Creating songs - drum machine?

manicguitarist · July 2023

I’ve always written songs with a drummist. Jam away, song develops then add lyrics.

Currently without a band. Which makes me sad, I mean I’ve been playing in heavy metal bands for nigh on 40yrs. Any ways….

With all this AI malarkey- is there a drum machine that listens to what you’re playing and jams along?
I am thinking probably not, but also probably not that far away.

Anyways….in the absence of that - what drum machine would you recommend?
I’ll be plugging it into my mixing desk and feeding it through my PA to jam along with - so no PC based solutions please.

Whilst I can explain to a drummist the kind of sound I want (“play ba-dumpa-dumpa here”) I have no real idea about drumming* so please bear that in mind.

*beyond standing stage left for my whole gig career has truly fucked my right ear cos of the cymbals

blobb · July 2023

Trio+

blobb · July 2023

(and it's got a Heavy Metal 'style' setting - although it's more nu-metal to me, all double bass pedal and hectic dugga dugga stuff. not so much Bill Ward).

manicguitarist · July 2023

blobb said:

(and it's got a Heavy Metal 'style' setting - although it's more nu-metal to me, all double bass pedal and hectic dugga dugga stuff. not so much Bill Ward).

Can you tell me more about it? I know literally zip about it.

manicguitarist · July 2023

Also - thank you.

PolarityMan · July 2023

I love drum programming so if you record some riffs to a click I'd be happy to add some drums.

manicguitarist · July 2023

PolarityMan said:

I love drum programming so if you record some riffs to a click I'd be happy to add some drums.

Thank you.

It’s more an evolving process, I crank up my old Marshall stack and noodle away and the drummist plays something and then it goes from there.

roberty · July 2023

I'm interested in programming drums for demos now. Be interested to know how you do it @PolarityMan. I am using Pro Tools

blobb · July 2023

manicguitarist said:

blobb said:

(and it's got a Heavy Metal 'style' setting - although it's more nu-metal to me, all double bass pedal and hectic dugga dugga stuff. not so much Bill Ward).

Can you tell me more about it? I know literally zip about it.

It's a pedal. You arm it, play a couple of riffs, it detects the length, tempo and style and generates a drummer and bass player that play along. The drummer is assembled from a set of samples in it's libraray but they are real drum fills, you can't see the joins. The bass blayer is some synthesised hybrid which can get a bit off key if you let it or you can one shot it. It has a looper so second time around you arm the loop and record your riffs over the top. Then away you go, noodle heaven. Loop out to amp and rhythm to your interface. And you can sequence 5 parts. Here's a quick demo.

manicguitarist · July 2023

blobb said:

Trio+

Thank you. Looked into it-seems just what I need.

Ordered one. Cheers doood!

blobb · July 2023

Did you gto for the plus version? - the original didn't have the looper.

stickyfiddle · July 2023

I thought a lot about this a few years back. I took up drums instead. Still haven't recorded anything...

manicguitarist · July 2023

blobb said:

Did you gto for the plus version? - the original didn't have the looper.

Yes, trio +.
got an additional footswitch as well.

Jonathangus · July 2023

I guess it's too late to point out the one in the Classifieds...

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/250469/pedals

manicguitarist · July 2023

Jonathangus said:

I guess it's too late to point out the one in the Classifieds...

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/250469/pedals

Damnit!
Me and my premature GAS....

Vintage65 · July 2023

I use EzDrummer 3. Of course the drums can be replaced at a later time, either real or programmed, but it does the job for sketching out new ideas.

manicguitarist · July 2023

Update:
Got a Trio plus.

Brilliant bit of kit.

Am “training” it through one stack and then playing along with it outputting drums&bass to the PA and looped guitar to another stack.

Just need to wire up a midi patch switch to analog momentary connection so I can have it change song parts as I change channel via my pedal board.

\m/

marxski · July 2023

Apple drummer in Logic is supposed to ‘follow’ a track you specify.

EZ Drummer 3 promised something similar.

I found them both fantastically average at it. In the end I threw the towel in and hired/paid a session guy. It just turned into too much faffing about. For me it was a fast track to kill a passion.

Both the above sound really good but I don’t think they are anything special at the ‘playing to music’ thing.

octatonic · July 2023

marxski said:

Apple drummer in Logic is supposed to ‘follow’ a track you specify.

EZ Drummer 3 promised something similar.

I found them both fantastically average at it. In the end I threw the towel in and hired/paid a session guy. It just turned into too much faffing about. For me it was a fast track to kill a passion.

Both the above sound really good but I don’t think they are anything special at the ‘playing to music’ thing.

Follow was never meant to replace a real drummer.

Drummer is really just a series of presets arranged on a grid, rather than in a list.
There isn't a lot of intelligence in there- although I expect that to change in successive releases.

blobb · July 2023

manicguitarist said:

Update:
Got a Trio plus.
Brilliant bit of kit.
Am “training” it through one stack and then playing along with it outputting drums&bass to the PA and looped guitar to another stack.

Just need to wire up a midi patch switch to analog momentary connection so I can have it change song parts as I change channel via my pedal board.

\m/

Good isn't it? .... and we await Trio + + (like that's ever going to happen.). I like throwing random stuff at mine to see what it comes up with. You can get some good timing variations if you know your 3, 4, 5 & 7 times tables, even though it officially only does 3 & 4 time. That metal drummer needs to calm down a bit though.

willo · August 2023

marxski said:

I found them both fantastically average at it. In the end I threw the towel in and hired/paid a session guy.

Can I ask - how did you find the session guy? And did they do the recurring at their side and send it over, or did you get them into your studio?

I'm asking because I'm rubbish with programming drums and need some tracks that cover a lot of time signature changes, so it all gets complicated, too complicated, for me to do.

AntonHunter · August 2023

willo said:

marxski said:

I found them both fantastically average at it. In the end I threw the towel in and hired/paid a session guy.

Can I ask - how did you find the session guy? And did they do the recurring at their side and send it over, or did you get them into your studio?

I'm asking because I'm rubbish with programming drums and need some tracks that cover a lot of time signature changes, so it all gets complicated, too complicated, for me to do.

There's a bunch of session players with their own recording setups on Fiverr.com. Can't vouch for any in particular, but a decent place to start at least.

marxski · August 2023

willo said:

marxski said:

I found them both fantastically average at it. In the end I threw the towel in and hired/paid a session guy.

Can I ask - how did you find the session guy? And did they do the recurring at their side and send it over, or did you get them into your studio?

I'm asking because I'm rubbish with programming drums and need some tracks that cover a lot of time signature changes, so it all gets complicated, too complicated, for me to do.

It’s someone I’ve know for 20 years and played on an album I did. He’s very good at serving the song.

The approach we are using is to have 8 rehearsals of 3 hours each and gradually build up the song repertoire. Then at the beginning of October we are in a commercial studio for two days tracking the drums and guitar. The plan is for other stuff to be recorded a track at a time. Some with click some without. The songs clearly have natural tempo builds and I’m buggered if I can be bothered programming tempo maps for a click. We are mainly going to ‘vibe it out’. Man.

fretmeister · August 2023

@manicguitarist ;

You can get real drums played for you on Fiverr.

I've used this guy for several tunes and they've worked out great

https://www.fiverr.com/glennwelman

manicguitarist · August 2023

@fretmeister ;
Cheers dood! It's working out really well with the Trio+ tbh, but thx anyways.

fretmeister · August 2023

manicguitarist said:

@fretmeister ;;
Cheers dood! It's working out really well with the Trio+ tbh, but thx anyways.

He's in this "Secret Shopper" type review vid as one of the drummers.

Funkfingers · September 2023

marxski said:

Apple drummer in Logic is supposed to ‘follow’ a track you specify.

EZ Drummer 3 promised something similar.

I found them both fantastically average at it.

The Apple Logic Drummer algorithm "Follow" function alters the drum part to better fit the pitched instrument(s) after the fact rather than in real time. Even then, it only gets you so far.

To imitate human performance nuances, it is necessary to experiment with the editing pages' complexity/loudness grid, push/drag, swing and fills controls. Introduce dynamic variety.

For hyper complexity, it may necessary to convert the drummer track graphic representation to a MIDI Piano Roll for detailed editing of timing and velocity.

For one of my musical collaboration Projects, in the complex time signature section, it was more satisfactory to drag MIDI drum and percussion events into timing alignment with the acoustic guitar notes than forcing the guitar into strict tempo and losing all human feel.

Once upon a time, human drummers used to speed up during the more exciting portions of a composition - usually the chorus. Use the dedicated Tempo track to alter the sections by a few BPM. Ramp up for half a bar into a chorus. Ramp down again smoothly just before the beginning the next verse.

If your Project includes MIDI sequenced keyboard parts, these will follow the tempo changes too.

Once you become familiar with how some performance features appear on a MIDI Piano Roll grid, you can draw them in using the mouse pointer. (Stunts such as running a hand quickly across the keys of a Hammond organ.)

Vintage65 · September 2023

fretmeister said:

@manicguitarist ;;;;

You can get real drums played for you on Fiverr.

I've used this guy for several tunes and they've worked out great

https://www.fiverr.com/glennwelman

That dude is unreal and quite cheap for what he is offering. He's played for Jordan Rudess too.

https://www.youtube.com/@GlennWelman/videos

Vintage65 · September 2023

fretmeister said:

manicguitarist said:

@fretmeister ;;;;;;;
Cheers dood! It's working out really well with the Trio+ tbh, but thx anyways.
He's in this "Secret Shopper" type review vid as one of the drummers.

I do like the way Britt B plays, but I would ask Glenn W to play in that style for a fifth of the price, and you do get a couple of revisions.

I tried going down the midi drum editing road, but after watching tons of drum cam videos, I quickly realised that I was never going to beat a human

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Creating songs - drum machine?

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