Is it worth upgrading from a 1936v to an Orange PPC212 (closed back)?

gearaddict · July 2023

I have an Orange TH30 so the Orange cab would look the part but I'm not sure it's worth the outlay. I have a Marshall 1936 with V30s. It's a decent ply one, not the chipboard variety - but I retrofitted the vintage 30s so I'm not sure if they are the best ones. Can't remember where I got them. Is it worth getting a slightly different box with V30s in? People do rave about the PPC212.

nero1701 · July 2023

The only question is..

Which do you like the sound of more?

ICBM · July 2023

The cabinet makes a bigger difference to the sound than you might expect - the Orange cab is very 'chunky' compared to a Marshall one in my experience, even when both have V30s in. V30s are all basically the same if they're not the OEM Marshall or Mesa ones.

Pabcrane · July 2023

ICBM said:

The cabinet makes a bigger difference to the sound than you might expect - the Orange cab is very 'chunky' compared to a Marshall one in my experience, even when both have V30s in. V30s are all basically the same if they're not the OEM Marshall or Mesa ones.

Sorry to hijack thread somewhat but what are the differences between the Marshall Vintage 30 and the stock Celestion one?

ICBM · July 2023

Pabcrane said:

Sorry to hijack thread somewhat but what are the differences between the Marshall Vintage 30 and the stock Celestion one?

The Marshall one seems to have less of a pronounced upper-mid spike, to me - that said, I haven't ever directly compared them in the same cab or with the same amp. The Mesa one is definitely thicker and looser-sounding.

JayGee · July 2023

It’s only an upgrade if you know what you’re trying to achieve and that the thing you’re looking to change will move you towards it.

Anything else is just changing stuff for the sake of changing stuff. We’ve all done it, and I’ve done it more than a few times, it can be fun and it can take you to places you never knew you wanted to go, but you’ve got to be aware of the distinction otherwise you’re potentially setting yourself up for a never ending cycle of disappointments...

gearaddict · July 2023

JayGee said:

It’s only an upgrade if you know what you’re trying to achieve and that the thing you’re looking to change will move you towards it.

Anything else is just changing stuff for the sake of changing stuff. We’ve all done it, and I’ve done it more than a few times, it can be fun and it can take you to places you never knew you wanted to go, but you’ve got to be aware of the distinction otherwise you’re potentially setting yourself up for a never ending cycle of disappointments...

I have an Orange PPC112 which I don't think is British made or particularly highly regarded but compared to my Marshall cab I'd say it has a much smoother, 'sweeter' kind of tone to it. Just easier on the ear. The problem is along with that it sounds a little middy and boxy, which I don't like so much. I'm thinking that this may be down to the small size of the box and that hopefully the better made 2x12 version would have the smoothness without the boxiness. By comparison, the Marshall sounds more open but a bit harsh.

It would be a punt. I'm not so keen on the weight of the Orange. The Marshall is a maneagable 1 man lift and I have castors on it, so it's east to roll about once out of the car. I think the Orange would mean relying on a fellow band member which is not something I like to do

.

I'll keep an eye out for a deal or a used one and try it out before getting rid of the Marshall. Then I can decide what to sell. I think the PPC112 can safely be sold. I've never used it live due to the boxiness, so it's just something to look cool with my Orange head atm. I use it at home.

ICBM · July 2023

gearaddict said:

I have an Orange PPC112 which I don't think is British made or particularly highly regarded but compared to my Marshall cab I'd say it has a much smoother, 'sweeter' kind of tone to it. Just easier on the ear. The problem is along with that it sounds a little middy and boxy, which I don't like so much. I'm thinking that this may be down to the small size of the box and that hopefully the better made 2x12 version would have the smoothness without the boxiness.

I think the PPC112 can safely be sold. I've never used it live due to the boxiness, so it's just something to look cool with my Orange head atm. I use it at home.

If it has the stock V30, the boxiness is partly the speaker. If you want to keep it, put a G12H-30, G12H-75 Creamback or Classic Lead 80 in it - much better. I probably wouldn’t pick the H30 if you want gig with it since it’s right at the power limit.

gearaddict · July 2023

ICBM said:

gearaddict said:

I have an Orange PPC112 which I don't think is British made or particularly highly regarded but compared to my Marshall cab I'd say it has a much smoother, 'sweeter' kind of tone to it. Just easier on the ear. The problem is along with that it sounds a little middy and boxy, which I don't like so much. I'm thinking that this may be down to the small size of the box and that hopefully the better made 2x12 version would have the smoothness without the boxiness.

I think the PPC112 can safely be sold. I've never used it live due to the boxiness, so it's just something to look cool with my Orange head atm. I use it at home.

If it has the stock V30, the boxiness is partly the speaker. If you want to keep it, put a G12H-30, G12H-75 Creamback or Classic Lead 80 in it - much better. I probably wouldn’t pick the H30 if you want gig with it since it’s right at the power limit.

Huh...you've made me question the whole thing now!

I listened to a few comparisons between V30s and Creambacks and the V30s don't come off great, do they? I'm now wondering if I should look at some speaker changes in the Marshall cab rather then a whole new cab with more V30s in it. I guess I could pilot a new speaker in the 1x12 - maybe move it into the 2x12 as a mix with the V30? Or if the 1x12 sounds great with a new speaker, maybe I use that more for gigs. Not sure if a 1x12 would have the spread though. I can mic it up.

polotska · July 2023

If weight is a concern, you might also consider the PPC212V—at 44lbs with the stock Neo Creambacks, it’s a pretty easy lift and has a small footprint. But it’s also open-back and the Creambacks won’t sound like V30s, so probably better suited for clean, light breakup, and crunch sounds rather than heavier ones. And according to the official specs, it’s .19 inches narrower than a TH30 head, so it might look a bit funny.

ICBM · July 2023

gearaddict said:

Huh...you've made me question the whole thing now! I listened to a few comparisons between V30s and Creambacks and the V30s don't come off great, do they? I'm now wondering if I should look at some speaker changes in the Marshall cab rather then a whole new cab with more V30s in it. I guess I could pilot a new speaker in the 1x12 - maybe move it into the 2x12 as a mix with the V30? Or if the 1x12 sounds great with a new speaker, maybe I use that more for gigs. Not sure if a 1x12 would have the spread though. I can mic it up.

An H75 Creamback or a Classic Lead will work well in both applications, so it's probably a good way to eliminate possibilities while not wasting a speaker if you've bought one.

I'm really not sure why Orange put V30s in nearly everything they make - *every* Orange amp I've heard with either G12H-30s or Classic Leads has sounded much better.

gearaddict · August 2023

ICBM said:

gearaddict said:

Huh...you've made me question the whole thing now! I listened to a few comparisons between V30s and Creambacks and the V30s don't come off great, do they? I'm now wondering if I should look at some speaker changes in the Marshall cab rather then a whole new cab with more V30s in it. I guess I could pilot a new speaker in the 1x12 - maybe move it into the 2x12 as a mix with the V30? Or if the 1x12 sounds great with a new speaker, maybe I use that more for gigs. Not sure if a 1x12 would have the spread though. I can mic it up.

An H75 Creamback or a Classic Lead will work well in both applications, so it's probably a good way to eliminate possibilities while not wasting a speaker if you've bought one.

I'm really not sure why Orange put V30s in nearly everything they make - *every* Orange amp I've heard with either G12H-30s or Classic Leads has sounded much better.

So I swapped the V30 in the PPC112 for a G12H-75 - would you expect it to result in a cleaner tone? I feel like there is less gain with the same amp settings. At the same time I swapped the speaker I also swapped the pre-amp valve in the clean channel of my TH30 from a 12AX7 to a 12AT7 to help make that channel a bit more manageable volume-wise. I know I shouldn't change two things at once - schoolboy error! - but tbh the clean pre-amp valve shouldn't have anything to do with the dirty channel, which is where I'm noticing the difference in gain.

I still have my 2x12 loaded with V30s and I think that seems to have more gain with the same amp settings...so I'm thinking it's the speaker, right?

ICBM · August 2023

Yes, a G12H-75 is cleaner-sounding than a V30.

If the valve you’ve changed is V3, that only affects the clean channel.

Petepassion · August 2023

I have an early eighties 1937 cab(bass version) with a couple of G12-65’s in and sounds great. Portable and big sound, like greenbacks on steroids.

gearaddict · August 2023

ICBM said:

Yes, a G12H-75 is cleaner-sounding than a V30.

If the valve you’ve changed is V3, that only affects the clean channel.

Pretty sure that's the one I changed. Back left.

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Is it worth upgrading from a 1936v to an Orange PPC212 (closed back)?

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