Ebony...

thomasross20 · August 2023

How come I've never tried an ebony guitar.... who here has?
They seem to have a blooming bass and not so much of the piercing treble that rosewood has.
I always think of the "main" woods as being mahogany, rosewood & maple... but I think ebony is maybe the 4th big category.

Experiences .... ?

I've heard some say it can have really brittle trebles - if so - no good for me.

This is relating to my build.. the other tonewoods I've come across that sound interesting are bog oak and Australian blackwood (I keep hearing this is like koa, but also like mahogany with more bass which is nothing like koa!?). Anybody tried those?

I like the sound of cuban mahogany, too... but is near instinct.

Tannin · August 2023

* There isn't enough of it. Ebony is in very short supply. Plantation ebony exists but won't start producing in volume for many years yet. And that, remember, is with usage mostly limited only to fretboards, bridges, and headstock veneers - throw in the much larger quantity needed for back and sides and the amount available is hopelessly inadequate.

* It is nevertheless used for back and sides, but very seldom and only by individual luthiers, where cost is not an issue and supply not such a constraint. Apparently, it sounds pretty good. But then, there are 100 different woods that sound pretty good.

* It is much harder and heavier than anything else in common use, and won't produce a "standard" sort of guitar sound. African Blackwood is similar (even harder) and, like ebony, it is sometimes used for back and sides. It is even rarer and even more expensive.

* If you really want to use a material that is harder and heavier than rosewood, there is Cocobolo (actually a rosewood species) but that is another very rare and expensive timber; then there are Gidgee and Mulga. Those two fall between ebony and African Blackwood for weight and hardness and are not at all threatened. Mulga in particular is very, very common in the wild but will be hard to find in pieces sufficiently large for guitar backs. Both are used for fretboards (as you'd expect); Gidgee is said to make excellent back and sides. I'm not sure if Mulga is used for that purpose - Mulga trees tend to be smallish and twisted, so finding the right bit might take some work.

Tannin · August 2023

In the other thread, @thomasross20 asks Is bog oak heavier than ebony? I shouldn't think so.

So far as I can discover, dried bog oak (surprisingly enough) has similar density to dried fresh-cut oak. Apparently most of the exchange of material - (hemicelulose is slowly replaced by silica and lime) is restricted to the outer layers of the log. Most or all of this outer layer is lost during the milling process. The result (so far as I can glean from sparse information on-line) is a timber which is dark in colour and may be harder than seasoned fresh-cut oak but is otherwise fairly similar.

Bog oak is certainly quite heavy when you hold it in your hand, but so is fresh-cut oak.

Anyway, the figures below are for European Oak (the species normally found in bog oak form) and a variety of other hard to very hard tonewoods, normalised with respect to Indian Rosewood.

                   density	hard	MofE	rupture	crush
European Oak	    0.81	0.46	0.92	0.85	0.78
Mountain Ash	    0.82	0.50	1.22	0.85	0.98
Rock Maple	    0.85	0.59	1.10	0.95	0.90
White Oak	    0.91	0.55	1.06	0.89	0.85
Black Sirus	    0.92	0.67	1.02	0.84	0.94
Tasmanian Blue Gum  0.99	0.97	1.63	1.18	1.29
Indian Rosewood	    1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00
Brazillian Rosewood 1.01	1.14	1.21	1.18	1.13
Tamarind	    1.02	1.10	1.15	0.97	1.00
Osage Orange	    1.03	1.07	1.01	0.97	1.08
Pau Ferro	    1.04	0.80	0.94	1.07	1.02
River Red Gum	    1.05	0.88	1.03	1.08	0.97
Bubinga	            1.07        0.99	1.03	1.47	1.27
Madagascar Rosewood 1.13	0.93	1.04	1.45	1.28
Spotted Gum	    1.13	0.95	1.72	1.24	1.20
Gabon Ebony	    1.15	1.26	1.47	1.47	1.28
Cocobolo	    1.32	1.30	1.63	1.38	1.36
Gidgee	            1.39        1.75	1.61	1.14	1.17
Macassar Ebony	    1.35	1.30	1.51	1.37	1.34
Mulga	            1.45        1.30	1.51	1.14	1.17
African Blackwood   1.53	1.50	1.56	1.87	1.22

Generally speaking, when people say "ebony" without qualification, the species in question will be Gabon Ebony.

European Oak is the only European timber listed. Rock Maple, White Oak, and Osage Orange are from North America; Mountain Ash, Tasmanian Blue Gum, River Red Gum, Spotted Gum, Gidgee, and Mulga from Australia; Brazilian Rosewood, Pau Ferro, and Cocobolo from South or Central America; Bubinga, Madagascar Rosewood, Gabon Ebony, and African Blackwood from Africa; the remainder all from Asia.

One timber I really should add is persimmon (yes, the one the fruit comes from) which is in the same genus as the ebonys and almost as hard.

guitarjack66 · August 2023

I just want sustainable woods to be used,and replaced. And not just guitars but everything from kitchen tables to garden fence posts and beyond. Where I live we have gone from a semi rural town to an almost exclusively concrete jungle. I'm sure many people have experienced similar and those trees and woods are not being replaced. Unsurprisingly we now have more extremes of weather and our seasons are just 'weather' rather than a climate.
Rant over.

MSedg · August 2023

I’ve got one, it’s my main one and it’s fabulous. Atkin OM, Macassar B&S with Adirondack top. I’ve not really experienced the “brittle treble” thing, or at least no more than with rosewood b&s. I find it has slightly less deep bass than rosewood, but sufficient - maybe more than mahogany. And lots of the overtones that come with rosewood, more than mahogany. For me, I find it a perfect balance, but it’s not for everyone I’m sure.

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