Opinions on the Martin D15M for a heavy strummer? Bad idea?

Wistman · August 2023

I find myself wanting to add a new acoustic to my arsenal and could use some advice. Have been playing guitar for a long time, but only switched to acoustics in the past 3 years or so.

Being a lefty in the countryside, I do not have the luxury of walking into a guitar store and trying a bunch sadly.

I also strongly prefer to buy used, just a principle of mine - I've never bought a new guitar or a new car in my life!

My current acoustics are a Taylor GS Mini (mahogany) and a Lakewood D1 dreadnought (engelmann/hog). I enjoy both guitars but if I'm honest neither of these guitars responds well to my playing, and both flub out pretty quick when I really get going. I am a VERY heavy strummer, it's just my style at this point after years of thrashing away at Teles. People have described my playing as 'folk punk' - when I'm singing and strumming I get very into it and put a lot of energy out, for better or worse. I play almost exclusively in downtuned open tunings.

My lefty friend locally has a couple of Taylors and surprisingly, his spruce and walnut 114CE has a LOT more headroom than my dread, and is also much fuller sounding generally. I think maybe the engelmann Lakewood was a bad choice for me, it seems to be more suited for soft fingerpicking, so I've been thinking of trying to grab a different flavour of dreadnought.

Sadly, there has been hardly anything of interest floating round the used gear places recently. One thing that's caught my eye is a 2009 lefty Martin D15M advertised for a pretty good price that keeps going round and round on eBay. I could drive and collect it probably, it's not TOO far... however, I am not sure it is really the guitar for me. I have seen a lot of conflicting talk about the D15M on forums - a couple saying it has loads of headroom and responds well to heavy playing, others saying it flubs out. I think people probably have differing ideas of what 'heavy' constitutes, and i am definitely towards the extreme end of it. None of the Youtube playtests really show it being properly wellied, though i do like the basic tone and look (I'm a sucker for plain Jane acoustics, not really into gloss and bling).

Any thoughts or advice gratefully received

Tannin · August 2023

My experience with that model is not good. From here: https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/242682/hardwood-tops/p2

Tannin said:
..... picked up this one - https://www.modernmusician.com.au/martin-d-15m - which (despite Martin's dishonest PR material) is not mahogany either, it is Sipo. That lasted about 30 seconds. It wasn't as dreadful as the D-10 but it had a different kind of awful. Again, not the wood's fault - Sipo is a perfectly respectable tonewood - just an awful sound. I cannot imagine what people find to like about this model. It sounds cheap and limited and crappy and boxy. Could you play blues on it? Sure you could, and it would go sort-of OK. But you can play blues on practically anything, including any of the many far better instruments. I didn't bother picking up any of the cheap plywood Yamahas on the other side of the room but I bet that any one of them would have sounded better. I'm not a Martin-basher - I like D-18s and D-28s and OM-28s and 000-18s and I love HD-28s, but wow!

Horses for courses and tastes differ, sure. But I would really, really, really want to play one of these before buying. They hate their own sound and it's not a very flexible sound.

Of all the spruces, Englemann is the one least suited to hard playing. Red ("Adirondack") Spruce, all else being equal, is the hardest and the best able to take loud playing, followed by Sitka.

Physically large tops are (again, all else being equal) better for hard players. Jumbos and dreadnoughts stand it better than OMs.

Winny_Pooh · August 2023

Mahogany top guitars can be a bit softer sounding. The Taylor AD27 is nice though.

Look into rosewood Dread style guitars with long scales (esp for open tunings) like a classic D-28. They usually have less "warm mids" and more volume, bass and treble than most Mahogany back and sides guitars.

https://www.peachguitars.com/eastman-traditional-e20dl-dreadnought-natural-left-handed.htm

Tannin · August 2023

Tannin said: They hate their own sound and it's not a very flexible sound.

.

Woops!

Read that as "they have their own sound"

TheMadMick · August 2023

It's not only the guitar tonewoods that determine the "flub factor" it's also ow they are set up.

I was advised that cedar is not a good top but I have 2 and they are both fine. But then I don't hammer it to hard.

Try before you buy.

ICBM · August 2023

In my experience and opinion, the suitability of mahogany as a top wood is in inverse proportion to the size of the guitar... ie for a Dreadnought, not very/at all. It's not ideal for the body for very heavy strumming either.

If flub is a problem, you should probably try a maple-bodied, maple-necked guitar with a long scale and heavy bracing. If you want a Dreadnought then a good example is a Gibson Dove, although there are others.

Wistman · August 2023

Winny_Pooh said:

Mahogany top guitars can be a bit softer sounding. The Taylor AD27 is nice though.

Look into rosewood Dread style guitars with long scales (esp for open tunings) like a classic D-28. They usually have less "warm mids" and more volume, bass and treble than most Mahogany back and sides guitars.

https://www.peachguitars.com/eastman-traditional-e20dl-dreadnought-natural-left-handed.htm

I was eyeing a used lefty D28P on Facebook Marketplace, £1500 but sadly rather a long way away from me so no chance to try... I do think it might be a good guitar for me though, and the neck also appealed to me..

Wistman · August 2023

ICBM said:

If flub is a problem, you should probably try a maple-bodied, maple-necked guitar with a long scale and heavy bracing. If you want a Dreadnought then a good example is a Gibson Dove, although there are others.

Sounds good in theory, but being a lefty my options are severely limited - I have not seen many large maple-bodied acoustics in a lefty option (Takamine do some but cedar-topped mostly, not sure that’ll work for me)... also can’t justify more than about £1500, which will get me into used Dxx Martin territory but still a way off any of the flagship Gibson jumbos or dreads... J45 caught my interest but even used the lefties go for £1750+ now...

Wistman · August 2023

Tannin said:

My experience with that model is not good. From here: https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/242682/hardwood-tops/p2

Of all the spruces, Englemann is the one least suited to hard playing. Red ("Adirondack") Spruce, all else being equal, is the hardest and the best able to take loud playing, followed by Sitka.

Physically large tops are (again, all else being equal) better for hard players. Jumbos and dreadnoughts stand it better than OMs.

Thanks for your review, wow, I think I will forget the D15M for now then!

Yeah, adi does seem like it might be the top for me from all I've read... finding it hard to locate many adi-topped instruments within budget though... also jumbos are rare and expensive in lefties, there's a used lefty Gibson J200 Studio on Ebay currently and that's £2000+... not many companies make anything midrange in a lefty jumbo. Epi ones sound bad, and the Sigma SG200 seems a lot of money for a laminated Chinese guitar (£850 or so).

Wistman · August 2023

This 2010 D28P is really tempting me, the P neck actually sounds up my alley too, but it is impractically far away from me... I could maybe persuade them to courier it, but wouldn't get to try it... it's the absolute upper end of my budget too, I've never spent this much on a single instrument before...

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/247576364727324

earwighoney · August 2023

This looks pretty good

It's in your neck of the woods too.

Englemann top, but sounds good played for Bluegrass so I think you might be ok with your playing style.

ICBM · August 2023

If you're OK with a Jumbo rather than a Dreadnought...

https://www.guitar.co.uk/sigma-gja-sg200l-left-handed-vintage-sunburst

Wistman · August 2023

I have thought about these Sigma jumbos before! looks good, sounds good... seems expensive for a laminated back and sides guitar, but obviously it has a lot of work in the appointments, burst finish etc...

Wistman · August 2023

earwighoney said:

This looks pretty good

I checked these out before, all the stuff I read suggested they're great BUT they have very little headroom, so probably the same issue as my existing dread

Wistman · August 2023

As far as Sigmas go, their Hummingbird ripoff looks interesting to me... the all-solid wood version has an adi top...

https://reverb.com/uk/item/61291921-sigma-sdm-sg6l-acoustic-guitar-lefthand-sigma-softshellbag

Sadly, none available in the UK currently (none of the non-solid version either)

ICBM · August 2023

Wistman said:

As far as Sigmas go, their Hummingbird ripoff looks interesting to me... the all-solid wood version has an adi top...

That’s a shorter scale though - more flub when strummed hard. Mahogany bodies are looser-sounding than maple or rosewood as well.

Soupman · August 2023

Just a thought here, but what gauge strings are you using?
I'm thinking if you strum as hard as you say that 13s could help?

earwighoney · August 2023

Wistman said:

earwighoney said:

This looks pretty good

I checked these out before, all the stuff I read suggested they're great BUT they have very little headroom, so probably the same issue as my existing dread

Sounds like you would do well with a guitar with an Adirondack soundboard.

The Eastman might be your best bet, but it might be difficult to find one second hand or close to you.

Soupman said:

Just a thought here, but what gauge strings are you using?
I'm thinking if you strum as hard as you say that 13s could help?

This is a good shout actually. The heaviest strummer I have ever seen, was Nick Harper and he plays a custom Newtone 13-66 set! Aside from heavier strings, I'd put in a higher saddle as well.

Wistman · August 2023

Soupman said:

Just a thought here, but what gauge strings are you using?
I'm thinking if you strum as hard as you say that 13s could help?

At the moment I have it strung with DR Rares, 12-56, which is a ‘bluegrass’ set - slightly lighter top, heavy bottom. This works pretty well for me tension-wise, particularly as my main tuning is a bit of an oddity (DADAAD) in which the 3rd is tuned significantly higher than standard. The tuning weirdly does not sound so good with the 3rd simply replaced with a 2nd, even though the two strings are in unison... somehow the high-tuned 3rd adds some kind of 12 string-like depth of tone.

The problem with the Lakewood is not a tension issue, I don’t get any buzzing or such, it sounds to me like the top just farts out a bit when really hammered - and this guitar also has quite a narrow, focused sound, reminds me a bit of a mandocello, somewhat lacking low end despite being a dread. My mate’s Taylor 114 has more low end thump, despite being strung with 11s... all in all, the Lakewood is a lovely guitar and I am planning to keep it and make it my fingerpicking guitar, but I definitely need a guitar better suited to hard strumming.

Wistman · August 2023

Well, just an update... the search is over and GAS cured for a while again! Ended up with something quite different from the D15 I was eyeing

I was looking to get something mid-to-high end and was prepared to spend up to £1500 or so, but in the end what I strumbled across and bought was a humble Taylor 110, made in Mexico in 2012. The price was low, so I met up with the seller and gave it a try... and it hits the spot!

A very different sound from my Lakewood, and the two guitars will compliment eachother very nicely. The Lakewood is all dry, earthy woodiness, and this is shimmery highs and lots of washy overtones. Funny how two dreadnoughts that look very similar from a distance are so different.

It might not be the most fancy instrument, but to be honest I am not a fan of bling on guitars anyway (hence the D15 appealing to me aesthetically) and prefer the feel of satin to gloss; my electrics all have finely sanded necks to remove the 'sticky ick' feel.

I was VERY thankful that Taylor installs truss rods, because the action was so high you could have parked a car between the strings and the 12th fret... a couple of screws off, a few tweaks and it is perfect now!

Anyhow, here she is...

Image: https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/368720340_971514537475632_2076668391125863491_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=R0sWoILc6UUAX-IpyzQ&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&oh=03_AdTPIndDFoIP_aSBfDyxAL84Tvzul6oHlRNB1ZQ4YOatlA&oe=65098805

ElectricXII · August 2023

Congrats. Nice guitar. I like the plain Janes too, and I hit them too hard like you. I've got a J-35 which works for me.

Soupman · August 2023

Nice guitar. I'm not a fan of bling either. Looks great , but there's something wrong with the pickguard & strings......they look as though they're on the wrong way round.

MooseAboot · August 2023

I recall trying one in the local shop (long gone) in Edinburgh repeatedly in the early 2000s. It just had something and I should have bought it. Went back one weekend and it was gone,
Congrats.

Choivert · August 2023

This looks really nice. Some really good grain on that top! And lovely and simple, make it about the sound and not about the bling. Love it.

Jez6345789 · August 2023

The obvious thing is to revise you technique but from one banger to another that’s not always easy in the short term.

In reality it’s less to do with wood more about physics bracing etc. a lighter braced Adirondack top will probably have greater headroom than a well mannered 000 physical size of the soundboard is also important as the top has to process the energy effective.y and dampen problem frequencies.

I have a mahogany AD37 you can bang on that till your arm aches.

being in the country the real solution isa trip to civilisation Playa load and get an idea of what works for you. We can all speculate about woods bracing volume design but banging out a few tunes at your physical level will answer a lot of questions.

Wistman · August 2023

Soupman said:

Nice guitar. I'm not a fan of bling either. Looks great , but there's something wrong with the pickguard & strings......they look as though they're on the wrong way round.

Damn, I knew there was a reason it was cheap

Wistman · August 2023

Jez6345789 said:

The obvious thing is to revise you technique but from one banger to another that’s not always easy in the short term.

Not even sure I want to learn to play soft to be honest! In my rockier days, I used to go crazy and leap around a stage constantly with a wireless pack, which was one of the reasons I played in open tunings to begin with... I'm not really a guitarist first and foremost, even though I have played it for 25 years... I'm a performer and when I get into performance, I strum hard, sing hard and give it everything. I also sing in a non-ideal way, with lots of gravel from the throat, but I have tried singing with correct technique and I don't think my voice is as characterful that way - the same might apply to my playing. It is what it is

Wistman · August 2023

Choivert said:

This looks really nice. Some really good grain on that top! And lovely and simple, make it about the sound and not about the bling. Love it.

Thanks! My lefty mate locally has two 100 series Taylors - a 114 and a 150 12-string - so I has played similar guitars before and knew this might work for me... was happy to jump on a bargain, especially as so few decent lefties ever turn up locally!

Wistman · August 2023

MooseAboot said:

I recall trying one in the local shop (long gone) in Edinburgh repeatedly in the early 2000s. It just had something and I should have bought it. Went back one weekend and it was gone,
Congrats.

Thanks! Sorry you missed out on that one back then... looks like they do come up fairly regularly used for righties though... these 110/114 'entry tier' Taylors seem to have a good rep for being incredibly consistent and solid workhorses, not as fancy as the more expensive models but punching above their weight in tone... and also very easy players, especially for anyone with a background in electrics (like me). I am certainly happy with it so far! I also have a GS Mini and that thing is a pleasure to play too, but definitely not as big sounding as this.

guitarjack66 · October 2023

Wistman said:

Well, just an update... the search is over and GAS cured for a while again! Ended up with something quite different from the D15 I was eyeing

I was looking to get something mid-to-high end and was prepared to spend up to £1500 or so, but in the end what I strumbled across and bought was a humble Taylor 110, made in Mexico in 2012. The price was low, so I met up with the seller and gave it a try... and it hits the spot!

A very different sound from my Lakewood, and the two guitars will compliment eachother very nicely. The Lakewood is all dry, earthy woodiness, and this is shimmery highs and lots of washy overtones. Funny how two dreadnoughts that look very similar from a distance are so different.

It might not be the most fancy instrument, but to be honest I am not a fan of bling on guitars anyway (hence the D15 appealing to me aesthetically) and prefer the feel of satin to gloss; my electrics all have finely sanded necks to remove the 'sticky ick' feel.

I was VERY thankful that Taylor installs truss rods, because the action was so high you could have parked a car between the strings and the 12th fret... a couple of screws off, a few tweaks and it is perfect now!

Anyhow, here she is...

I don't see any photo there.

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