Multitrack recorder - still worth having and simple to use ??

Jimbo55 · August 2023

Although I've not really applied myself properly to PC recording yet (Garage Band/Cakewalk etc) is it still worth having a multitrack recorder as an easier means for now, which could also have tracks transferred to those later.
Seems to an 'oldie plonker forever beginner' like me that it should be easier to plug and record on a multitracker, or am I being silly.
If so, what multitracker could be a useful one to have for home use - I see Zoom R12/20 on the market, and Tascams but find the youtube and other reviews not conclusive or basic enough for me.
Many thanks

TTony · August 2023

As a fellow oldie plonker forever beginner, I found the software based options much easier than a standalone multitrack.

Because you can *see* what you've recorded on the screen. That makes song arranging and editing hugely easier.

I've got an old Boss digital multitrack somewhere. Hasn't been used since I used a basic interface to connect a guitar to an iPad and into Garageband.

Keefy · August 2023

I persevered with hardware multitrack recorders for years and it was a revelation when I switched to a computer-based DAW. Editing is immeasurably easier for a start.

Do yourself a favour though and get an interface that runs off its own PSU rather than USB power.

Jimbo55 · August 2023

thanks comrade TTony ...maybe I really ought to get my act together with the software options - I have tried before and made a few hash things - have you joined up some video of yourself playing too. My attempt a couple of years ago used garageband plus some ipad video clips and I stitched it all together rather badly. Don't have a Mac anymore and pc based, have installed cakewalk and have a focusrite interface but finding it all problematic - being trying to find an absolute basic tutorial on youtube on this but they all seem to be diving into complex sub menus from the word go ...........
(I have been offered an old Zoom R16 multitrack by a friend who doesn't use it any more by the way).

steamabacus · August 2023

I think you really have to be comfortable with the nitty gritty of the software you're using - and be on top of any issues with latency, compatability, etc the software might throw up - in order to have enough 'head space' to actually 'perform' whatever it is you're trying to record.

In that context, old-school wysiwyg knobs and buttons on a hardware recorder can be the difference between actually getting some ideas down and perpetual software 'problem solving'.

Editing and mixing is much easier on a computer-based setup though.

A good half-way house can be to use a hardware recorder during the 'tracking' phase', get the tracks down with the minimum of fuss and then to transfer all the tracks to a computer-based DAW for editing and mixing.

TTony · August 2023

Jimbo55 said:

tmaybe I really ought to get my act together with the software options - I have tried before and made a few hash things - have you joined up some video of yourself playing too.

Seriously, I would.

In fact, I did. I was *finally* prompted to do some recording/sharing during lockdown, both audio and video. Started really simply, but then developed quickly into multi-instruments, multi-tracks, video effects, etc.

It's certainly helpful if you can find some decent YT vids to guide you through the basic process once you progress from the "under 10s" level of GarageBand into a more fully functional DAW (it all looked a bit daunting at first), so I'd recommend trawling through for a decent channel or two that's dedicated to your chosen DAW.

IIRC, I thought Cakewalk had been discontinued, so that might prove to be a bit of a dead-end. Studio One is my preferred DAW (just because a free edition came with my interface) and there are some good, Presonus-sponsored (ie professional) YT channels that support StudioOne, and take you through from basic-basics to doing some quite clever stuff. The entry version of StudioOne can be downloaded from Presonus FoC if you fancy trying it. Other DAWs are available!

I used StudioOne for the audio recording, and iPad for the video, and then just joined them together in a suitable application (which was iMovie for me, at least to begin with). The trick there is to clap at the beginning and end of each recording, so you have a clear alignment point to be able to join the audio/video together.

Jimbo55 · August 2023

Keefy said:

I persevered with hardware multitrack recorders for years and it was a revelation when I switched to a computer-based DAW. Editing is immeasurably easier for a start.

Do yourself a favour though and get an interface that runs off its own PSU rather than USB power.

Hi Keefy, why is an interface with PSU better than USB power ?

Jimbo55 · August 2023

steamabacus said:

I think you really have to be comfortable with the nitty gritty of the software you're using - and be on top of any issues with latency, compatability, etc the software might throw up - in order to have enough 'head space' to actually 'perform' whatever it is you're trying to record.

In that context, old-school wysiwyg knobs and buttons on a hardware recorder can be the difference between actually getting some ideas down and perpetual software 'problem solving'.

Editing and mixing is much easier on a computer-based setup though.

A good half-way house can be to use a hardware recorder during the 'tracking' phase', get the tracks down with the minimum of fuss and then to transfer all the tracks to a computer-based DAW for editing and mixing.

Thanks Steambacus - it was a possible half-way house that I had been thinking in fact !

Jimbo55 · August 2023

TTony said:

Jimbo55 said:

tmaybe I really ought to get my act together with the software options - I have tried before and made a few hash things - have you joined up some video of yourself playing too.

Seriously, I would.

In fact, I did. I was *finally* prompted to do some recording/sharing during lockdown, both audio and video. Started really simply, but then developed quickly into multi-instruments, multi-tracks, video effects, etc.

It's certainly helpful if you can find some decent YT vids to guide you through the basic process once you progress from the "under 10s" level of GarageBand into a more fully functional DAW (it all looked a bit daunting at first), so I'd recommend trawling through for a decent channel or two that's dedicated to your chosen DAW.

IIRC, I thought Cakewalk had been discontinued, so that might prove to be a bit of a dead-end. Studio One is my preferred DAW (just because a free edition came with my interface) and there are some good, Presonus-sponsored (ie professional) YT channels that support StudioOne, and take you through from basic-basics to doing some quite clever stuff. The entry version of StudioOne can be downloaded from Presonus FoC if you fancy trying it. Other DAWs are available!

I used StudioOne for the audio recording, and iPad for the video, and then just joined them together in a suitable application (which was iMovie for me, at least to begin with). The trick there is to clap at the beginning and end of each recording, so you have a clear alignment point to be able to join the audio/video together.

Thanks TTony - I think Cakewalk may come under Bandlab now, but I will look at Studio One now - I still have my ipad which I could still use for video. If I can grasp the Studio One OK I am happy to invest in a full version if that is a good idea too.

Keefy · August 2023

Jimbo55 said:

Keefy said:

I persevered with hardware multitrack recorders for years and it was a revelation when I switched to a computer-based DAW. Editing is immeasurably easier for a start.

Do yourself a favour though and get an interface that runs off its own PSU rather than USB power.

Hi Keefy, why is an interface with PSU better than USB power ?

Noise. Although USB is designed to carry both 5V power and data, in my experience USB-powered interfaces can suffer from noise, separately powered ones less so.

Jimbo55 · August 2023

Keefy said:

Jimbo55 said:

Keefy said:

I persevered with hardware multitrack recorders for years and it was a revelation when I switched to a computer-based DAW. Editing is immeasurably easier for a start.

Do yourself a favour though and get an interface that runs off its own PSU rather than USB power.

Hi Keefy, why is an interface with PSU better than USB power ?

Noise. Although USB is designed to carry both 5V power and data, in my experience USB-powered interfaces can suffer from noise, separately powered ones less so.

Thanks Keefy, just been reading up on this and wise words, many thanks - I don't want my 'rough guitar playing' worsened more haha !

Jimbo55 · August 2023

Jimbo55 said:

TTony said:

Jimbo55 said:

tmaybe I really ought to get my act together with the software options - I have tried before and made a few hash things - have you joined up some video of yourself playing too.

Seriously, I would.

In fact, I did. I was *finally* prompted to do some recording/sharing during lockdown, both audio and video. Started really simply, but then developed quickly into multi-instruments, multi-tracks, video effects, etc.

It's certainly helpful if you can find some decent YT vids to guide you through the basic process once you progress from the "under 10s" level of GarageBand into a more fully functional DAW (it all looked a bit daunting at first), so I'd recommend trawling through for a decent channel or two that's dedicated to your chosen DAW.

IIRC, I thought Cakewalk had been discontinued, so that might prove to be a bit of a dead-end. Studio One is my preferred DAW (just because a free edition came with my interface) and there are some good, Presonus-sponsored (ie professional) YT channels that support StudioOne, and take you through from basic-basics to doing some quite clever stuff. The entry version of StudioOne can be downloaded from Presonus FoC if you fancy trying it. Other DAWs are available!

I used StudioOne for the audio recording, and iPad for the video, and then just joined them together in a suitable application (which was iMovie for me, at least to begin with). The trick there is to clap at the beginning and end of each recording, so you have a clear alignment point to be able to join the audio/video together.

Thanks TTony - I think Cakewalk may come under Bandlab now, but I will look at Studio One now - I still have my ipad which I could still use for video. If I can grasp the Studio One OK I am happy to invest in a full version if that is a good idea too.

Hi again TTony - I have been looking at the PreSonus and indeed really like the fact it is 'matched up' with Studio One - is this USB power or separate PSU by the way (following Keefy advice ? What model PreSonus have you got - I see a PreSonus Quantum 2626 as current, with much included - pricey but I am often selling off gear that I don't use regularly which will cover the cost if it's the one to get ? (as I get even older I always feel I can sell it on later once my fingers rust up !)

thecolourbox · August 2023

Keefy said:

Jimbo55 said:

Keefy said:

I persevered with hardware multitrack recorders for years and it was a revelation when I switched to a computer-based DAW. Editing is immeasurably easier for a start.

Do yourself a favour though and get an interface that runs off its own PSU rather than USB power.

Hi Keefy, why is an interface with PSU better than USB power ?

Noise. Although USB is designed to carry both 5V power and data, in my experience USB-powered interfaces can suffer from noise, separately powered ones less so.

I also fried a brand new usb interface plugging it directly into the laptop - it went zzzzip in my ear and that was that so I had to go through a right rigmarole of returning and getting a new one. It has the option of either usb or external power, so I don't risk it any more on USB

TTony · August 2023

This bundle looks to be the closest current equivalent to what I've got

https://www.presonus.com/en/interfaces/usb-audio-interfaces/audiobox-series/2777700108.html. You'll probably find that available on Amazon.

2 inputs so you can record guitar/vocals or guitar direct & mic'd at the same time. It *is* USB powered, but I've never found that to be an issue, neither in noise (I've never detected any) nor in blowing up. That said, I'll generally connect to the laptop before switching on, rather than plugging stuff in to a "live" power connection.

Benefit of USB is that you don't need another PSU, another lead, and access to another power socket. I've used mine, with laptop, in the garden (don't worry - the neighbours are far away), with no need for any other power supply.

I've found Joe Gilder's YT tutorials on Studio1 to be excellent. This is a playlist of 100 tutorial videos (fear not, most of them are <5mins!),.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WslWezLUXZ0&list=PL8i35_thZU6XXflI6jwYJV3tNM4LMRPua

spark240 · August 2023

The Quantum is a nice bit of kit but pricey and do you need it ?

Maybe a Revelator io24 might suffice...

nero1701 · August 2023

I have a Mac with Garageband and a M-Audio interface,also a Kemper.
I have recently bought a Tascam stand alone multitracker (waiting on arrival), I often find the computer is a rabbit hole of tweaking and playing around and detracts from playing.

Jimbo55 · August 2023

TTony said:

This bundle looks to be the closest current equivalent to what I've got

https://www.presonus.com/en/interfaces/usb-audio-interfaces/audiobox-series/2777700108.html. You'll probably find that available on Amazon.

2 inputs so you can record guitar/vocals or guitar direct & mic'd at the same time. It *is* USB powered, but I've never found that to be an issue, neither in noise (I've never detected any) nor in blowing up. That said, I'll generally connect to the laptop before switching on, rather than plugging stuff in to a "live" power connection.

Benefit of USB is that you don't need another PSU, another lead, and access to another power socket. I've used mine, with laptop, in the garden (don't worry - the neighbours are far away), with no need for any other power supply.

I've found Joe Gilder's YT tutorials on Studio1 to be excellent. This is a playlist of 100 tutorial videos (fear not, most of them are <5mins!),.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WslWezLUXZ0&list=PL8i35_thZU6XXflI6jwYJV3tNM4LMRPua

Firstly, I would like to really thank all for their help on this - this has really inspired and energised me to anting to play and record again as my previous attempts were not too successful.
I think I may of been looking at the high end PreSonus which would be far beyond my abilities and needs. The PreSonus Audiobox that TTony has will serve my needs although I guess I could 'go up' to even the current 26c model if a worthwhile investment, and perhaps buy as a 'bundle' with monitor speakers and cables and of course the StudioOne. Those videos are great and I think they will serve me well. Are monitor speakers useful, and even/or headphones ?
My previous attempts were with a Focusrite/USB powered/GarageBand with some minor success but much difficulty but far too much frustration !
Re the USB powering, assume this is same with the PreSonus but rather than connect via the PC Laptop, I could take the USB separately to a PSU/plug anyway - I have no issue with sockets nearby for this. I tend to have other things plugged into the laptop USBs anyway at times.
One of my music friends has just kindly dropped of a Zoom R16 multitrack recorder should I want to use it, as he no longer does, so that is an 'old fashioned' way that I can play with alongside anyway.
Thank you so much again.

TTony · August 2023

Jimbo55 said:

Are monitor speakers useful, and even/or headphones ?

Definitely one or the other, and possibly both depending on your budget / set-up.

Unless you're getting into pro-level recording/mixing, then ordinary 'phones/speakers will serve, though those with more tuned-in ears will hear the colouring that standard units apply to the sound. Pro-level kit is significantly more expensive though.

I use a cheapish set of open-backed monitor-esque 'phones, and a set of unpowered monitor-esque speakers through an old hifi amp.

I'd always suggest spending a sensible amount (say £50-£100) so you've got decent quality, rather than the £250 upwards that you'd probably need to get the pro-level kit (and then find that you never really need it!).

nero1701 · August 2023

I quite like AKG K702's, Fairly cheap and really durable.

For monitors, I got mine on Faceache marketplace fairly cheaply. They are Behringer Truth 2031a.

Jimbo55 · August 2023

nero1701 said:

I quite like AKG K702's, Fairly cheap and really durable.

For monitors, I got mine on Faceache marketplace fairly cheaply. They are Behringer Truth 2031a.

Headphones ....another thing for me to get confused with when I start looking at reviews - hmmm ! These AKG's look good, Seems there are open or closed back headphones - beats me - which would be best for home studio recording/monitoring of guitar/bass/vocals?

nero1701 · August 2023

I like open backs, less boomy/bassy imo. Plus they let you hear a little more of the outside world.

Musicwolf · August 2023

Jimbo55 said:

Headphones ....another thing for me to get confused with when I start looking at reviews - hmmm ! These AKG's look good, Seems there are open or closed back headphones - beats me - which would be best for home studio recording/monitoring of guitar/bass/vocals?

For mixing I would strongly recommend open-backed (I use AKG702s). The downside to open-backed is that they leak sound like you wouldn't believe, so no use if you need to do quiet listening with someone else in the room but also not great if you are recording vocals or acoustic guitar (especially if there is something like a click track which you don't want to hear on the final mix). It's worth also having a cheap pair of closed-back headphones for tracking.

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Multitrack recorder - still worth having and simple to use ??

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