Baritone acoustic

thomasross20 · August 2023

Who plays one?
Is this like a 12 string... a bit of a fad you buy thinking it will be great then dump after a couple months?

thecolourbox · August 2023

I've always fancied one because the range of my voice requires me to use a capo on 4th or 5th fret (sometimes higher) for me to reach the songs I like, but that obviously sounds a bit weak and limp being so high up the neck, so thinking a 4th or 5th up is the same as a 5th or 4th down, but should sound much nicer and more unusual (in a good way). Also it would mean the guitar frequencies would be below my voice rather than competing with it.

I do fancy one but don't have the space for it sadly

Edit, also I'm a short arse so I'd probably look like a hobbit playing one of those massive mariachi guitars

Tannin · August 2023

I own one and have another on order nearing completion.

I think, yes, it is rather like a 12-string insofar as it is really a different and more specialised instrument. Whether you take to it and play it forevermore, or whether it wears off after a few months and it sits in the corner gathering dust ... well, that's up to you.

My baritone is my least-played instrument, but quite possibly my most-loved. I never pick it up casually, and I don't practice on it, or work up new material using it. When I play it, I PLAY it, and it probably brings more joy than any of the others.

Everything takes longer on a baritone (it is physically larger, and a good one is quite a lot larger). Even playing a single note takes longer: you have to give the instrument room to breathe, you have to let the note swell and mature into the full, round, deep, satisfying sound that only a good baritone can produce. Think of it as being a bit like a church organ: that 32 foot pipe making the low notes doesn't start and stop in a moment; to get the full effect you have to give it time. If you usually play a given tune at 120 BPM, you'll probably find it works better on the baritone at 100 or at most 110.

Everything is more muscular on a baritone. You have to stretch further with your arms (most baritones - and all good ones - are physically large guitars), the strings are heavier, the action is higher, and the frets are further apart. So your tendons and joints get a workover. This is one reason why you don't play it for hours on end. Do your practice on a standard instrument and swap over to the baritone when you are ready to perform, to record, or to just play for the pure pleasure of it.

Scale length matters! OK, now I'm a scale-length nut: I don't own a short scale guitar (not even Gibson scale, which isn't all that short) and don't want one. Even for my new Brook Lyn (just ordered) I specified a 650mm scale rather than the standard 630mm that model comes with.

Set that aside. With baritones, you are reaching for significantly lower fundamental frequencies, and to create those without compromise you need more scale length. Can you simply use a much thicker string at fairly low tension and get the same note? Sure you can - but that fundamental tone is pretty much all you get. You are not getting all the partials (higher harmonics) which give a note its attack and flavour and the sound is muddy. Because you are not getting decent tension on the string, you have weak attack and poor feel under the right hand. Yep: it sounds nice and deep and mellow first up .... but that's all it does. There is no Plan B. After a week or two you get bored and list the instrument for sale.

(Contrast with a mellow, short scale standard guitar, which is never going to be a bluegrass monster but can nevertheless be used successfully is a dozen different genres. With the higher pitch of a standard instrument, mellow does not have to equal muddy and boring. With a baritone, you need that snap; your lower notes need some definition.)

Tannin · August 2023

Some random observations.

Baritones can easily play out of tune. This is because the 2nd string (equivalent to the B string on a standard guitar) is very thick for a plain steel sting and tends not to intonate properly. Change those strings! Galli, Newtone (to special order), and John Pierce all make baritone sets with a wound 2nd. These are vastly better!

Warm up on something smaller. Don't jump on the baritone first thing in the morning and expect your tendons to like it.

Good ones are really, really hard to find. Nearly all baritones have too short a scale. My two are 737mm (29 inches) which is perfect, but very uncommon. Most factory-made baritones are 685mm (27 inches) or less, which really isn't enough. Many of the better hand-builders recommend fan frets for a baritone. I've never played one but that has to be a great idea.

Resale of hand-made instruments is poor. With a specialist hand-made instrument (such as a baritone) it's even less - so you can pick up some fantastic bargains once in a while. (Somebody here was selling a Tacoma Thunderhawk for £1000 the other week!)

Jump on an aeroplane and come and play my two. (New one should be finished any month now.) It's only a 36,000 kilometre round trip, what are you waiting for?

earwighoney · August 2023

thomasross20 said:

Who plays one?
Is this like a 12 string... a bit of a fad you buy thinking it will be great then dump after a couple months?

12 string being fingerpicked is as good as it gets.

It's incredibly hard to do though. I'd recommend trying one at some point if you can.

Tannin · August 2023

earwighoney said:

12 string being fingerpicked is as good as it gets.

It's incredibly hard to do though. I'd recommend trying one at some point if you can.

Now there is a thing. I've been a 12-string player for most of my adult life. I got my first 12-string as a teenager and was never without one from that time on until about this time last year. So call it 50 years of having a 12-string, and for more than half of that time the 12-string was my primary instrument.

A few years ago I switched from flat picking to fingerstyle. In broad the change has been overwhelmingly positive. I have much better tone and control (and I can do stuff that would be impossible flatpicking, but that part isn't so important). I spend much more energy thinking about what notes to play because I'm not having to think too much about how to play them. These days I don't use a pick at all, not for anything. Once in a while I try it and it never last more than a couple of minutes before I remember how much smoother and better I play with my fingers.

BUT fingerpicking on a 12-string doesn't work. It sounds like crap. I did all sorts of things trying to get a sound I liked, stuck with it for a couple of years, took advice from various people, considered 12-string fingerpicking lessons from various experts who were recommended to me. I listened to each prospective teacher play and thought "Nope, that's not a sound I'm interested in making". Eventually, I listened to a variety of 12-string fingerpickers (not teachers, just noted players) and .... you know, there wasn't one 12-string fingerpicker that I particularly liked listening to, let alone wanted to play like.

Conclusion: 12-strings are for flatpicking.

The thing with fingerpicking is that, by and large, you don't get a choice about upstrokes and downstrokes. You fingers go up, your thumb goes down. (Yes, you can finesse that a bit, but not enough.) And unlike a six-string, upstrokes and downstrokes really matter. You get a completely different sound on the downstroke as opposed to the upstroke and you really, really need to be able to decide which of the two sounds you want for any particular note in a tune. With a flatpick, you can do this easily. You barely even have to think about it. Fingerpicking .... it's just not practical.

After a couple of years of mucking about trying stuff, it came down to a choice. Go back to flatpicking (even if only on the 12) or sell the 12-string. I sold the 12-string.

earwighoney · August 2023

Tannin said:

BUT fingerpicking on a 12-string doesn't work. It sounds like crap.

It shows the YMMV nature of this hobby. I disagree with this statement 100%.

It might not work for your ears but it does for others.

drofluf · August 2023

earwighoney said:

Tannin said:

BUT fingerpicking on a 12-string doesn't work. It sounds like crap.

It shows the YMMV nature of this hobby. I disagree with this statement 100%.

It might not work for your ears but it does for others.

I agree, sometimes I get good sounds from fingerpicking my 12; the bad is because I don’t practice enough. So @Tannin is only half right this time

I’ve put unison G strings on which works better for me

Neilybob · August 2023

I played this 8 string baritone acoustic in Brighton last month. Actually sounded amazing and boomy! Quite a rare beast.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqNdPaTD4rf/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Woodandwires · August 2023

I think Ani Difranco has used a baritone for a large part of her career, I have a live DVD of hers and she is definitely using it to good effect on that

thomasross20 · August 2023

You guys always write really awesome stuff.... when I'm at work with no time to read it! Lol.
I will do so later...
I will need to check out artists that use Baritones. I suspect they may be too bass-heavy for my ears and big to play.
I find the sound interesting, though. Same as 12 strings.
More interesting to own those than a billion different OMs with different woods.

Creed_Clicks · August 2023

Those 8 string baritones are fantastic sounding

drofluf · August 2023

Well an unintended consequence of this thread is that it’s inspired me to dust off the twelve string this afternoon and reacquaint myself with it. Downside is I realise it probably needs a new set of strings

guitarjack66 · August 2023

Creed_Clicks said:

Those 8 string baritones are fantastic sounding

Interesting. Sounds like a 'bassy' 12 string to my ears. The 'jingle jangle' of the 12 string replaced by a more bass heavy sound. Not a bad sound at all.

Zonular · August 2023

I had a Harley benton jumbo baritone, thought it was good for the money, sold it on, asit wasn't getting enough love, playing in dadgad was great fun

Monkeybone · August 2023

I use an Ibanez AEL baritone. Strangely, it's the guitar I'm most creative with, writing wise, but I don't use it much for gigs.

Gmd85 · August 2023

I love mine. It's not an only guitar but it's a great third one. Have had mine for a few years and I haven't become bored with it. Many pieces sound great slowed down (and perhaps thinned out a bit - often it sounds better with 2 or 3 notes rather than a larger chord).

Niche guitars like acoustic baritones tend to not hold their value well. You'll likely take a bath if you buy new and decide it isn't for you, but if you're patient you can likely find a fair deal on a used one, and if you don't like it you'll probably get your money back when you onsell.

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Baritone acoustic

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