hero in the US was very definitely Chuck Berry ... as to the general public Holly and Elvis were not really guitar heroes as they Elvis at best bashed out rhythm on an acoustic and Holly didn't step forward and conventionally take a solo.

Oh if folks wonder what Hank Marvin is doing these days, he's is playing lots of Gypsy jazz ... I encountered him on a YouTube group for those learning the Django style repertoire. I believe he has his own trio now. The fact that he has taken this different direction at his time of life should be a bloody huge inspiration to all of us.

Tannin · August 2023

Elvis did nothing remotely new. He simply did what black artists had been doing for years. He was the first white artist to do that. Or at least the first prominent one. He has been memorably described as "The first white man to hump his guitar on stage and live."

Buddy Holly did indeed play solos. He played second guitar and lead vocal in the early to mid part of his career, but took over and played his own lead more as time went by.

stickyfiddle · August 2023

It's definitely Hank. I can barely understand any other suggestion of anyone else because it's so obvious

On the hero vs icon thing that's a great delineation. I'd suggest there have been loads of guitar heroes over the years, but only a tiny handful of genuine icons - the ones that not only play some all-time great guitar, but cross over into being recognisable by regular people:
- Keef
- Page
- Hendrix
- Brian May
- Angus Young
- SRV
- EVH
- Slash
- Kurt Cobain

I'm not sure I'd put anyone else up there for that sheer iconography thing. Maaaaybe Angus & Townshend?

chris78 · August 2023

Hank would be the first UK born guitar hero, but from what I know, British kids were listening to American music before the Beatles making Buddy Holly and Scotty Moore the reason most of them (including the Beatles) will have picked up a guitar. The Beatles themselves returned the compliment when they appeared on Ed Sullivan, meaning a whole generation of American kids demanded guitars from their parents. Springsteen always says his Mum got him a cheap acoustic the following day after seeing that.

OilCityPickups · August 2023

Tannin said:

Elvis did nothing remotely new. He simply did what black artists had been doing for years. He was the first white artist to do that. Or at least the first prominent one. He has been memorably described as "The first white man to hump his guitar on stage and live."

Buddy Holly did indeed play solos. He played second guitar and lead vocal in the early to mid part of his career, but took over and played his own lead more as time went by.

You will note note I said for a white artist - and of course the early white rock and roll industry and thus the artists they controlled - mercilessly ripped off people like Arthur 'Big Boy' Crudup and even produced heinous garbage like Pat Boone's bleached and sanitised version of Tutti Frutti - written and trail blazed by Little Richard.

My first love as a little kid was listening to Buddy Holly records that my aunt had (along with Chuck Berry stuff). Her boyfriend (who became my uncle) had been a 'teddy boy' and I grew up around rock and roll. Buddy died in the Febuary of the year I was born, and in the first years of my life his back catalogue was all over the radio that always seemed to be playing in my folks house.
Buddy and the Crickets defined what it was to to be 'complete and self contained band'. A band that could write and arrange their own material, and not be welded together by record companies to fill a niche. As such I wouldn't call Buddy a guitar hero, he falls much more into the guitar icon bracket.

maltingsaudio · August 2023

SpoonMan said:

Was apache the first guitar instrumental to be a big hit?

And the last?!

@SpoonMan what about Cavatina ?

Definitely Hank for me.

Bert Weedon needs honourable mention, because without play in a day the guitar boom possibly wouldn’t have happened.

Its an interesting discussion about other not so main stream players of the 60’s ,such as Jo Brown, Big Jim Sullivan ( thinks it’s fair to ask without him helping a young Jimmy Page where would we be?) and no mention of Albert Lee.

HAL9000 · August 2023

Not the first, but surely an honourable mention should go to Mick Green.

impmann · August 2023

I don’t think anyone who wasn’t alive in the late 1950s can really comment on the effect Hank had…
I used to sell red Strats to blokes in their 60s in the early 90s. The reason no other guitar in any other colour will do was Hank. The reason they played guitar? Hank.

Then there’s this… the reason Rory G played a Strat? Hank. The reason Brian May wanted a Vox? Hank. His playing influenced and inspired so much that came next. He was the guy everyone listened to and thought “how is he doing that?”

The most influential guitarist of his generation and a hero to those of an age… Hank.

Before him… hmmm, I’m not sure there was anyone that had that gravitas, that hero worship and that influence.

So, whilst the Clapton/Page/Blackmore (who actually predates Clapton and Page - he was in Joe Meek’s backing band in the early 60s) were the “gods” and pin ups of their generation, the earlier generation would all point to Hank.

Tannin · August 2023

OilCityPickups said:

Tannin said:

Elvis did nothing remotely new. He simply did what black artists had been doing for years. He was the first white artist to do that. Or at least the first prominent one. He has been memorably described as "The first white man to hump his guitar on stage and live."

Buddy Holly did indeed play solos. He played second guitar and lead vocal in the early to mid part of his career, but took over and played his own lead more as time went by.

You will note note I said for a white artist - and of course the early white rock and roll industry and thus the artists they controlled - mercilessly ripped off people like Arthur 'Big Boy' Crudup and even produced heinous garbage like Pat Boone's bleached and sanitised version of Tutti Frutti - written and trail blazed by Little Richard.

My first love as a little kid was listening to Buddy Holly records that my aunt had (along with Chuck Berry stuff). Her boyfriend (who became my uncle) had been a 'teddy boy' and I grew up around rock and roll. Buddy died in the Febuary of the year I was born, and in the first years of my life his back catalogue was all over the radio that always seemed to be playing in my folks house.
Buddy and the Crickets defined what it was to to be 'complete and self contained band'. A band that could write and arrange their own material, and not be welded together by record companies to fill a niche. As such I wouldn't call Buddy a guitar hero, he falls much more into the guitar icon bracket.

I agree with all of that. I came to Buddy very late - I never listened to much 50s stuff until .... oh ... a decade or so back I guess. But, having learned the error of my ways, I now know that his influence was enormous and continues to this day. His ability to craft a deceptively simple tune which is, once you actually understand it, far more subtle and powerful than is obvious to the casual eye is unmatched in modern times. The Beatles in their heyday were very good at it, but Buddy showed them how to do it years previously. To meet Buddy's equal in that regard, you'd have to go back to Haydn in the 16th Century. And when Buddy died at such a terribly young age - unlike many, through no fault of his own - it was music's greatest loss since the untimely death of Mozart in 1791.

Buddy was a genius, far in advance of any of his time or later. He was a very good guitarist and getting better as he went, he could sing well, and made a good band leader, but composition was what made him an all-time great.

(PS: I'm not seeing this distinction between "hero" and "icon", so I won't get into that.)

OilCityPickups · August 2023

Tannin said:

OilCityPickups said:

Tannin said:

Elvis did nothing remotely new. He simply did what black artists had been doing for years. He was the first white artist to do that. Or at least the first prominent one. He has been memorably described as "The first white man to hump his guitar on stage and live."

Buddy Holly did indeed play solos. He played second guitar and lead vocal in the early to mid part of his career, but took over and played his own lead more as time went by.

You will note note I said for a white artist - and of course the early white rock and roll industry and thus the artists they controlled - mercilessly ripped off people like Arthur 'Big Boy' Crudup and even produced heinous garbage like Pat Boone's bleached and sanitised version of Tutti Frutti - written and trail blazed by Little Richard.

My first love as a little kid was listening to Buddy Holly records that my aunt had (along with Chuck Berry stuff). Her boyfriend (who became my uncle) had been a 'teddy boy' and I grew up around rock and roll. Buddy died in the Febuary of the year I was born, and in the first years of my life his back catalogue was all over the radio that always seemed to be playing in my folks house.
Buddy and the Crickets defined what it was to to be 'complete and self contained band'. A band that could write and arrange their own material, and not be welded together by record companies to fill a niche. As such I wouldn't call Buddy a guitar hero, he falls much more into the guitar icon bracket.

I agree with all of that. I came to Buddy very late - I never listened to much 50s stuff until .... oh ... a decade or so back I guess. But, having learned the error of my ways, I now know that his influence was enormous and continues to this day. His ability to craft a deceptively simple tune which is, once you actually understand it, far more subtle and powerful than is obvious to the casual eye is unmatched in modern times. The Beatles in their heyday were very good at it, but Buddy showed them how to do it years previously. To meet Buddy's equal in that regard, you'd have to go back to Haydn in the 16th Century. And when Buddy died at such a terribly young age - unlike many, through no fault of his own - it was music's greatest loss since the untimely death of Mozart in 1791.

Buddy was a genius, far in advance of any of his time or later. He was a very good guitarist and getting better as he went, he could sing well, and made a good band leader, but composition was what made him an all-time great.

(PS: I'm not seeing this distinction between "hero" and "icon", so I won't get into that.)

In my estimation guitar hero is largely an object of hero worship and influence for other guitarists. A guitar Icon is someone who encompasses musicianship, creativity, performance and style/fashion-leading - not just for guitarists but in the eyes of the general public. Someone who takes the guitar ind moves it to a different place in not just the perception of other guitarists, but also in hoards of dedicated fans.
HAL9000 said:

Not the first, but surely an honourable mention should go to Mick Green.

Lovely man Mick, met him quite a few times - he was a massive influence on me - it's ironic that he didn't play the solo on the original single 'Shaking All Over' - that was Joe Moretti (below)

Image: https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT1h2JdxmKoJ8iIXeaPAHmNZRzeUruDOB0snTEhsnGD-cxB_3lq

roberty · August 2023

guitars4you said:

Was it Hank or Lonnie Donegan - Maybe Lonnie wasn't a guitar hero as such, but he was probably the first big influence to a new wave of pop that followed

Bloody love a bit of Lonnie. Absolute legend

BillDL · August 2023

OilCityPickups said:

In my estimation guitar hero is largely an object of hero worship and influence for other guitarists. A guitar Icon is someone who encompasses musicianship, creativity, performance and style/fashion-leading - not just for guitarists but in the eyes of the general public. Someone who takes the guitar and moves it to a different place in not just the perception of other guitarists, but also in hoards of dedicated fans.

That's very much how I would differentiate between hero and icon. Mention was made earlier that Elvis, although he was most certainly an icon in music history and was a guitar wielding strummer, wasn't a guitar hero. The audience cheered the most when he did his pelvic gyrations, flicked his thick mop of hair, and did his stiff-legged walk rather than when he played something on his guitar. It was a prop that was ancilliary to his singing and body moves. James Burton was the one that created the main guitar sound for Elvis.

Johnny Cash, on the other hand, used his guitar as a prop but in a much more obvious way by pulling it right up to his chest and playing with his picking hand from the side, and he got cheers from the audience when he slung it down at his side in that confident but lethargic way. Additionally his style of playing was quite different from predecessors and became "The Bakersfield Sound" that a lot of people copied. For Cash the guitar was equally important, if not more, than his singing, which makes him very much more a guitar hero. Obviously he didn't come as early as some of the other guitar heroes and was an American, but I was just using him as an example.

For Lonnie Donegan the guitar and the whole skiffle sound created by the guitar was just as important to his act as his stuttered fast cadence singing style.

OilCityPickups · August 2023

Further to the Joe Moretti thing ... this is fascinating
So many unsung session musicians ...

Litterick · August 2023

Ivor Mairants

From the Independent obituary: 'Mairants's technical manuals, embracing all guitar styles, met with varying degrees of success, but his flamenco tutor achieved world-wide fame, selling steadily over the years in various languages including Japanese. Yet well-meaning "experts" had advised him not to pursue the project; and the great Segovia even delivered a lofty snub with the words, "All my life I have striven to lift the guitar to higher musical levels, therefore I am not interested in a flamenco book and do not want to see it."'

OilCityPickups · August 2023

Of course the ultimate British guitar hero was Eddie ...

Image: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/tv/2020/04/02/TELEMMGLPICT000228952422_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqLeUJvOJqnV613e1NxllMSYIixnj0N-lTmS4HQcSqwKA.jpeg

... Large

Cols · August 2023

Just to add another vote to the avalanche - it’s clearly Hank Marvin. He was the first British musician to really bring the electric guitar forward as a lead instrument.

Jimbro66 · August 2023

Bert Weedon sold a lot of Play In A Day books, mainly to parents, but Bert just wasn’t considered cool by youngsters at that time. He looked like someone’s dad. Here’s his version of Apache

https://youtu.be/BTtEPmorY2I?si=2NwKuaqv83G5ZFHN

and here’s the Shadows before they were sanitised by management. Their influence was huge and Hank was the idol. Definitely the first British guitar hero despite other very good players coming before him. Everyone wanted a red Strat and a Vox amp. Hank clones were seen in every club and dance hall across the country.

https://youtu.be/7TwULx_wDiI?si=S_cAu6Hv03SKzbZl

guitarjack66 · August 2023

I'd say that based on the older guitarists still playing today Hank Marvin is a big favourite. Hank is in his 80s and his original 'fans' are not much younger. Burt Weedon seems to be quoted more for instruction than anything else I have heard from older 'stars' of the 60s and 70s.

Stuckfast · August 2023

Possibly a year or two behind Hank, but Davy Graham must be worth a mention.

WYNIR0 · August 2023

Has to be Hank from my perspective

GrahamG · September 2023

I started "playing" guitar in the mid '50's,i suppose Hank must be the player that was probably the 1st british Guitar "hero" ,but my 1st Brit hero was Mick Green, he was the 1st player i thought compared to the yanks, (James Burton,Scotty Moore,Cliff Gallup etc,)Mick was very like James Burton in his Ricky Nelson days.
Have to jump in when there's a chance to reminisce , even if i'm wrong again.

Teflon · September 2023

EricTheWeary said:

Bert had a guitar instrumental hit before The Shadows and a minor hit with Apache before they recorded it. So I think he beat Hank to this......

Not quite. Bert Weedon recorded Apache before The Shadows, but it wasn't released until after The Shads version made the charts.

Teflon · September 2023

Has to be Hank, without a shadow of a doubt (see what I did there?)

Re the comments on Lonnie Donegan, I would agree that he was a major influence on just about every UK musician who came after him (including Hank and the rest of The Shadows) but I don't believe he was seen as a guitar hero in particular.

Useless bit of trivia: whilst still at school in Newcastle, Hank & Bruce went to see Lonnie in concert. Afterwards, they waited at the stage door, and when Lonnie emerged, Bruce asked him for an autograph. Lonnie replied "Fuck off son, I'm in a hurry"

Cliff

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The first UK guitar hero…..?

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