What FRFR are you using? And how happy are you with it?

NelsonP · August 2023

For me it's a Laney IRT-X. Small, versatile, very portable sounds great. 8" speaker and overall output is perhaps too small for band work, but I don't use it for that anyway. Lots of additional features, great eq, including a 4 x 12 emulation, an aux in and fx loop. Can also be used as an extension cab in between an amp and speaker for wet/dry.

Overall 9 out of 10.

mrkb · August 2023

I’ve got two Atomic CLRs which are great sounding. They are wedge shaped, but can be pole mounted or run on their side. Have recently got a EV PXM-12MP which is similar but a bit smaller and lighter, so might sell a CLR on.

nero1701 · August 2023

I used the Laney Frfr briefly and was quite disappointed. It felt hollow and made lots of stuff sound a bit video gamey.
I have a pair of kemper kones and a power amp now and it feels much more accurate.

Roland · August 2023

I’ve got a powered Matrix Q12. They’re no longer available, or I might have bought a second.

The Q12 is rectangular. I’ve made a wooden cradle so that it sits on the floor like a monitor. I use it that way at home, rehearsal, and gigs.

The sound is good in you’re off axis, but the tweeter is a bit loud if it’s pointing directly at you.

drwiddly · August 2023

My first foray into FRFR was a Yamaha DXR10, a good speaker but got a bit lost in a band mix. I could also hear a slight quack from the tweeter which wasn't right on guitar. I then took a chance on a B stock Redsound LG-12 and it blew me away. I run two of them now and I'm really happy with them.

longshins · August 2023

I had two of the Headrush fr108 speakers and I didn’t like them, they couldn’t handle any low end and weren’t all that loud, I now just put my modeller into the input of a Katana 100 and it sounds much better to me.

rich75 · August 2023

I use a Yamaha DXR10 for both my Helix and keyboard and I’m really happy with it. I had to spend a while getting the high cut dialled in right on the Helix but since doing that everything has sounded great. It easily holds its own alongside a live acoustic drum kit with plenty of power to spare. Our other guitarist also has a Helix and DXR10.

Our bass player puts his Helix through a Headrush FR112. The low end in that is possibly a bit hyped but it works well for bass. Having said that he would prefer something a bit more portable and is thinking of also getting a DXR10.

Musicwolf · August 2023

At home I'm using Neumann KH80s or AKG K702 headphones. Live we have two live guitars (now both using full-fat Helix) and vocals plus backing tracks all into a pair of Yamaha DXR12s, for FoH, and monitoring via a pair of Adam A5 studio monitors on head height stands (plus a Behringer B205D on a mic stand for the singer).

I've previously used a single Alto TS212 with either a Kemper or a Helix to act as a backline when playing in a full band.

bloodandtears · August 2023

Laney LFR112 for my Helix Floor.. solid build, handy kick back stand, not overly heavy (but not light).. sounds perfectly fine for my ears..

Voxman · August 2023

longshins said:

I had two of the Headrush fr108 speakers and I didn’t like them, they couldn’t handle any low end and weren’t all that loud, I now just put my modeller into the input of a Katana 100 and it sounds much better to me.

Astonishing as my experience is the exact opposite. I have two and they have loads of bottom end and are so loud I only need one for gigging. I gig with my Vox Tonelab LE and SE and they sound great through the 108s as does my Pod Go.

paul_xt · August 2023

Im using the Laney LFR212.

I went to Laney HQ and tried both the 112 and the 212 - the 212 sounded sweeter to me. Incredibly happy with it, great bit of kit.

bloodandtears · August 2023

paul_xt said:

Im using the Laney LFR212.

I went to Laney HQ and tried both the 112 and the 212 - the 212 sounded sweeter to me. Incredibly happy with it, great bit of kit.

I've had both but the weight of the 212 was a hindrance for gigging.

Nerine · August 2023

Have been happily using a Yamaha DXR10 MkII. Plenty of power and clarity. Whether I'd buy one again, I don't know. It has bags of power, and sounds great, but I think having dedicated tweeters in any of these solutions can be jarring and makes dialling in the top end more difficult than it needs to be. I preferred the sound of a pair of Yamaha DHR12M's that happened to be at my house for a while. Believe they are coaxial, though, so maybe the lack of separation between the two helps.

That said, I'm gonna go to separate power amp and guitar cab, I think. I prefer the sound of guitar speakers and I think that's where the battle is won or lost with modelling.

I'd rather listen to a guitar cab than an FRFR monitor with an IR of that cab. It seems counter intuitive to me, otherwise. Almost like being in the room with the Mona Lisa and deciding to look at it through a camera on your phone instead.

A 1x12 cab isn't taking up a lot more real estate than some of the FRFR solutions, anyway.

I'm starting to form the opinion that IRs are the weak link in the modelling ecosystem.

Running any of the amp models without IRs or cab blocks etc into the FX return of my Friedman combo makes any of the models sound like an amp in the room, because it effectively is.

Everything seems a little more dynamic like this, too. I think IRs are a bit dynamically static and this part in the chain is a bit of a weak one, IMO.

NelsonP · August 2023

Nerine said:

Have been happily using a Yamaha DXR10 MkII. Plenty of power and clarity. Whether I'd buy one again, I don't know. It has bags of power, and sounds great, but I think having dedicated tweeters in any of these solutions can be jarring and makes dialling in the top end more difficult than it needs to be. I preferred the sound of a pair of Yamaha DHR12M's that happened to be at my house for a while. Believe they are coaxial, though, so maybe the lack of separation between the two helps.

That said, I'm gonna go to separate power amp and guitar cab, I think. I prefer the sound of guitar speakers and I think that's where the battle is won or lost with modelling.

I'd rather listen to a guitar cab than an FRFR monitor with an IR of that cab. It seems counter intuitive to me, otherwise. Almost like being in the room with the Mona Lisa and deciding to look at it through a camera on your phone instead.

A 1x12 cab isn't taking up a lot more real estate than some of the FRFR solutions, anyway.

I'm starting to form the opinion that IRs are the weak link in the modelling ecosystem.

Running any of the amp models without IRs or cab blocks etc into the FX return of my Friedman combo makes any of the models sound like an amp in the room, because it effectively is.

Everything seems a little more dynamic like this, too. I think IRs are a bit dynamically static and this part in the chain is a bit of a weak one, IMO.

Very good points. Agree 100%, except that if you are running your modeller into a combo the you lose the ability to flip between a Fender to a vox to a Marshall since your stuck with the friedman power amp, the same (creamback?) speaker and 1x12 cab.

Nerine · August 2023

NelsonP said:

Nerine said:

Have been happily using a Yamaha DXR10 MkII. Plenty of power and clarity. Whether I'd buy one again, I don't know. It has bags of power, and sounds great, but I think having dedicated tweeters in any of these solutions can be jarring and makes dialling in the top end more difficult than it needs to be. I preferred the sound of a pair of Yamaha DHR12M's that happened to be at my house for a while. Believe they are coaxial, though, so maybe the lack of separation between the two helps.

That said, I'm gonna go to separate power amp and guitar cab, I think. I prefer the sound of guitar speakers and I think that's where the battle is won or lost with modelling.

I'd rather listen to a guitar cab than an FRFR monitor with an IR of that cab. It seems counter intuitive to me, otherwise. Almost like being in the room with the Mona Lisa and deciding to look at it through a camera on your phone instead.

A 1x12 cab isn't taking up a lot more real estate than some of the FRFR solutions, anyway.

I'm starting to form the opinion that IRs are the weak link in the modelling ecosystem.

Running any of the amp models without IRs or cab blocks etc into the FX return of my Friedman combo makes any of the models sound like an amp in the room, because it effectively is.

Everything seems a little more dynamic like this, too. I think IRs are a bit dynamically static and this part in the chain is a bit of a weak one, IMO.

Very good points. Agree 100%, except that if you are running your modeller into a combo the you lose the ability to flip between a Fender to a vox to a Marshall since your stuck with the friedman power amp, the same (creamback?) speaker and 1x12 cab.

I agree to a point, although there's no way I'm making that drastic a tonal change during a song.

I think this is actually where a lot of modelling users go wrong. They think they "need" a Fender clean verse, Vox mid gain bridge and Marshall crunch chorus all in the same patch "because tone" but personally, I have pretty much everything setup based around one core sound or a very similar variation of one if I utilise amp channel switching in a preset. I'll switch from a Diezel channel 2 to a Diezel channel 3, but more rarely do the cliched Fender clean to Marshall Crunch thing. It's far less likely to sound wonky in a mix at points or get lost or whatever if a manageable amount of frequency responses is used.

If I want to try a different amp, I'll change the whole shebang to the new amp and save it to a new preset. I also will not switch between presets at gigs. I stay on the same one.

Consistency is key for me.

Everyone else's mileage may vary, of course.

onyir · August 2023

I have been gigging with an Atomic CLR for a few years now and it has been great. Plenty of volumen and great consistency of the sound when you move to the sides thanks to the coaxial speaker approach.

fretmeister · August 2023

Nerine said:

NelsonP said:

Nerine said:

Have been happily using a Yamaha DXR10 MkII. Plenty of power and clarity. Whether I'd buy one again, I don't know. It has bags of power, and sounds great, but I think having dedicated tweeters in any of these solutions can be jarring and makes dialling in the top end more difficult than it needs to be. I preferred the sound of a pair of Yamaha DHR12M's that happened to be at my house for a while. Believe they are coaxial, though, so maybe the lack of separation between the two helps.

That said, I'm gonna go to separate power amp and guitar cab, I think. I prefer the sound of guitar speakers and I think that's where the battle is won or lost with modelling.

I'd rather listen to a guitar cab than an FRFR monitor with an IR of that cab. It seems counter intuitive to me, otherwise. Almost like being in the room with the Mona Lisa and deciding to look at it through a camera on your phone instead.

A 1x12 cab isn't taking up a lot more real estate than some of the FRFR solutions, anyway.

I'm starting to form the opinion that IRs are the weak link in the modelling ecosystem.

Running any of the amp models without IRs or cab blocks etc into the FX return of my Friedman combo makes any of the models sound like an amp in the room, because it effectively is.

Everything seems a little more dynamic like this, too. I think IRs are a bit dynamically static and this part in the chain is a bit of a weak one, IMO.

Very good points. Agree 100%, except that if you are running your modeller into a combo the you lose the ability to flip between a Fender to a vox to a Marshall since your stuck with the friedman power amp, the same (creamback?) speaker and 1x12 cab.

I agree to a point, although there's no way I'm making that drastic a tonal change during a song.

I think this is actually where a lot of modelling users go wrong. They think they "need" a Fender clean verse, Vox mid gain bridge and Marshall crunch chorus all in the same patch "because tone" but personally, I have pretty much everything setup based around one core sound or a very similar variation of one if I utilise amp channel switching in a preset. I'll switch from a Diezel channel 2 to a Diezel channel 3, but more rarely do the cliched Fender clean to Marshall Crunch thing. It's far less likely to sound wonky in a mix at points or get lost or whatever if a manageable amount of frequency responses is used.

If I want to try a different amp, I'll change the whole shebang to the new amp and save it to a new preset. I also will not switch between presets at gigs. I stay on the same one.

Consistency is key for me.

Everyone else's mileage may vary, of course.

This is my take on it too

I use FRFR but I often use the same IR for clean and dirty tones, or at least another IR from the same cab files so it is really only the difference in mic placement for clean and dirty.

Sometimes I think the approach of swapping from a Jazz Chorus to a boosted Recto is a bit jarring, no matter how well Hetfield did it.

Maybe it is because my first 30 years of gigging was just an amp and some pedals, but I usually build my patches with the same thing in mind. While there is no within-amp channel switching in Helix using 2 different Marshall amps effectively as different voiced but still Marshall channels does that job well.

I really like the latest Helix update with the new cabs / IRs and I'm using them a lot, but if not - it's Celestion's own IR of the G12-65 for almost everything. It's a great sounding speaker, and as it happens it's my favourite in real life too.

NelsonP · September 2023

I disagree. I've seen quite a few rig rundowns where people A/B between different amps. E.g. Simon Neil runs fenders and marshalls, Chris Shiflett runs vox and friedman, Joe bonamassa uses a ton of different amps on stage etc.

Being able to replicate that, relatively cheaply and much more conveniently is a huge benefit. But it needs FRFR or direct to the desk.

p90fool · September 2023

Nerine said:

Have been happily using a Yamaha DXR10 MkII. Plenty of power and clarity. Whether I'd buy one again, I don't know. It has bags of power, and sounds great, but I think having dedicated tweeters in any of these solutions can be jarring and makes dialling in the top end more difficult than it needs to be. I preferred the sound of a pair of Yamaha DHR12M's that happened to be at my house for a while. Believe they are coaxial, though, so maybe the lack of separation between the two helps.

That said, I'm gonna go to separate power amp and guitar cab, I think. I prefer the sound of guitar speakers and I think that's where the battle is won or lost with modelling.

I'd rather listen to a guitar cab than an FRFR monitor with an IR of that cab. It seems counter intuitive to me, otherwise. Almost like being in the room with the Mona Lisa and deciding to look at it through a camera on your phone instead.

A 1x12 cab isn't taking up a lot more real estate than some of the FRFR solutions, anyway.

I'm starting to form the opinion that IRs are the weak link in the modelling ecosystem.

Running any of the amp models without IRs or cab blocks etc into the FX return of my Friedman combo makes any of the models sound like an amp in the room, because it effectively is.

Everything seems a little more dynamic like this, too. I think IRs are a bit dynamically static and this part in the chain is a bit of a weak one, IMO.

I totally get that and am starting to get excellent results from my Pod Go into a guitar cab, but for me the whole point of digital modelling is the ability to go direct to desk and/or completely amp-less, so the cab modelling issue still needs to be addressed.

I've spent hours today with a guitar half stack and a JBL PA, A/B-ing the two setups in an attempt to get them to sound identical, and I'm getting fairly close, finally. I have the Amp Out on the POD set pre-cab sim, obviously.

Voxman · September 2023

p90fool said:

I totally get that and am starting to get excellent results from my Pod Go into a guitar cab, but for me the whole point of digital modelling is the ability to go direct to desk and/or completely amp-less, so the cab modelling issue still needs to be addressed.

This exactly for me too and I'm hoping that v1.50 of Pod Go will considerably up the ante sonically as it should be getting the new cab engine and IR's that Helix got in v3.50. No idea when it will be ready (Line 6 are very tight lipped) but as it's been 13 mths since Pod Go v1.40, fingers crossed it won't be too much longer now.

p90fool · September 2023

I'm not too worried about the update tbh, there's enough tweakability for me between mic choice and distance on the cab models to get something very usable without weird spikes or frequency gaps.

I'm really not bothered about IRs live, I never get enough full volume sound check time to audition them.

willo · September 2023

fretmeister said: Maybe it is because my first 30 years of gigging was just an amp and some pedals, but I usually build my patches with the same thing in mind. While there is no within-amp channel switching in Helix using 2 different Marshall amps effectively as different voiced but still Marshall channels does that job well.

I agree. I do switch between presets in a gig, because of different FX/DSP limits but also, mostly because I make heavy use of Snapshots. I'll still build everything over a consistent base amp tone - at most, a combination of the clean and dirty models within the Helix (i.e. Placater Clean, Placater Dirty).

Also, one of my favourite Helix things is assigning individual amp parameters to switches/snapshots. Opens up the whole two-channel-within-the-same-preset thing to some degree.

bloodandtears · September 2023

willo said:

fretmeister said: Maybe it is because my first 30 years of gigging was just an amp and some pedals, but I usually build my patches with the same thing in mind. While there is no within-amp channel switching in Helix using 2 different Marshall amps effectively as different voiced but still Marshall channels does that job well.

I agree. I do switch between presets in a gig, because of different FX/DSP limits but also, mostly because I make heavy use of Snapshots. I'll still build everything over a consistent base amp tone - at most, a combination of the clean and dirty models within the Helix (i.e. Placater Clean, Placater Dirty).

Also, one of my favourite Helix things is assigning individual amp parameters to switches/snapshots. Opens up the whole two-channel-within-the-same-preset thing to some degree.

I've tried to do something similar with the Pod Go, but never seem to get a good crunch to clean transition without a clunking noise when using notoriously dirty amps; I find I have to use a clean amp and a dirt pedal..

DefaultM · September 2023

I use my axe fx 2 with Adam a7x monitors. I like them.

Stinkfoot · October 2023

I've been using my Helix (various types LT, Stomp etc) through a single Headrush FR108 for over a year now and I think it's great. I use it for our smaller gigs where my valve amp would just be too much for the front rows and it's a perfect solution for me. I play in both a 9 and a 10-piece band and it never struggles to keep up from a volume point of view. Just have it at my feet pointing up at me.
It has way more bass then you'd expect and now I'm used to it I find it pretty easy to dial in my presets with it. I've seen video clips back from gigs we've done and the out front sound seems to translate pretty well to what I'm hearing through it on stage so I'm pretty confident with it.

Having said that, I recently tried a Powercab and I thought it was excellent. But it offered something so similar to my valve amp as far as an audience-facing solution goes that I just thought 'what's the point?' and returned it. If I go full-circle for the 50th time and back to all modelling for every gig then I'd definitely consider a Powercab again. Would be interested to see how the new Fender Tonemasters compare too.

I was a very early Helix/FRFR adopter and I've learned to get past that 5mins of A/B comparison next to a valve amp where you might feel a tad disappointed. In some regards I prefer my digital rigs as they're always so consistent, flexible and just sound great to me. And in a band mix FOH I'm sure punters don't know the difference. We have quite a few knowledgeable/muso punters and I've probably had just as many, if not more tone compliments through my Helix rig than through my amps.

barnsleyboy · October 2023

Helix floor into Matrix GT1000 (2U) rack power amp powering 2 x Matrix FR12P for that glorious stereo sound.

The Matrix stuff is/ was fantastic. I think the company is currently in "hibernation" until supply issues improve. I hope they make it back into the marketplace - nothing but praise for their products and customer service.

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What FRFR are you using? And how happy are you with it?

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