Playing keys in a band - setup examples

thecolourbox · August 2023

Hi all, do we have anybody here who plays keys in a band setting who could suggest a typical setup? I'm thinking of expanding my piano side hustle a bit to include more fun stuff, but I don't want to use my wedding piano in the rough and tumble of a gig setting. I've had a couple of people in contact about potentially needing a keys player (and a bit of guitar/vocals) and whilst I know what kit is required for guitar and vocals, I'm not entirely sure for the keys part as I've not really done it before. Budget isn't massive either to be fair, as I'd be doing this to supplement my piano income, rather than for the fun of it, I need to keep it under control. Looking for a tool, rather than an an ornament

It'll be the traditional sounds, don't need synth stuff (if it happens to be there it's fine, just not a requirement), so just piano, wurly/rhodes, and organ sounds I guess. One of the bands is a Stones tribute and that's a good example of the tone of music for the kind of sounds I'd need.

Questions:

keyboard with sounds or midi keyboard to control a module?
will just one keyboard do or do I need a second one so can do piano & organ?
If using a midi thing, i assume switching between two sounds can be set up easily, either on the same module or a second module?
Monitoring tips, though I think they might use IEMs to be fair
Any recommendations on specific items?
Or any messages of "don't bother" also welcome!

Cheers
Matt

victorludorum · August 2023

Calling @horse ;

stickyfiddle · August 2023

You’re on the right track. If you can cover obvious piano hooks in obvious songs, plus Hammond and Wurly and some obvious synths (think Killers, Bryan Adams, Bon Jovi) then you’ll be very useable. Bonus points if you can sing harmonies on top of that.

Something like a Roland Juno DSxx can do all that easily and the smaller ones aren’t too expensive. Otherwise I’d look for a cheap used controller and module. Either way you with most units these days you should be able to do a split so the upper and lower portions of the keyboard will give you different sounds, eg 2 octaves for organ/synth pads while the right hand covers a piano line on the rest.

My main guidance would be get something that doesn’t weight an absolute tonne because that’s just a huge pain for everyone.

I’ve never used IEMs though I do like the idea - if nothing else having consistency of your own mix from gif to gif would be amazing. Too many sound guys are idiots and of course most amateur cover bands don’t have sound guys - either way IEMs should cover you if they’re not too expensive.

EricTheWeary · August 2023

Our keyboard players would have a keyboard or two, keyboard stand, powered monitor and a cable and that was pretty much it. If it’s a band with a better PA than we had you wouldn’t even need a monitor.

I think our original keyboard player had quite a posh Nord and the next one had a Roland RS50 and some kind of Juno (looking at the pics).

Obviously depends on the band but piano, Hammond and something synthy sound wise as said above. The controversial bit will be if they ask you play things like horn section parts and wether you do that with synth horn sounds (which I hate but obviously not everyone does) or more trad keyboard sounds.

thecolourbox · August 2023

Cheers fellas, I'm happy with the actual playing side of things, I'm confident I'm versatile enough to be able to play stuff as largely it's much simpler than what I normally have to play on piano, and to sit on my left hand when the bass is playing. My personality is more of a concern to be honest, whether I could be likeable enough to fit in.

Appreciate the heads up on the kit ideas, glad to see I don't have to spend a fortune on stuff. In a dream world I'd fancy a Korg SV1 or SV2 as they look very much geared to my kind of thing, but I don't think I'm looking to spend that much for an experiment I might not be suited to. I'd seen the Juno DS61 and thought it might work especially if I can find a used one. Good thing with those as well I guess is there's already a wide user base so plenty of support available and should be easily sold on should I need to. Might come in useful as a second keyboard for my wedding gigs as well though to be fair, save me running between areas of venues with an entire piano setup...

My wedding piano is a Roland, but obviously different type of kit as uses different engines and has the piano key action etc.

I'll look at the other Roland you mentioned Phil. I don't intend making any synth brass sounds, they sound terrible and very quickly make things sound awfully cheesy. I've no real interest in playing synth lines in general, unless it was a really well paying gig which I know it wouldn't be as it's single finger playing in the background of the rest of the band

Stratavarious · August 2023

I use a Roland JunoDS61… tonnes of sounds for extra synths/keys sounds. Best value out there IMO.

I use the organ and ePiano a lot as well as the 80’s synth sounds. Can play samples from a USB which is good for songs with signature sounds. Got enough knobs to fiddle sounds on the fly and a vocoder too.

You can split the keyboard for two sounds and set favourites.

Very lightweight, easy to load in - ideal if you double on guitar as I do.

if you want more piano/organ, Nord Electro or Yamaha YC

stickyfiddle · August 2023

The Juno are great - our key-ist has the 76 and enjoys it. You can even get decent-ish brass sounds by stacking layers together - a sax and a horn on different octave, underpinned by a saw wave can sound really fat if you get it right.

horse · August 2023

From memory you might already have a Yamaha mx and a.powered monitor? If so you're probably good to go. Obviously you can expand on that or go more upmarket, but not essential to do so I wouldn't say. Weakest point of the mx is likely to be the organs, but in a mix you'll prob get away with it.

I've never used in ears tbh.

thecolourbox · August 2023

horse said:

From memory you might already have a Yamaha mx and a.powered monitor? If so you're probably good to go. Obviously you can expand on that or go more upmarket, but not essential to do so I wouldn't say. Weakest point of the mx is likely to be the organs, but in a mix you'll prob get away with it.

I've never used in ears tbh.

I do have a Yamaha MX49 yes, but i think it's probably a bit small and very flimsy (which reminds me of another question I have, i'll put it below). It's not that easy to change between sounds either, like on my wedding piano you can go from piano to organ to string or whatever just with buttons across the front of the unit, this one seems to require pressing a button then twisting a very flimsy rotary dial around until you get to the one you want, and then you just hope it's at the right octave setting otherwise that's another button press or two.

My powered speaker that I use for wedding playing is a Bose S1 Pro but as with the wedding piano, I wouldn't want to use it in a gig setting as I like to keep my wedding setup looking pristine. Plus I do struggle with ambient background noise hence the idea of IEM being appealing. My old piano amp was a big old bugger by Alto which would probably be too big to use as a personal monitor

The one band who've been in touch have said the keys would go through the PA so I don't need to worry about an amp for audience to hear me, only for myself

thecolourbox · August 2023

My additional question which my Yamaha keyboard thing reminded me of.

Securing keyboards to stands - is it a case of velcro sticking it to the stands? My wedding piano only gets played pretty softly and is heavy enough to sit comfortably on its stand, but I've found other types of keyboard have rolled around a bit on stands and therefore risk knocking it off

Stratavarious · August 2023

My keyboard stand has rubber sleeves the Juno synth rests on and has never felt unsafe, even hammering some Stevie Wonder Rhodes numbers. The rubber ends also stop it sliding off too.

The Juno has a banks of favourites, so it’s just one click to go to any performance sound I’ve set up and stored as a fave. Inc. transpositions or octave shifts and splits.

I think you can assign sounds to the white buttons on the MX too. Certainly with a firmware update.

I did look at both the MX and the Roland DS closely and the DS won on features.

horse · August 2023

thecolourbox said:

horse said:

From memory you might already have a Yamaha mx and a.powered monitor? If so you're probably good to go. Obviously you can expand on that or go more upmarket, but not essential to do so I wouldn't say. Weakest point of the mx is likely to be the organs, but in a mix you'll prob get away with it.

I've never used in ears tbh.

I do have a Yamaha MX49 yes, but i think it's probably a bit small and very flimsy (which reminds me of another question I have, i'll put it below). It's not that easy to change between sounds either, like on my wedding piano you can go from piano to organ to string or whatever just with buttons across the front of the unit, this one seems to require pressing a button then twisting a very flimsy rotary dial around until you get to the one you want, and then you just hope it's at the right octave setting otherwise that's another button press or two.

My powered speaker that I use for wedding playing is a Bose S1 Pro but as with the wedding piano, I wouldn't want to use it in a gig setting as I like to keep my wedding setup looking pristine. Plus I do struggle with ambient background noise hence the idea of IEM being appealing. My old piano amp was a big old bugger by Alto which would probably be too big to use as a personal monitor

The one band who've been in touch have said the keys would go through the PA so I don't need to worry about an amp for audience to hear me, only for myself

Yeah, 5 octaves is prob the smallest I could cope with for a single keyboard gig. I've often gigged with 2: one with weighted keys on the bottom and the something more synth or organ on top, but if I can get away with just 1 then I do. Played plenty with just my Nord electro 5d, and had prepped a whole 2 sets of bon Jovi on a modx to get away from using 2 for that.

IEMs should certainly solve the problem I've sometimes had hearing myself despite decent monitors.

Never had to secure a keyboard to a stand, but I guess velcro would work!

thecolourbox · August 2023

Thanks chaps, all very useful info indeed. I shall keep my eyes open for a used Roland Juno DS61 I think, I suppose technically I could use the flimsy Yamaha as a second one above it if it ever came to that.

I have been thinking it through and listening to Stones tracks today (the one band who messaged was a stones tribute) and I think I'm probably going to pass on that, as much as we all like the Stones I'm not sure I would want to commit to playing that all the time and I think the bigger the group the more chance I'll about people with my personality. So will try to find a smaller ensemble doing stuff closer to my tastes and hopefully then I can use the above info. Or if I ever get a solo set polished up!

Roland · August 2023

@paulmapp8306 ;

paulmapp8306 · August 2023

I think knowing the actual budget would help - one persons isnt much is another's unobtainable.

Without knowing that..... 2 boards is always better than one if your playing piano at all. You really need that hammer action for piano, but not for hammonds. the Rhodes/Whirlies you could play on either.

That said, you could grab a hammer action (or at least weighted) board with everything then a midi controller for actually playing the organ stuff on (playing the sounds of the main board from the midi controller). That keeps cost down. You could do it the other way too - and have the midi controller being the weighted action, but there harder to find. You could use the MX49 just as a controller (so again,. dont use its own sounds, just its bed to expand your main board)- IF 4 octaves isnt a killer for organs for you - so just one board. If you want to use its internal sounds, you can patch change from you main board using midi program change info, if your main board supports that (most workstation type boards do) - so you change preset on one board and everything else follow suit.

The Juno DS is OK, the Fantom 08 and Modx8 are better - though up in budget. Both have playable hammer action beds. The Modx has better pianos, the Fantom better hammonds. EPs are about on par. Of course the Nord Electros are great - but blinkin expensive (I shouldnt say that having just bought a 5k board.....just for home use lol).

You could also just go for a decent midi controller suitable to your feel needs and go the VST route - I dont like to personally by many many do.

You do need to decide how many keys you need.... I could get away with 73/76 - though I prefer 88 for piano, but I couldnt play piano parts on a 61 note bed personally, Id find it too restrictive - but again budget will come into play here - obviously the more keys, the more cost and the more weight.

My keyboard/synth obsession has got out of hand lol..... I still take my 88 note stage piano (Roland RD2000), a 76 note workstation (Roland Fantom7), a hammond module, and 2 synth modules (Peak and Virus Ti2) live BUT Im in a fairly synth heavy project rather than just pianos/EPs/Organs. Id still take the 2 keyboards though for the hammer and unweighted playing surfaces even if thats all I needed. Ive then got 5 more synths on top (Polybrute, 3rd Wave, Iridium keyboard - and a Prophet 6 and OB6 in desktop form).........for home use.

goldtop · August 2023

The MX series does do a "sort-of" favourites thing for quick live recall. Discussed here: http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/472896 ;

That said, the extra £££s spent on the MODX makes a far better live proposition, and with the DX sounds, it covers a lot of 80s and 90s tones, too. It's also still lightweight, but not as insubstantial as the MX.

thecolourbox · August 2023

Thanks chaps for the further info. i'm not entirely sure I'm that bothered about the weighted keys - my wedding piano has weighted keys and it's pretty helpful for my quiet playing but anything louder it doesn't seem to make much difference to me.

That said, Paul's idea of having two keyboards and one being a controller of the other could work as I like the piano and wurlitzer sounds of the Yamaha, so getting a midi controller to control the MX49 could do the job then only need to use the MX49's keyboard if I need to play say Organ background and piano plinky plonky over the top.

My MX49 cost me a grand total of £110 so yes, should hope the £1k+ MODX is a better proposition! I don't have an exact budget really until I know more what I'd be using it for and therefore what my income from the gigs would be. Say if it's me doing solo stuff then my budget is probably 50p and a packet of kitkats. If it were something like the Stones tribute, then that would pay actual money so I'd have a bit more to play with but ideally would rather keep it sub £400 if possible

borntohang · August 2023

The 'ideal' gigging rig for most traditional players is usually a hammer-action board for piano and something with lighter action on top for organ/synth sounds. Obviously if you're doing something that leans towards either side of the spectrum that can change - I play more Hammond than piano so prefer waterfall keys and don't own anything with hammer.

If you're wanting to keep it sub 400 for a single board I'd recommend a second hand Juno or VR09. VR has great organ and electric pianos, a fully-editable synth section, and a pretty flat but entirely useable acoustic piano. Very little menu diving, action is average synth-weight, and it weighs next to nothing. Think I got mine brand new for about £500 and have probably earned more from it than just about any other instrument I own!

Also I wouldn't worry about your personality too much - keyboardists aren't supposed to have any.

thomasw88 · August 2023

I've had a Roland DS61, didn't really like it tbh. Also had a VR09 which was better for organs, but now have a Yamaha CK61 and a Yamaha YC73 which I prefer to the Rolands by a mile.

Budget wise if you can stretch to the Yamaha CK61 or 88 you'll get a much nicer gigging board imho. That;s what I use with one band and it's great. Very easy to use, lots of great sounds (better than the Roland for pianos/Electronic pianos and far better for organs than the DS61. ). Doesn't have all the features of the DS61 but I far prefer it.. The CK61 keybed is probably a little better than the DS61/VR09b but these are still not great.
Organ wise the VR09 is closer to the CK61 but I think I marginally prefer the CK.

The CK88 has a much nicer keybed ie graded hammer action.

In another band where I only play keys I use a Yamaha Yc73 and a midi board attached to the YC73 just so I can have more flexibility with splits etc. I could use Ipad etc for additional sounds/samples etc but haven't needed to yet..

New Yamaha P225 looks pretty tasty as well.

paulmapp8306 · August 2023

thomasw88 said:

I've had a Roland DS61, didn't really like it tbh. Also had a VR09 which was better for organs, but now have a Yamaha CK61 and a Yamaha YC73 which I prefer to the Rolands by a mile.

Budget wise if you can stretch to the Yamaha CK61 or 88 you'll get a much nicer gigging board imho. That;s what I use with one band and it's great. Very easy to use, lots of great sounds (better than the Roland for pianos/Electronic pianos and far better for organs than the DS61. ). Doesn't have all the features of the DS61 but I far prefer it.. The CK61 keybed is probably a little better than the DS61/VR09b but these are still not great.
Organ wise the VR09 is closer to the CK61 but I think I marginally prefer the CK.

The CK88 has a much nicer keybed ie graded hammer action.

In another band where I only play keys I use a Yamaha Yc73 and a midi board attached to the YC73 just so I can have more flexibility with splits etc. I could use Ipad etc for additional sounds/samples etc but haven't needed to yet..

New Yamaha P225 looks pretty tasty as well.

I wouldnt have a VR09... I would take a VR730 over the yamahas though - if your primarily after organs and EPs. Ultimately its a personal choice at that point.

thomasw88 · August 2023

paulmapp8306 said:

thomasw88 said:

I've had a Roland DS61, didn't really like it tbh. Also had a VR09 which was better for organs, but now have a Yamaha CK61 and a Yamaha YC73 which I prefer to the Rolands by a mile.

Budget wise if you can stretch to the Yamaha CK61 or 88 you'll get a much nicer gigging board imho. That;s what I use with one band and it's great. Very easy to use, lots of great sounds (better than the Roland for pianos/Electronic pianos and far better for organs than the DS61. ). Doesn't have all the features of the DS61 but I far prefer it.. The CK61 keybed is probably a little better than the DS61/VR09b but these are still not great.
Organ wise the VR09 is closer to the CK61 but I think I marginally prefer the CK.

The CK88 has a much nicer keybed ie graded hammer action.

In another band where I only play keys I use a Yamaha Yc73 and a midi board attached to the YC73 just so I can have more flexibility with splits etc. I could use Ipad etc for additional sounds/samples etc but haven't needed to yet..

New Yamaha P225 looks pretty tasty as well.

I wouldnt have a VR09... I would take a VR730 over the yamahas though - if your primarily after organs and EPs. Ultimately its a personal choice at that point.

Personal choice as you say but have you tried the YC range? absolutely miles ahead of the Roland VR imho.

paulmapp8306 · August 2023

thomasw88 said:

paulmapp8306 said:

thomasw88 said:

I've had a Roland DS61, didn't really like it tbh. Also had a VR09 which was better for organs, but now have a Yamaha CK61 and a Yamaha YC73 which I prefer to the Rolands by a mile.

Budget wise if you can stretch to the Yamaha CK61 or 88 you'll get a much nicer gigging board imho. That;s what I use with one band and it's great. Very easy to use, lots of great sounds (better than the Roland for pianos/Electronic pianos and far better for organs than the DS61. ). Doesn't have all the features of the DS61 but I far prefer it.. The CK61 keybed is probably a little better than the DS61/VR09b but these are still not great.
Organ wise the VR09 is closer to the CK61 but I think I marginally prefer the CK.

The CK88 has a much nicer keybed ie graded hammer action.

In another band where I only play keys I use a Yamaha Yc73 and a midi board attached to the YC73 just so I can have more flexibility with splits etc. I could use Ipad etc for additional sounds/samples etc but haven't needed to yet..

New Yamaha P225 looks pretty tasty as well.

I wouldnt have a VR09... I would take a VR730 over the yamahas though - if your primarily after organs and EPs. Ultimately its a personal choice at that point.

Personal choice as you say but have you tried the YC range? absolutely miles ahead of the Roland VR imho.

yep. Ive played the CP and the YC extensively. I wasnt OVERLY taken with them, I mean there good but I didnt think they were light years ahead of anything already onut there really - but then ive never really been a Yamaha fan so maybe I carried some of that with me.

It take them over the Nords, probably - though the YC is more Nord electro which is the only one of their boards I find decent to play. The CP is certainly better than their Pianos.

The only thing that lets the VR09 down is the keybed - far too light keybed IMO, feels cheap and plasticky. The VR730 isnt like that at all - its a very nice waterfall keybed. I have to say, the keybed is the thing I look for first and foremost - its where the musician copnnects teh the instrument, and if your not 100% happy with that it doesnt matter how good it sounds, or how versatile, your never going to be happy. NOT that the YC/CP arnt decent, but I prefer the RD2000 over the CP by a long way, and I prefer the VR720- over the YC - just.

thomasw88 · August 2023

paulmapp8306 said:

thomasw88 said:

paulmapp8306 said:

thomasw88 said:

I've had a Roland DS61, didn't really like it tbh. Also had a VR09 which was better for organs, but now have a Yamaha CK61 and a Yamaha YC73 which I prefer to the Rolands by a mile.

Budget wise if you can stretch to the Yamaha CK61 or 88 you'll get a much nicer gigging board imho. That;s what I use with one band and it's great. Very easy to use, lots of great sounds (better than the Roland for pianos/Electronic pianos and far better for organs than the DS61. ). Doesn't have all the features of the DS61 but I far prefer it.. The CK61 keybed is probably a little better than the DS61/VR09b but these are still not great.
Organ wise the VR09 is closer to the CK61 but I think I marginally prefer the CK.

The CK88 has a much nicer keybed ie graded hammer action.

In another band where I only play keys I use a Yamaha Yc73 and a midi board attached to the YC73 just so I can have more flexibility with splits etc. I could use Ipad etc for additional sounds/samples etc but haven't needed to yet..

New Yamaha P225 looks pretty tasty as well.

I wouldnt have a VR09... I would take a VR730 over the yamahas though - if your primarily after organs and EPs. Ultimately its a personal choice at that point.

Personal choice as you say but have you tried the YC range? absolutely miles ahead of the Roland VR imho.

yep. Ive played the CP and the YC extensively. I wasnt OVERLY taken with them, I mean there good but I didnt think they were light years ahead of anything already onut there really - but then ive never really been a Yamaha fan so maybe I carried some of that with me.

It take them over the Nords, probably - though the YC is more Nord electro which is the only one of their boards I find decent to play. The CP is certainly better than their Pianos.

The only thing that lets the VR09 down is the keybed - far too light keybed IMO, feels cheap and plasticky. The VR730 isnt like that at all - its a very nice waterfall keybed. I have to say, the keybed is the thing I look for first and foremost - its where the musician copnnects teh the instrument, and if your not 100% happy with that it doesnt matter how good it sounds, or how versatile, your never going to be happy. NOT that the YC/CP arnt decent, but I prefer the RD2000 over the CP by a long way, and I prefer the VR720- over the YC - just.

Fair enough. I think I don't really like Rolands tbh, have had the DS61 and VR09, also had a FA76 which i bought from your good self and didn't really like that one either!

I find the YC73 keybed not quite as piano like as I would really like, but I think I'd be inclined to just get a stage piano or midi board with graded hammer action as sound wise/usability I find the YC/CK excellent.

rich75 · August 2023

I should probably start by saying that I'm not what I would consider to be a "proper" keyboard player. I'm a guitarist who plays keyboard on around 25% or so (sometimes more) of our set to allow the set to be a bit more varied.

Having worked through a few different keyboards (Yamaha MX49 and Korg Kross 2 61, for example) I finally settled on the Yamaha MODX6 going through a Yamaha DXR10 and I'm really happy with both.

I can get some great sounds of of the MODX to the point where it almost makes me sound as if I know what I'm doing.

It's easily versatile enough for gigging and is easy to set up for live use in terms of switching between programs (via the live set window on the touchscreen) or varying sounds within a program using the scene buttons on the front panel.

The keybed is fine for me but perhaps less so for someone who wants a more piano-like feel. It's also predominantly plastic, which is fine for me because it makes it nice and light and portable, but I guess it is in theory not as robust and hardwearing as some keyboards (having said that I've had mine for around four years and it has survived plenty of gigs in that time without any damage).

paulmapp8306 · August 2023

Noting wrong with the ModX. The 8 has a half decent piano keybed, the 6 and 7 are fine for synthwork. Its decent sounding at acoustic sounds, and stock bakd stuff. Its not particularly easy to create sounds from scratch - Yamaha hasnt been great at UIs for that, and its synth capabilities arnt up to that on the Fantoms for instance, but its competent board.

Actually a Fantom 08 (if you want light, of 8 if not) plus a Modx6/7 OR a Modex8 plus Fantom 6/7 (or 06/07) complement each other very well as they excel at different aspects.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Playing keys in a band - setup examples

Comments