Kemper vs Helix vs Quad Cortex

Starplayer91 · August 2023

Does anyone have any experience with either or all of these units?

Kemper is an established unit but is old tech compared to the Quad Cortex and Helix

Watched all the Youtube videos but interested to hear peoples first hand experiences.

Jonathanthomas83 · August 2023

I wouldn't say Kemper is old tech. Especially not against the Helix. The new Liquid Profile stuff, although I've not tried it, should, by all accounts, make it fairly new-tech! Seems to be getting good reviews online too. I loved my old Kemper and would love another one day.

Does really depend on your preference though, profiling Vs. modelling OR a snapshot of an amp+cab+mic at a given moment Vs. whatever signal chain you fancy putting together today.

siremoon · August 2023

I still have the Helix I bought in January 2016 from, iirc, the very first UK batch. It, and the Native plug-in which I also have, continue to serve me very well. There have been a succession of firmware upgrades over the years which have improved it enormously. £ for £ probably the best piece of gear I've ever had and if it broke I'd buy another without hesitation. There are still some who turn their noses up because it's Line 6 or who think the terrible factory presets define it but I've got it to produce a multitude of tones I like.

I have no experience of either the quad cortex or kemper so only have an onlookers opinion. Kemper strikes me as being a little different with its profiling etc and I view it as a kind of boutique option to Helix's more "chain store" offering. My impression of the quad cortex is that it promised plenty and came up short.

In the end you pays your money and takes your choice.

Musicwolf · August 2023

I've owned my Kemper (19" rack, non-powered) for eight years now, I've had my Helix for four or five. Thanks to all the free updates both are better now than when I bought them.

Kemper

To my ears it sounds better, or at least more like a real amplifier mic'd up.

The PC Editor has improved greatly over the years, but it's still a bit quirky.

I have the foot controller but the layout is a little cramped (but it is built like a brick outhouse).

Effects are fine, but slightly limited.

Helix

Very flexible.

Dual amp paths.

Tons of usable effects.

Can load IR's (I use acoustic guitar sims live)

You can reconfigure the pedal layout, plus it has scribble strips / coloured rings.

You can use it as a MIDI controller.

The Editor is a breeze but also very easy to operate from the unit itself.

I use the Helix live and the Kemper in the studio. If either went down I'd replace it, even though I could manage with just one of them.

willo · August 2023

One thing that caught me out is how not all features are common to all units. I have a Helix, so that's my reference point, but it surprised me to find out that the Kemper only got audio interface capabilities earlier this year. While features like Snapshots are implemented differently in Fractal. I suppose the devil is in the detail.

Will say that I'm very happy with the Helix, and in particular the ongoing support, customer engagement and user interface for the app. It seems very user focused.

Fiftyshadesofjay · August 2023

I posted my thoughts a while ago but still relevant-

“ Long time Kemper user and recent QC user here, just thought I’d share my thoughts after using the QC for a year. I’ve been gigging regularly with the QC but recently traded it for a Kemper Rack and Remote.

First off, wow, I remember the Kemper sounding great but it really is a fantastic sounding thing. I use the M Britt profiles mainly and for me they sound better than anything in the QC. I’d sort of convinced myself the QC sounded bigger and better but that’s not actually the case, it’s possibly the opposite.

Secondly I’m a big effects user and Kemper also does this better. Reverbs and Delays are up there with the best in Kemper and this was my biggest issue with the QC. Delays especially were really bad, they were always too smeared in amongst the amp tone, as if they were ducking automatically.

Form factor and live use. This is very subjective but I didn’t like having the QC on the floor. We predominately play weddings and corporate functions and there’s no end of drunk idiots trying to grab microphones, spilling drinks and falling over our gear. It just makes more sense to have something racked out of harms way. I dread to think what a nightmare I was when attended these sort of things as a punter!

There’s also a few quality of life bonuses with the Kemper such as instant switching, instant tuner, the ability to load up the next song while still playing the older one, the ability to properly re-order songs and let’s not forget the editor (which to be fair is still a bit buggy on the Kemper).

I also think it’s still true the QC isn’t ready, the whole recent debacle over the promised plug-in support certainly pushed me over the edge, that was pretty unacceptable.

But ultimately to those thinking Kemper is past it and old tech, in many ways it’s a far more capable unit than the shiniest new thing and there’s something to be said for how well though out it is.”

As far as the Helix goes, I’ve never got the amps to really work for me but the full fat version is an incredible piece of gear and works in so many situations. If the amps sounded as good as the Kemper to me it’d be a no brainer.

Musicwolf · August 2023

For anyone who's bothered, I did some tests to compare the snapshot switch speed of both the Kemper and the Helix.

I should point out that this is not comparing apples with apples since the Kemper 'slots' contain different profiles whereas the Helix are just different configurations of the same layout. In practice though, this is what you have to work with in a gig situation.

I triggered the switch via MIDI so that I had a reference point.

Helix switch speed 20 msec, Kemper 150 msec.

In most cases I could live with the slower speed, by slightly anticipating the change, but I do have at least one number in the set where I do need faster switching between an acoustic IR and a conventional amp.

nero1701 · August 2023

I've owned or still own in some cases

Axe FX 2:Sold Great unit, great sounds..Too much faf

FM3:Sold Great unit, Lacks footswitches, great sounds, great editor...Too much faf

Eleven Rack: No fucking comment

Quad Cortex, Bought as I really liked my Tone King and Soldano Plug ins, failed to deliver in almost every way of the 4 units I know of personally (3 mates and my own) 2 Have bricked (Not mine).

Kemper Rack and seperate power amp, Never fails to put a smile on the face, feels like and behaves like an amp. 1000's of profiles available, Editor has a few more steps to improve. remotes easy to program.

I also bought a couple of the Kemper Kones and have a 2x12 with them in, I think its a little novelty tbh, but I have them "imprinted" as greenbacks and think they sound good.

Fiftyshadesofjay · August 2023

Musicwolf said:

For anyone who's bothered, I did some tests to compare the snapshot switch speed of both the Kemper and the Helix.

I should point out that this is not comparing apples with apples since the Kemper 'slots' contain different profiles whereas the Helix are just different configurations of the same layout. In practice though, this is what you have to work with in a gig situation.

I triggered the switch via MIDI so that I had a reference point.

Helix switch speed 20 msec, Kemper 150 msec.

In most cases I could live with the slower speed, by slightly anticipating the change, but I do have at least one number in the set where I do need faster switching between an acoustic IR and a conventional amp.

Interesting, I’ve never noticed any perceivable latency on either of the units. I think the Kemper is even able to cross fade performances? It may well be faster via the remote rather than midi.

fretmeister · August 2023

I went Helix at launch and never regretted it.

That being said, I don’t think you can go wrong with any of them really. They all sound a little different as the individual amps they modelled are different. Every plexi sounds different after all.

Subjective preference really.

However, I won’t buy any unit with a cooling fan as I have a pathological hatred of fan noise. So no Fractals for me.

Musicwolf · August 2023

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

Musicwolf said:

For anyone who's bothered, I did some tests to compare the snapshot switch speed of both the Kemper and the Helix.

I should point out that this is not comparing apples with apples since the Kemper 'slots' contain different profiles whereas the Helix are just different configurations of the same layout. In practice though, this is what you have to work with in a gig situation.

I triggered the switch via MIDI so that I had a reference point.

Helix switch speed 20 msec, Kemper 150 msec.

In most cases I could live with the slower speed, by slightly anticipating the change, but I do have at least one number in the set where I do need faster switching between an acoustic IR and a conventional amp.

Interesting, I’ve never noticed any perceivable latency on either of the units. I think the Kemper is even able to cross fade performances? It may well be faster via the remote rather than midi.

For 99% of applications the Kemper switching is fast enough and I've gigged it quite happily. We perform with a click track / backing so I now do all of my Helix swiching via MIDI (as well as running the light show / mixer scenes and mutes etc). I did think about switching back to the Kemper (probably out of boredom) but in addition to the switch problem on one song there was also the fact that Kemper doesn't do MIDI over USB so I'd need to carry a USB > MIDI device, at which point I thought 'why am I doing this when the Helix is fine?'

Fiftyshadesofjay · August 2023

Musicwolf said:

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

Musicwolf said:

For anyone who's bothered, I did some tests to compare the snapshot switch speed of both the Kemper and the Helix.

I should point out that this is not comparing apples with apples since the Kemper 'slots' contain different profiles whereas the Helix are just different configurations of the same layout. In practice though, this is what you have to work with in a gig situation.

I triggered the switch via MIDI so that I had a reference point.

Helix switch speed 20 msec, Kemper 150 msec.

In most cases I could live with the slower speed, by slightly anticipating the change, but I do have at least one number in the set where I do need faster switching between an acoustic IR and a conventional amp.

Interesting, I’ve never noticed any perceivable latency on either of the units. I think the Kemper is even able to cross fade performances? It may well be faster via the remote rather than midi.

For 99% of applications the Kemper switching is fast enough and I've gigged it quite happily. We perform with a click track / backing so I now do all of my Helix swiching via MIDI (as well as running the light show / mixer scenes and mutes etc). I did think about switching back to the Kemper (probably out of boredom) but in addition to the switch problem on one song there was also the fact that Kemper doesn't do MIDI over USB so I'd need to carry a USB > MIDI device, at which point I thought 'why am I doing this when the Helix is fine?'

That’s fair, Helix is the absolute king for midi for sure.

Sporky · August 2023

It's also worth considering user interface.

They all, I'm sure, sound decent. Having an interface you get on with is critical to getting to the sounds you want.

drwiddly · August 2023

I own/have owned a ton of modellers and other digital units over the years. Currently I have a Digitech GSP1101, Axe FX Ultra, Axe FX 2, Kemper rack, Helix rack and an Amplifire 3.

I gig all of these now again and they're all capable of sounding good. As has been said, the best sounding is the Kemper closely followed by the Axe FX 2. The Helix has the best interface and editor but lacks a little in the tone department compared to those two and even the Ultra. The GSP1101 is a little Swiss Army knife and I take it out as back up for the Kemper, Helix and Ultra. The Amplifire is back up for the Axe 2.

The Amplifire is an odd one. It needs some good IR's and the fx are a pain to dial in but the amp models are very good and with a fair bit of tweaking it can sound great. If you come from a HX Stomp, you will be tearing your hair out after 20 minutes though

In my experience any of these units can sound really good but you need good IR's, decent FRFR speakers and, most importantly, learn how to tweak the EQ.

Lestratcaster · August 2023

Owned my Kemper since May 2020 and love it. Sounds very real amp wise. Won't ever beat an actual tube amp through a 4x12 but for home playing close enough. Still sounds good through a speaker cab, though I've grown used to using it direct now. The output options are useful for recording and stuff.

Fairly easy to use and I like how you can create performances using different amps for different sounds. I'm sure you can do this with the other ones too though. Haven't played either before to comment.

BGG · August 2023

Bought a used Helix, couldn’t get my head around it. Everyone states how user friendly it is, I didn’t find that at all. Couldn’t get a decent tone out of it , my fault, totally user error. A have lots of friends gigging them and they sound killer.

Sold it and got a Kemper Power rack used, loved it from plugging in. Very good sounding amps, not too bad to edit and gigged it for two years with cabs, then later just direct to PA.
Got intrigued by the Quad Cortex, so bought one last year. Tone wise it’s great, and especially after last weeks update, the Matchless and Victory amps are awesome. Love the smaller footprint, menus are fantastic and it’s so easy to edit. No idea why folk are pushing for the desktop software ? I couldn’t care less.

I run it through a Laney LFR 112 and I couldn’t be happier.

I’ll be selling the Kemper.

fnpt · August 2023

I went with a Tonex pedal into the loop of a Boss GT1000 core with midi interconnectivity. Takes a while to get used to the GT's interface but its a great combination of the Tonex amp sounds and the GT's fx. Press bank up or down on the GT and the midi command is seamless into the Tonex to the corresponding amp profile.

A Hotone switch is also on its way for additional fx control. All in all, around €1.000 for a compact great sounding rig. Perfect for home use.

Edit: actually closer to €1.200 including Tonex profiles from the Studio Rats and Amalgam Studios.

Nerine · August 2023

I’m surprised so little mention of the Fractal options. They’re the best IMO.

Roland · August 2023

The OP didn’t ask about Fractal. I assumed that was a budgetary consideration. It won’t be any surprise that I put it head and shoulders above the others, not just for FX quality, but for the ability to control everything for ease of use when playing. However you need to be prepared to learn how to exercise this control. I can understand why some people decide that it’s too complicated for their needs.

Nerine · August 2023

Roland said:

The OP didn’t ask about Fractal. I assumed that was a budgetary consideration. It won’t be any surprise that I put it head and shoulders above the others, not just for FX quality, but for the ability to control everything for ease of use when playing. However you need to be prepared to learn how to exercise this control. I can understand why some people decide that it’s too complicated for their needs.

Perhaps, but a Quad Cortex isn't what you'd call "cheap" and you could probably get into the Fractal ecosystem if you shopped around at that sort of money.

PolarityMan · August 2023

No experience of the QC but we tracked an album through a kemper and it sounded great, really really good amp tones. I have helix for live and it is *fine* I guess. Amps are pretty decent, the original stock cabs were bullshit so using your own IR's really makes the amp models sound a lot better although still not on par with kemper or top VSTs for me. Effects are generally pretty decent but delay is very hard to tweak just right to get the exact number of repeats you want. I think their decay curves could be too aggressive. The whammy is also a bit polite and weird sounding. Finally its a massive chunk.

However despite all those bad points it is massively flexible in terms of I/O and signal path routing, it does sound easily "good enough" especially in a live setting. The native plugin means that you can tweak presets without the unit then load them on alter which is always handy. The scribble strips and coloured lighting on the buttons are fantastic for minimising mis-stomps. They a re still adding new models through firmware upgrades which is great, the new cabs for instance are much ebtter than the original ones.

Personally I wouldnt go to a rack form factor so I think it still wins out as best overall unit but I would love it to be maybe 3/4s of the size and to sort out the bloody delays.

octatonic · August 2023

Have played with the QC, sold a Helix, currently own a Kemper, Axe FX II and an FM9.

I prefer the Fractal approach.
Kemper's management app is weird, as is the architecture of the device.
I don't find it intuitive at all.

Helix was fine but doesn't sound nearly as good as the FM9 and is a larger footprint on stage.

QC wasn't properly finished when I used it, maybe it has changed by now but I won't beta test products that I buy.

Roland · August 2023

Nerine said:
… a Quad Cortex isn't what you'd call "cheap" and you could probably get into the Fractal ecosystem if you shopped around at that sort of money.

Agreed. I think the deciding factor here should not be the sound, or even the initial cost, but how the OP intends to use the device.

Starplayer91 · August 2023

Warming to the Kemper so far but will need to A B it with the Helix in the shop. I think the Helix and QC have the edge on user interface but Kemper seems to have the edge on sound which, is what it's all about.

Does anyone have experience with the desktop editor for Kemper? I'm thinking of the stage plus a power amp as it's the cheapest option and I can be comfortable dialing in sounds at my desk and use the stage for practicality of playing.

Musicwolf · September 2023

Starplayer91 said:

Does anyone have experience with the desktop editor for Kemper? I'm thinking of the stage plus a power amp as it's the cheapest option and I can be comfortable dialing in sounds at my desk and use the stage for practicality of playing.

Using the desktop editor is my modus operandi and, for dialing in sounds and setting up effects chains, it is more than adequate. When it comes to setting up different patches in Performance Mode I get slightly frustrated. Now this in a combination of the editor being less intuitive than my Helix editor and the fact that I'm not using the Kemper for live work and hence I'm not as familiar with it as I am the Helix. I dare say that if I moved over to using the Kemper live then, within half I day, I'd be flying around without problems. As it stands there's every chance that I'll have to repeat steps because I haven't saved something at the right moment or some other such operating glitch. I should say that the errors are all human in nature, the software itself isn't unstable.

crunchman · September 2023

I have Kemper and QC.

I think I prefer the amp tones on the Kemper, but the form factor of the QC makes it a lot easier for live use. That's not to say the QC amp tones are bad. They are very good, but I think the Kemper ones are marginally better.

The QC is at an earlier stage of it's life cycle. They have sent me an email about a beta of desktop software to control it being released next week. The Kemper was similar initially. Rig Manager had very limited functionality. It took them quite a while to launch the remote, so I've still got a Behringer FCB101 lying around. Nobody really remembers that now.

Most of the time, I leave my Kemper plugged into my PC with studio monitors for practice and recording, and use the QC live.

grappagreen · September 2023

Kemper user for many years and use with a powered Kabinet. Kemper just keeps getting better and looking forward to hearing the LP stuff when it is finally release proper.

Hundreds of gigs of all sizes; works flawlessly and sounds as good as any live sound I've ever had irrespective of kit. I use a stage now as the format is perfect for my needs. I have used a head/floorboard when they first came out.

All of the units sound great (tried them all at one point or another - not owned, but borrowed or demo'd).

The best one is the one that fits your specific needs in honesty as they all sound crap if you can't play and they all sound incredible if you're John Cordy (insert your own preference here!)

Si

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Kemper vs Helix vs Quad Cortex

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