Line 6 M5 , M9 , still worth a punt?

Creed_Clicks · August 2023

For the particle reverb alone, possibly worth the point of entry. Do these have any issues, like freezing, parts frying, etc. M9 seems pricey enough even today, but you can at least combine a few effects at once, gives it the advantage over the M5...

roberty · August 2023

The M5 bumped the MD-200 off my big board. I use it for occasional modulation and for EQ shaping into my fuzz. It's great honestly. A second M5 could just as easily bump the DD-200 for delays. In hindsight a hybrid analog/digital setup with a Helix Stomp would have probably been cheaper

english_bob · August 2023

There's nothing out there that does everything the M5 does for anything like the price. Even if you only use it as one of the things it can do - delay pedal, reverb pedal, etc. you'll get your money's worth.

If you're on a budget, or if you want something to cover a few effects that you don't want to spend a lot of money for, it's well worth considering.

If you need a pitch shifter or a reverb with presets you'll need to spend a lot more to get anything else.

IMO it really comes in to its own when you pair it with something that can control it with MIDI (clock sync, expression pedal control, patch change) and something that can move it around the signal chain so you can use more of the effects categories.

I've got two that I use with my ES-5. I've had them for several years and haven't had any problems with reliability.

The downside is that it needs isolated power. You can't daisy chain it or it'll hum like a bastard (as you know, bastards hum very loudly).

545454 · August 2023

If it's mainly for Particle Verb, the Zoom multistomps are also worth a look. Not quite as intuitive to use, but have a lot of really nice sounding effects, up to 6 in a patch.
I did love the interface of the M9 though!

Creed_Clicks · August 2023

roberty said:

The M5 bumped the MD-200 off my big board. I use it for occasional modulation and for EQ shaping into my fuzz. It's great honestly. A second M5 could just as easily bump the DD-200 for delays. In hindsight a hybrid analog/digital setup with a Helix Stomp would have probably been cheaper

Pretty much what I would use it for. Occasional modulation. Some chorus, vibrato, reverb. I can see the advantage of holding out for the HX stomp or Effects though... (I don't use amp modelling)

Creed_Clicks · August 2023

@545454 I had the Zoom. Nice pedal, but I am definitely not one for menu diving etc.

roberty · August 2023

Good point @english_bob I am using mine with a Boss ES-8 switcher. It is perfect for that

To my ears the M5 is gritty and lo-fi but in a pleasing way. I've never been in a situation where I am not able to dial in something I am happy with

I don't use the delays or reverbs but they are excellent. The filters are fun too

Creed_Clicks · August 2023

@english_bob how do you use it with the ES-5 out of curiosity. Or where are you putting it in the chain? I really do need to look into those Boss switcher pedals.

JamesSGBrown · August 2023

Had the M9- found the effects themselves pretty underwhelming- lacking the character of the standalone 4-series pedals for example. not 'bad' per say.
However, given the HX FX can be had for around £300 used, that's a far better deal. Sounds simply awesome and is still being updated.

roberty · August 2023

Creed_Clicks said:

roberty said:

The M5 bumped the MD-200 off my big board. I use it for occasional modulation and for EQ shaping into my fuzz. It's great honestly. A second M5 could just as easily bump the DD-200 for delays. In hindsight a hybrid analog/digital setup with a Helix Stomp would have probably been cheaper

Pretty much what I would use it for. Occasional modulation. Some chorus, vibrato, reverb. I can see the advantage of holding out for the HX stomp or Effects though... (I don't use amp modelling)

I think the HX Stomp would be more complicated for us once we needed two different effects in different parts of the chain. Do-able but not something I would want to faff with in a rehearsal

The guy at PMT said Line 6 keep making the M5 because people keep buying them. I don't think the price has moved much since 2009, so you're benefiting from all that economy of scale

Creed_Clicks · August 2023

JamesSGBrown said:

However, given the HX FX can be had for around £300 used, that's a far better deal. Sounds simply awesome and is still being updated.

This is the temptation, but I think I would use a few reverbs, a vibrato, a chorus, which could be set on one patch, or scene, or snapshot (I can't remember what they call it). As in there are 6 buttons on the HX Effects. I could set the few I'd use and that would be it, less than 6 presets! And silly me didn't realise a midi switcher could make the M5 very easy to use indeed.

impmann · August 2023

I remember Beta Testing the M5, M9 and M13 (I still own the M13 that was used for that testing).

I still have an M5 on my 'big' board - its a swiss army knife. Yes, there are more funky pedals out there - yes, I'm sure that under a microscope you may find more "character" in other pedals (whatever that may mean to you)... and powering it can be a bit of a challenge as it needs true isolation from the rest of the power supplies... but the fact remains that for the money, *nothing* else offers so much for so little. Its utterly brilliant.

I still use the M13 as my 'grab n go' if I'm filling in for something/someone. These days I plug it into an AMPED1 but back in the day, I'd sling that into the front end of *any* amp and could find something gig-worthy - and often more inspiring than my expectation.

So yes, I'd say they're worth a punt - and despite the cynical old hacks on t'internet who'll rubbish anything that isn't the latest emperors new clothes/most expensive booteek/their preferred brand/what Josh is playing this month, they genuinely do deliver.

english_bob · August 2023

Creed_Clicks said:

@english_bob how do you use it with the ES-5 out of curiosity. Or where are you putting it in the chain? I really do need to look into those Boss switcher pedals.

Basically just one M5 in loop 4, another in loop 5, both connected to the ES-5's MIDI output (I needed a MIDI splitter to do this because the M5 can send and receive MIDI commands (MIDI IN/OUT) but doesn't pass on commands received via the MIDI IN).

Because the ES-5 loops can be ordered however you want, I move the M5s around the signal chain depending on what I'm using them for- earlier for pitch shifting, some modulations etc, and at the end of the chain for reverbs and other mods. I don't use it for delay much because I have a DD-500, and I don't use the distortions very much because they aren't very good.

Each patch on the ES-5 switches on the audio loops I want and sends a MIDI message to select the preset I want from the M5. On some of them I use MIDI to control the expression pedal functions- you can do things like flip between different intervals on the harmonizer, or the slow and fast settings on the Leslie sims. Basically, anything that the M5 expression pedal can control can be controlled via MIDI. Likewise, MIDI clock is like tap tempo for all your MIDI pedals, so I can synchronise the M5s to each other (and any other MIDI pedals).

I already had the M5s, but seeing this guy's videos on what could be done with the two in combination was a big part of why I wanted an ES-5:

sgosden · August 2023

roberty said:

Creed_Clicks said:

roberty said:

The M5 bumped the MD-200 off my big board. I use it for occasional modulation and for EQ shaping into my fuzz. It's great honestly. A second M5 could just as easily bump the DD-200 for delays. In hindsight a hybrid analog/digital setup with a Helix Stomp would have probably been cheaper

Pretty much what I would use it for. Occasional modulation. Some chorus, vibrato, reverb. I can see the advantage of holding out for the HX stomp or Effects though... (I don't use amp modelling)

I think the HX Stomp would be more complicated for us once we needed two different effects in different parts of the chain. Do-able but not something I would want to faff with in a rehearsal

That's very easily doable if you use the FX loops on the stomp.

Just set it up before hand .

I had mine set up at 3 points on my last board

Pre amp, fx loop, after atenuator for IR

Secret_Sam · August 2023

I use an M9 in my bass rig. I think it's great.

Upsides: filters, modulation, delays are all good and are synced with the same tap tempo (if you want them to be).

The size is a good balance between portability and having enough controls, sensibly spaced.
.
It is almost as intuitive to use as separate pedals. The learning curve is maybe ten or fifteen minutes.

Downsides: some pitch effects are very glitchy (notably not the model of the boss oc2, which isn't quite like the original, but is very usable). Some people complain about the non-standard power supply, but it doesn't bother me.

jeztone2 · August 2023

I did a covers gig last weekend which was well out of my usual comfort zone. I needed a flanger for one song and a wah wah for another. The M5 did both. I’ve had one on my board since their launch in 2011. They are brilliant pedals. So useable and simple. They sound great.

Creed_Clicks · August 2023

Apparently they break down a lot. If they are fixable once that happens, who knows.

impmann · August 2023

Creed_Clicks said:

Apparently they break down a lot. If they are fixable once that happens, who knows.

Actually… as the ex-Service manager for Line6 UK, I can tell you that statement is the usual internet bollocks.
Because of the improved switch actuators and better support for the switch pcbas on these, the switch issues from the 4x4 range went away with these. The processors aren’t overstressed in them and the software is actually probably the most bulletproof of the Line6 range to that point.
They didn’t really have a weak point - certainly not in their warranty period. And I don’t recall any howlers or horror stories during the 10 years I worked there about this range.

Genuinely - I was there from the beginning of that range. It was probably the best range Line6 made (reliability speaking) of the pre-Yamaha era.

But as ever, Believe what you want. :-)

jeztone2 · August 2023

Creed_Clicks said:

Apparently they break down a lot. If they are fixable once that happens, who knows.

I’ve never had a failure in 12 years of using one on my board.

Creed_Clicks · August 2023

@impmann Thanks for that clarification. I think I'll pick one up, even if it doesn't make the board, it would be handy to have and might try it on some synths etc.
I did trade for a TC Electronic Nova System but it froze after a week, so I had to get a replacement part for it. Nice pedal too but bulky. And probably not worth my while or hassle selling it.

jellybelly · August 2023

It's handy just as a looper tbh but some of the effects still hold up - mods and verbs for example. Not so sure of delays or dirt but perfectly useable.

Agree with reliability on the M9 - I had one that was bulletproof even with everyday use and gigging. Also had an M5 with a dodgy encoder, but I bought that used so couldn't comment on whether it had been abused. I think the M9 is the perfect compromise and was dead easy to use. Glad it was used as the basis for the HX FX in terms of form factor.

jellybelly · August 2023

Just on the HX FX - it's not all the much more used but a big step up in quality, even on the legacy stuff, and the dirt is one of the BEST parts about it. Much more flexible if you need that

jeztone2 · August 2023

Creed_Clicks said:

@impmann Thanks for that clarification. I think I'll pick one up, even if it doesn't make the board, it would be handy to have and might try it on some synths etc.
I did trade for a TC Electronic Nova System but it froze after a week, so I had to get a replacement part for it. Nice pedal too but bulky. And probably not worth my while or hassle selling it.

I had a Nova System for about a year. Played three gigs with it and after the final one it crashed. The sounds were fantastic. Especially if you used the Parametric to dial in the drive tones. But as you say. Incredibly unreliable. I saw Captain Sensible of The Damned using one & then later read how he had to take three of them on tour because they were so temperamental. I’d love to see a Nova MK II. But better made.

Creed_Clicks · August 2023

@jeztone2 I found a link on the TC site for a tech who had the parts I needed, if you wanted to go ahead and get it fixed. If it dies again, it'll be for the dump.

Creed_Clicks · August 2023

jellybelly said:

Just on the HX FX - it's not all the much more used but a big step up in quality, even on the legacy stuff, and the dirt is one of the BEST parts about it. Much more flexible if you need that

That's a good point. I had a look at pedalplayground and messed around with some pedals etc, and a HX FX could eliminate a lot of individual pedals on my board, if not, replace everything except the Walrus Audio Slo!
The HX FX only has two loops though, which could take my Rat and Fuzz.

jeztone2 · August 2023

Creed_Clicks said:

@jeztone2 I found a link on the TC site for a tech who had the parts I needed, if you wanted to go ahead and get it fixed. If it dies again, it'll be for the dump.

Awww man thanks for the offer. But I gave it away. I did really like the sounds. I notice Big Country use them. But I think they have them on separate Midi switchers.

jellybelly · August 2023

Creed_Clicks said:

jellybelly said:

Just on the HX FX - it's not all the much more used but a big step up in quality, even on the legacy stuff, and the dirt is one of the BEST parts about it. Much more flexible if you need that

That's a good point. I had a look at pedalplayground and messed around with some pedals etc, and a HX FX could eliminate a lot of individual pedals on my board, if not, replace everything except the Walrus Audio Slo!
The HX FX only has two loops though, which could take my Rat and Fuzz.

@Creed_Clicks it's worth a go - some of the effects won't quite nail a specific pedal you may have, so worth giving it the old A/B with your key stuff to see if it'll work for you.

With the RAT, you won't need it in the loop. One of the best and most responsive RATS I've ever played (and that's a few) is the Ratatouille model in the HX. It's stunning and I'd question the rat-based experience of anyone who disagrees.

Creed_Clicks · August 2023

@jellybelly Id stick a distortion or OD in the loop
as I’d like to experiment with one before and after reverbs and delays.

jellybelly · August 2023

Creed_Clicks said:

@jellybelly Id stick a distortion or OD in the loop
as I’d like to experiment with one before and after reverbs and delays.

The HX can run up to 9 effects simultaneously so this is perfectly doable without additional pedals (though it will free up some effects blocks!)

You can assign any effect to any pedal, have some effects set to be 'always on' and assigned to no footswitch (a compressor or boost maybe) and multiple effects assigned to be activated by one switch, or even 'flip flop' between two groups with one switch. You can even run parallel paths for multiple instruments - having a couple of effects given over the an acoustic FX chain is perfectly possible, for example.

Way more flexible than the 3 FX/3 alternates + looper of the M9, but more complicated as a result!

Creed_Clicks · August 2023

@jellybelly a very good argument for ditching my pedals and going for the HX Effects..

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Line 6 M5 , M9 , still worth a punt?

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