Serious allegations against Till Lindemann of Rammstein

fretmeister · June 2023

https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article245688134/Till-Lindemann-and-Rammstein-Behind-the-scenes.html?fbclid=IwAR2qJI6XucYbiC_gIJ2uR3OoI7XCP0PpoKBwQOiRX2PBEOoLrbvA5L3HD_c

Lots a European media have been looking at this over the last couple of days.

This is not good.

DefaultM · June 2023

File that under 'books I've judged by their cover that turned out to be right'.

fretmeister · June 2023

DefaultM said:

File that under 'books I've judged by their cover that turned out to be right'.

Books you’ve judged by their cover and waited for a verdict?

DefaultM · June 2023

I thought that 'turned out' implied after confirmation it's true and that I wouldn't have to actually write 'allegedly at this point'.

How did you imagine people would respond when you started the thread? That people would find it surprising that a guy that presents himself in the way he does has been accused of this?

fretmeister · June 2023

DefaultM said:

I thought that 'turned out' implied after confirmation it's true and that I wouldn't have to actually write 'allegedly at this point'.

How did you imagine people would respond when you started the thread? That people would find it surprising that a guy that presents himself in the way he does has been accused of this?

"Turned out to be true" in no way implies that it is after confirmation. "Turned out" is past tense!

I don't know what you mean by "Presents himself" - I only know his stage persona and I wouldn't base anything in real life on a stage act.

richh · June 2023

@fretmeister makes a very good point.

BTW, reading the article that the OP linked to, there are a couple of things that seem odd. First, they claim that certain fans are given 'row zero' access. Having been at every UK Rammstein show from 2016 onwards, I don't think this is correct. In whatever standing area you've got tickets for, it was purely first come, first served - nobody got any special access. Unless they mean some kind of backstage access.

Second, when they mention song titles with potentially suggestive lyrics / titles, this is all massively tongue in cheek stuff. Who knows what the band members are really like in real life, but how they present on stage and in videos is deliberately provocative. I did meet them at a meet and greet - essentially just a signing session, and even there you got a sense that there was on on stage persona and a more real persona. But who knows?

Anyway, it is very easy to jump to conclusions, when in reality, none of us know. The way this is being presented, you'd think that Crazy Arthur Brown routinely set fire to himself as opposed to it just being a stage act. Same for Alice Cooper, Screaming Lord Sutch, etcetera. This is a stage act, which may or may not reflect on the real person. We cannot make assumptions about people based on this kind of thing, surely?

Alterlifeson · June 2023

richh said:

@fretmeister makes a very good point.

BTW, reading the article that the OP linked to, there are a couple of things that seem odd. First, they claim that certain fans are given 'row zero' access. Having been at every UK Rammstein show from 2016 onwards, I don't think this is correct. In whatever standing area you've got tickets for, it was purely first come, first served - nobody got any special access. Unless they mean some kind of backstage access.

I think 'row zero' refers to the after parties that are known to get rowdy. There is a few accounts of (attractive) women in the first couple of rows in the crowd being asked to come backstage after the show and join in. I think Til is the main partier of the band, I read an interview with Richard not long ago stating that he has cut back on drinking big time.

There are various accounts from people who have been to these things on Reddit and there are various substances being abused, naked people etc. Could all be BS but it reads as true to me. Til does seem like a strange guy even off stage.

I guess this was bound to happen eventually.

theatreanchor · June 2023

Oh dear.

RobDavies · June 2023

I found myself in a social media rabbit hole after looking up the complainant. So many different stories and accusations flying around.

It’s very difficult to write something balanced without sounding like I’m ‘victim blaming’, so I’ll probably leave it there.

If guilty, I hope Lindemann has the book thrown at him.

S56035 · June 2023

**deleted post to avoid pointless semantic internet argument**

roberty · June 2023

theatreanchor said:

Oh dear.

Yeah : /

Switch625 · June 2023

The drugging part of the story is absolutely abhorrent and if true, those responsible should be fully prosecuted.

The rest of the story isn't much different from what bands were doing in the 80s. I remember watching a Ross Halfin interview where he basically said women were hand picked by crew members for Def Leppard (at the height of their fame around Hysteria) and taken under the stage for all sorts of shennanigans.

fretmeister · June 2023

Switch625 said:

The drugging part of the story is absolutely abhorrent and if true, those responsible should be fully prosecuted.

The rest of the story isn't much different from what bands were doing in the 80s. I remember watching a Ross Halfin interview where he basically said women were hand picked by crew members for Def Leppard (at the height of their fame around Hysteria) and taken under the stage for all sorts of shennanigans.

That was 40 years ago.

Times change, as they should.

octatonic · June 2023

Switch625 said:

The drugging part of the story is absolutely abhorrent and if true, those responsible should be fully prosecuted.

The rest of the story isn't much different from what bands were doing in the 80s. I remember watching a Ross Halfin interview where he basically said women were hand picked by crew members for Def Leppard (at the height of their fame around Hysteria) and taken under the stage for all sorts of shennanigans.

It is a bit different with Rammstein though, because their aesthetic is hugely based around kink and BDSM and the main tenet of that lifestyle is consent.
Safety and consent are the most important considerations.

Rammstein have traded on their image being part of that world for over 30 years- it is central to their albums and their live shows. Accessing that whilst being either unaware of consent and safety or simply not concerned by it is a big fucking deal.

Clearly we should wait to see whatever investigation or litigation takes place before making a judgment but it is hugely disappointing to have these accusations levelled at Till. I hope they are untrue (obvs more for the people who have been allegedly drugged and assaulted), but if they are true then justice should be done.

lustycourtier · June 2023

I remember a very similar story about the killers (not Brandon though) that came to nothing. I do hope there’s no truth in this.

Til is a strange fellow, lives alone in a small village in German forest I believe.

octatonic · June 2023

This is in the news today too:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jun/05/dj-paul-oakenfold-accused-of-sexual-harassment-by-former-assistant

fretmeister · June 2023

octatonic said:

Switch625 said:

The drugging part of the story is absolutely abhorrent and if true, those responsible should be fully prosecuted.

The rest of the story isn't much different from what bands were doing in the 80s. I remember watching a Ross Halfin interview where he basically said women were hand picked by crew members for Def Leppard (at the height of their fame around Hysteria) and taken under the stage for all sorts of shennanigans.

It is a bit different with Rammstein though, because their aesthetic is hugely based around kink and BDSM and the main tenet of that lifestyle is consent.
Safety and consent are the most important considerations.

Rammstein have traded on their image being part of that world for over 30 years- it is central to their albums and their live shows. Accessing that whilst being either unaware of consent and safety or simply not concerned by it is a big fucking deal.

Clearly we should wait to see whatever investigation or litigation takes place before making a judgment but it is hugely disappointing to have these accusations levelled at Till. I hope they are untrue (obvs more for the people who have been allegedly drugged and assaulted), but if they are true then justice should be done.

That's a very good point. It rather skewers the ^ about "presents himself" nonsense.
With consent being the prime directive of BDSM any backstage guests should have actually been safer at a Rammstein show than at a different one. Everybody should be safe everywhere, but you get the point.

octatonic · June 2023

fretmeister said:

octatonic said:

Switch625 said:

The drugging part of the story is absolutely abhorrent and if true, those responsible should be fully prosecuted.

The rest of the story isn't much different from what bands were doing in the 80s. I remember watching a Ross Halfin interview where he basically said women were hand picked by crew members for Def Leppard (at the height of their fame around Hysteria) and taken under the stage for all sorts of shennanigans.

It is a bit different with Rammstein though, because their aesthetic is hugely based around kink and BDSM and the main tenet of that lifestyle is consent.
Safety and consent are the most important considerations.

Rammstein have traded on their image being part of that world for over 30 years- it is central to their albums and their live shows. Accessing that whilst being either unaware of consent and safety or simply not concerned by it is a big fucking deal.

Clearly we should wait to see whatever investigation or litigation takes place before making a judgment but it is hugely disappointing to have these accusations levelled at Till. I hope they are untrue (obvs more for the people who have been allegedly drugged and assaulted), but if they are true then justice should be done.

That's a very good point. It rather skewers the ^ about "presents himself" nonsense.
With consent being the prime directive of BDSM any backstage guests should have actually been safer at a Rammstein show than at a different one. Everybody should be safe everywhere, but you get the point.

Thanks.
No community is a monolith and there are awful people in all of them.
It just sucks it is a band I actually care about.
That doesn't change my response as to what should happen if the accusations are true.

earwighoney · June 2023

In my head I always thought of Rammstein as a German Marilyn Manson. Seems like they are closer aligned than I initially thought...

webrthomson · September 2023

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/till-lindemann-sexual-assault-claims-prosecutors-drop-investigation-1234814061/

Cols · September 2023

webrthomson said:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/till-lindemann-sexual-assault-claims-prosecutors-drop-investigation-1234814061/

Lindemann’s lawyers said, “The rapid termination of investigative proceedings by the Berlin state prosecutor’s office shows that there is insufficient evidence that our client allegedly committed sexual offenses.”

Doesn’t exactly sound like his own lawyers are convinced of his innocence...

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Serious allegations against Till Lindemann of Rammstein

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