Filling out your live sound when you're a guitarist down

Jonathangus · June 2023

So, gig in a couple of months' time, for which our other guitarist will be out of the country. Looking for simple ways we can fill things out so we don't sound empty. Ideas so far:

Steer clear of single-note stuff.
Distortion and/or octave up for the bass.
Gratuitous use of crash cymbals from the drummer.

Anything else? TIA.

mrkb · June 2023

Power chords and attitude

Jonathangus · June 2023

You've heard me play. Power chords is about my level!

Sporky · June 2023

You can play guitar and kazoo at the same time.

AntonHunter · June 2023

What style of music?

Double tracker pedal into two amps?

LionAquaLooper · June 2023

Lots and lots of chorus effects

fretmeister · June 2023

The single most important thing is the arrangement.

Power Trios do not sound empty, even during solos because the arrangements are made for that combination of instruments.

The very first thing to do is to make your bassist listen to the best power trios / 3+singer bands. The Who, Cream, Mr Big etc etc.
Then adjust the parts themselves.

There is no need to start adding octave ups or extra drive for the bass, and I say this as a bassist.

If a 2 guitar arrangement usually has the bass playing roots behind the solo then when the 2nd guitar is missing make the bass part more mobile - have a bit of walking in it. Maybe some octaves matching the kick and snare. But don't just do that. Give it variety. Start with just the root, then add some octaves, then make turn those roots into walking parts.

That's all you need.

No tech / pedal can fix and arrangement when there is a primary instrument missing. Fix the arrangement.

But also - enjoy the space. So many bands follow a wall of noise approach that frankly gets damn tiring for every song. Enjoy the space and us it to give the tunes more variety.

Cirrus · June 2023

When the guitar solo starts, move around more. This distracts the audience.

Jalapeno · June 2023

fretmeister said:

But also - enjoy the space. So many bands follow a wall of noise approach that frankly gets damn tiring for every song. Enjoy the space and us it to give the tunes more variety.

Without the other guy banging out distorted 6 string barre chords filling the overall sound with mush, it'll be great !

p90fool · June 2023

Wis'd @fretmeister and as a follow on from that I'd use it as an opportunity to make sure you're holding something in reserve on your rhythm parts.

In my solos I aim for simple melodies and use a lot of sliding octaves, they usually end up more tuneful and relevant than my finest fret wankery anyway, so use it to reassess your approach generally.

It can seem like a limitation, but the best thing is that you can control the dynamics of the whole band just using your hands, that's real musical freedom.

Roland · June 2023

I wrote a long answer, then noticed that @fretmeister had already covered most of it.

Enjoy the space in your sound! Unless the other guitar is playing a key part of a song then you probably need to do less than you think. I often find that bands have too much going on, and dropping an instrument make it much easier to hear the song.

If you really want some sound tips then get your bass player to use a bit more treble. This is much better for filling out the lower mid area than adding an Octaver, which I think adds mud. Apart from that listen to the spaces, and adjust my own playing style. Unless you get a chance to re-write bass and guitar parts then I’d do simple things: use a bit more aggression in places, and holding some notes for longer.

Danny1969 · June 2023

I tended to use a Roland SPD a lot. Imagine you are covering Hard to handle by The Black Crows, if you start to solo over the bass only then it will sound a bit empty. If however you hit a pad on the SPD that has a simple B chord held on an organ then it will sound nice and full behind the solo. If you know a bit of music theory then you can change very little on the SPD but the bass player will change the bass root note and that gives the impression the pad sound has changed.

An Em7 is a Gmaj if the bass player hits a G root. A Bm becomes a Gmaj7 if the bass player shifts form B to G
A and C# held over a bass root note of A will create an Amaj chord but if the bass player changes that root to F# then it will sound to the audience that the SPD has shifted to an F#minor chord even though it hasn't. You can use this trick for any relative maj / min keys. There are many tricks you can use like this to make a 3 piece band sound really full. I used to play horn parts with my foot while playing chord changes on the guitar.

For a lot of pop stuff I will play snatches of chord amongst the solo. This gives the listener the chords to follow while the solo is playing. For simple wedding. / pub stuff like Sex on fire / Valerie / Malice I will play both parts at the same time. Hybrid picking is your friend here.

The most important thing of all though if you want to just concentrate on soloing without all the technical stuff ... is to build your solo's so they reference the chord changes on their own. Use chord tones, especially thirds and fifths ... stay away from pentatonic shapes and think about the chords as you are soloing over them so you reference them within the actual solo.

There's other stuff too ... drone strings, pedal points, creative delay, halo reverb set with long decay but low wet mix

Jonathangus · June 2023

Excellent stuff - thanks, chaps!

AntonHunter said:
What style of music?

Double tracker pedal into two amps?

Ah, excellent question. Covers; sort of 80s/90s rocky/punky stuff, or pop turned into rocky/punky stuff.

Borrowing his amp and splitting between the two might help to beef up the guitar sound a bit.

Wazmeister · June 2023

Two amps.

Keefy · June 2023

If feasible, play the solo (or parts of it) an octave lower.

Sporky · June 2023

The first time I saw Big Boy Tomato (yes, they were a real band) one of their guitarists couldn't make the gig. The second time they had both. They were better with just one.

Cool story, huh?

mrkb · June 2023

Sporky said:

The first time I saw Big Boy Tomato (yes, they were a real band) one of their guitarists couldn't make the gig. The second time they had both. They were better with just one.

Cool story, huh?

Was one of the guitarists a bit green? IGMC…..

LastMantra · June 2023

Get another guitar player.

AntonHunter · June 2023

Wazmeister said:

Two amps.

Honestly, first time I tried this I was blown away. I was teaching a class, the song that week was a Green Tune, I think American Idiot, so I rigged up two amps, I think just a Laney Cub combo and whatever soulless Orange head + 4×12. Switching between them with a Boss Line Selector, sounded huge with both on, much greater than the sum of their parts.

No fancy business, just dual mono with two differently voiced dirty ish amps.

fastonebaz · June 2023

Put Yr guitar through the PA as well to get a bit of sound spread.

If there are solos, tell the bass player to dig on extra hard or hit a fuzz pedal during them to boost their sound level and then back to normal for the vocals.

Works for my band.

ElectricXII · June 2023

If you own, or can can borrow, an EHX B9 or C9 pedal it will give you the option to mix in some organ emulation along with your guitar tone. It won't work for everything but for many songs it will give the illusion that there is a keyboard in the mix.

maharg101 · June 2023

Ensure you are using a Custom Shop strat with some fancy schmanchy pickups, plus about 20 grands worth of amps and pedals, so that the audience are too awed by your gear to pay much attention to the music

Or make some subtle changes to the arrangement and enjoy the space !

EricTheWeary · June 2023

I’ve watched people use loopers and samples but often it’s so obvious it’s slightly painful and for people who use it well it’s a skill set in itself. Unless it’s something you already do then in the heat of a gig I’d be wary.

From watching others and a bit of youtubing a dry-wet set up can add some depth to a guitar sound. I think it's largely lost in bigger bands but for single guitar band it can make a difference. More faff (and potentially more expense) but if you've got access to two amps then anything wet (delay, chorus, etc) just in the one amp can work really well.

Having said that I like really stripped down, single guitar sounds like early Rory Gallagher, The Jam or The Toy Dolls. Use of space, dynamics and guitar orchestration (for want of a better phrase!). Weller in The Jam, for example, moving between riffing, simple rhythm playing and soloing in the same song.

Jonathangus · June 2023

AntonHunter said:

Wazmeister said:

Two amps.

Honestly, first time I tried this I was blown away. I was teaching a class, the song that week was a Green Tune, I think American Idiot, so I rigged up two amps, I think just a Laney Cub combo and whatever soulless Orange head + 4×12. Switching between them with a Boss Line Selector, sounded huge with both on, much greater than the sum of their parts.

No fancy business, just dual mono with two differently voiced dirty ish amps.

Actually that's quite similar to our usual setup - I'm into a 2204, he's into a Dual Terror, or more recently, a Rockerverb. So I'll see if I can borrow the Dual Terror, split the signal with a spare TU-2, and run the DT as a second dry amp. Want to keep it simple - it's not like we get paid or anything - but still want it to sound big.

fastonebaz said:

Put Yr guitar through the PA as well to get a bit of sound spread.

If there are solos, tell the bass player to dig on extra hard or hit a fuzz pedal during them to boost their sound level and then back to normal for the vocals.

Works for my band.

It's an outdoor thing, so we'll all be mic'd up. And I try to keep solos to a minimum, as I'm not blessed with your facility in that department.

Barney · June 2023

Iff the drums and bass are good it shouldn't really be a problem ...sometimes 2 guitars sound to much any ways iff not worked on a bit ....it's a good idea to use the space as well ..

Stratavarious · June 2023

Shhhh… don”t tell ‘em… but I get a kick out of being a guitarist down… I get to play it all as I hear it in my head,,, not just the twiddly bits.

Lay into it, solo lower down, turn your amp up and use all the dynamics… you’ll enjoy it.

prowla · June 2023

A bit of echo/reverb.

Teyeplayer · June 2023

As outlined above: two amps. One set clean with a good helping of reverb, one set to a light break up, dry. Push one or both with further pedals if required. As they will be going through the pa, get the sound guy to pan hard L&R but ensure the two are balanced. You won’t want the other guitarist back.

Musicwolf · June 2023

Have you tried just getting into the practice room without the other guitarist and seeing how it sounds? You may be pleasantly surprised. It will certainly let you know where the problems, if any, lie.

flying_pie · June 2023

Get your keyboard player to play the guitar parts with his spare hand....

ryanverbena · June 2023

Set up your other guitarists gear and employ the Grohl technique:

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Filling out your live sound when you're a guitarist down

Comments