New acoustic - easy on the fingers

colski · July 2023

I've been getting left hand finger joint pain, (suspect arthritis) and am looking for an electro-acoustic that is nice and easy on the fingers. Been playing a Martin 00018 for maybe 10 years, then a Seagull before that, and they have always required a bit of a "fight" to get nice tone, but I'm getting tired of the fight!

I assumed Taylor would be the logical choice, but I tried a couple and they had surprisingly high action. Any recomendations?

Will mainly be used for teaching, acoustic jazz and theatre work.

Circa £1000ish, Cheers!

Whistler · July 2023

I find easy on the fingers comes down to guitars having a radiused fretboard (so that rules out classical guitars), nut width (what for you is an acceptable range between 41 and 52mm?) neck thickness (more than neck shape but that may influence you) and the body size (a dreadnaught and a parlour will have an effect on LH positioning. Is your LH wrist straight when playing?

Is @razorbill 's Guild X-150 Savoy the sort of guitar you have in mind, perchance?

earwighoney · July 2023

colski said:

I've been getting left hand finger joint pain, (suspect arthritis) and am looking for an electro-acoustic that is nice and easy on the fingers. Been playing a Martin 00018 for maybe 10 years, then a Seagull before that, and they have always required a bit of a "fight" to get nice tone, but I'm getting tired of the fight!
I assumed Taylor would be the logical choice, but I tried a couple and they had surprisingly high action. Any recomendations?
Will mainly be used for teaching, acoustic jazz and theatre work.
Circa £1000ish, Cheers!

Instead of getting a new guitar have you thought about taking the guitar to a tech to have the action lowered.

Your Martin 000-18 is short scale and it should have less tension that something longer scale.

Also have you come across low tension strings? There are a number of them out there, like Newtone Heritage. I recently put on some Pyramid Silvers and they are a lot easier on the fingers than other phosphor bronze strings I have used.

CloudNine · July 2023

A lot of acoustics come brand new with higher actions to allow for people who prefer that, with expectation you can then shave the saddle a bit for everyone else, down from there. I think most guitars of the same scale length can be made to feel relatively similar in terms of playability, with the right saddle, nut and fretwork adjustments.

If you are getting arthritis, I think your best bet would be to look at shorter scale models, or maybe find a guitar that sounds great tuned down a half step. Some really come to life in that tuning and it’s definitely a bit easier on the fingers.

rustneversleeps · July 2023

I’ve tried Martin Flex core strings which seem to me a bit easier on my old the fingers.

colski · July 2023

Whistler said:

I find easy on the fingers comes down to guitars having a radiused fretboard (so that rules out classical guitars), nut width (what for you is an acceptable range between 41 and 52mm?) neck thickness (more than neck shape but that may influence you) and the body size (a dreadnaught and a parlour will have an effect on LH positioning. Is your LH wrist straight when playing?

Is @razorbill 's Guild X-150 Savoy the sort of guitar you have in mind, perchance?

One of the nicest actions I had was a Peerless Martin Taylor Maestro, smooth ebony neck and jumbo frets - played like the proverbial butter.

But I'm sorted for archtops, looking for an electro acoustic, (pref not jumbo/dreadnaught size).

colski · July 2023

earwighoney said:

Instead of getting a new guitar have you thought about taking the guitar to a tech to have the action lowered.

Your Martin 000-18 is short scale and it should have less tension that something longer scale.

I've done a bit of work to it myself, nut, saddle, neck adjustment, I reckon it's as low as it'll go.

thermionic · July 2023

Many new Taylors would benefit from a neck adjustment from an approved tech - it's just undoing three bolts and swapping out two shims. This is usually done under warranty if the action is out of factory spec.Worth asking at the shop that you tried them.

TheMadMick · July 2023

You could always try to tackle the problem the other way round. Arthritis responds to gentle exercise. Work out some finger flexing exercises for yourself and do them regularly and often. Say 3 times a day and then extend the length / number of reps with time. Rule of thumb (sic) 30 seconds or 30 reps to start unless you are having real problems but work from there.

I've done this with my shoulders and hips. It's not a cure but it does help a lot.

AsterixTG · July 2023

The lowest 'easiest' actions I've played on acoustics seem to be ones by luthiers that specialise in more folk/finger picking type guitars - perhaps look for something designed for that. No good obvs, if you want to spank it hard or get a slide out. They tend to get a bit rattly then.

richman6100 · July 2023

earwighoney said:

colski said:

I've been getting left hand finger joint pain, (suspect arthritis) and am looking for an electro-acoustic that is nice and easy on the fingers. Been playing a Martin 00018 for maybe 10 years, then a Seagull before that, and they have always required a bit of a "fight" to get nice tone, but I'm getting tired of the fight!
I assumed Taylor would be the logical choice, but I tried a couple and they had surprisingly high action. Any recomendations?
Will mainly be used for teaching, acoustic jazz and theatre work.
Circa £1000ish, Cheers!

Instead of getting a new guitar have you thought about taking the guitar to a tech to have the action lowered.

This. I fought a bit with the action on my Furch grand auditorium for a couple of years. Initially, I figured that it was me rather than the guitar - my general cackhandedness combined with struggling to get used to the 45mm nut, which is wider than my other acoustics. Then I had Jonny Kinkead lower the action a bit and it's now so much more comfortable (i.e. easier) to play. My left hand used to tire quickly when playing it, now I can noodle on it for an hour or so without any issues. Worth a shot if you like the sound of the Martin you already own. Cheaper than buying something new too.

Soupman · July 2023

Cheapest option would be to try Newtone Heritage strings at just over a tenner, but reading your comments I get the impression that maybe you're really after a new guitar....

I fought with my Lowden for years before getting it set up by a tech. The difference was unbelievable as others have said.
Good luck with your search.

stickyfiddle · July 2023

Apologies if it seems obvious but have you tried a lower string gauge?

There's far too much "wisdom" bandied around about beating ourselves up with thick strings in the name of tone

ICBM · July 2023

Try a Martin SC-13E. Very modern and unconventional for a Martin, but still has the 'Martin sound' to a fair degree. It can also be set up to play extremely easily and electric-like, more like a Taylor (the description of a high action on the ones you've tried is surprising, they don't normally) than a traditional Martin.

If you're having a guitar set up, make sure the tech knows what you mean by *a properly low nut* - almost all are too high from the factory, and many even after being 'set up', and it makes a huge difference to the playability. As already said, lighter and/or lower-tension strings will also help. Newtone 11s are good.

elkay · July 2023

colski said:

I've been getting left hand finger joint pain, (suspect arthritis) and am looking for an electro-acoustic that is nice and easy on the fingers. Been playing a Martin 00018 for maybe 10 years, then a Seagull before that, and they have always required a bit of a "fight" to get nice tone, but I'm getting tired of the fight!
I assumed Taylor would be the logical choice, but I tried a couple and they had surprisingly high action. Any recomendations?
Will mainly be used for teaching, acoustic jazz and theatre work.
Circa £1000ish, Cheers!

When I started reading your post, the first thing that came to mind was 000-18, until I got to the bit where you said you had been 'fighting' yours for 10 years. I'm gobsmacked! In a lifetime of owning and playing a huge variety of top end acoustics, all of which have come and gone, the one remaining keeper for me has been my 000-18, which for me has easily been the easiest to play of all my acoustics. Some years ago i had a bout of carpal tunnel syndrome which stopped me playing for 6 months. I switched down to 10s and was delighted to discover that, not only was there no loss in volume, but the lighter strings actually brought more sparkle to the tone. I used to have a Taylor 812ce, which, on paper, might suit you, but I personally couldn't anything with it, whereas with the 000-18 I could do amazing things I couldn't manage on any of the others. Don't rush into looking for other guitars when you potentially already have one of the best. As others have said, try a professional setup or switching to lower gauge strings. If. as you say, the action is already as low as it will go, changing down on the 000-18 will actually lower the action even further.

Winny_Pooh · July 2023

It's quite simple. Take the Martin for a setup and progressively lower the string gauge.

Slash'N'burn · July 2023

I went down from Martin 12's on my acoustic to Martin 10's, I was expecting it to be weak sounding and brittle but I barely noticed the difference, it sounds great.

Probably best to get your hands checked out, I wouldn't self diagnose arthritis, it could be various things even just overuse. A GP should be able to arrange an xray.

Whistler · July 2023

Winny_Pooh said:

It's quite simple. Take the Martin for a setup and progressively lower the string gauge.

I do this for myself. I start by buying a new nut and saddle so that I can experiement filing those down. The original nut and saddle are safely stored should I need them or for when I sell the guitar.

BluesLover · July 2023

I am increasingly having arthritis type problems, and the best solution for me is a Taylor GS mini, with action lowered at saddle, and strung with 10's.
Experienced acoustic players would probably dislike it, but it works for me!
I'm intrigued by the claims for the Martin SC-13e, but it is too much money for me to justify right now.

sev112 · July 2023

I have found (I’m 57) that it’s really important to stretch my fingers and wrists before playing these days or I get wrist pain

thomasross20 · July 2023

Whistler said:

Winny_Pooh said:

It's quite simple. Take the Martin for a setup and progressively lower the string gauge.

I do this for myself. I start by buying a new nut and saddle so that I can experiement filing those down. The original nut and saddle are safely stored should I need them or for when I sell the guitar.

Do yuo file the nut at the bottom or the nut slots?

earwighoney · July 2023

thomasross20 said:

Whistler said:

Winny_Pooh said:

It's quite simple. Take the Martin for a setup and progressively lower the string gauge.

I do this for myself. I start by buying a new nut and saddle so that I can experiement filing those down. The original nut and saddle are safely stored should I need them or for when I sell the guitar.

Do yuo file the nut at the bottom or the nut slots?

I do the slots. Do a little at time until I get a string height I prefer.

Whistler · July 2023

Me too, I file the slots so that each string is done to my liking.

thomasross20 · July 2023

Hmm.. I've never done the slots. Don't you have to match the arch or the fingerboard/bridge.. think I might muck it up.

Winny_Pooh · July 2023

On some guitars I do the slots then lower the rest of the saddle to match and leave just a faint indent for the string to rest in.

ICBM · July 2023

To get the nut exactly right you have to file the slots - they need to be individually right, and to an accuracy that would be difficult to achieve from the bottom.

It’s not hard to do it right as long as you go carefully - even a couple of file strokes too much can mean a big problem when you get close to the final depth. If you go too deep you will need to replace the nut or use some sort of method to fill the groove slightly - which can be an acceptable fix but it’s still a bit of a bodge compared to not needing to do it!

Proper nut files are quite expensive but nearly essential - you can just about make your own from old needle files and hacksaw blades, but it’s actually more difficult than cutting the nut, and they need more skill to use. Proper ones aren’t *that* expensive anyway.

marxski · July 2023

Same problem here. Took my Eastman to Jonny Kinkade and he called me to say it was ready. He mentioned that all Mahogany guitars are easier than Rosewood/Spruce… I would have been sceptical but who am I to disbelieve a master luthier? Apparently rosewood bodies have less ‘give’ than Mahogany and it is all part of the equation/feel. Over time (in years) they do loosen up a bit.

Littlejonny · July 2023

See if you can get your hands on a Taylor Academy 12e. In my experience they are very easy to play and sound pretty great. Maybe the GS Mini would be similar. They have a great pick-up system too (ES2).

I recently had pains in my hand which really worried me (I do the same job as you - teaching and theatre work) and I’ve been enjoying playing my Martin recently (which I don’t think has a very forgiving neck profile) since I tuned to Eb. Also, I’m consciously working on playing lighter.

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New acoustic - easy on the fingers

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