Interesting article in the Grauniad today, with a reflection on Mike Kerr (new nickname "Wang", presumably, amongst kids at Big Weekend) making a pillock of himself last weekend.
Thought was worth a separate discussion, rather than bring back the thread specifically about Royal Blood.
It's the latest of a long line of musical stars who have made pillocks of themselves while proclaiming rock = good and pop = bad. It's also an opinion which is often implied or openly expressed here (as although every music genre uses guitar, it's rock that got most of us here into it).
Most of the ideas about credibility are dubious at best, however, it's hard to argue there hasn't been a certain magic to bands who write their own songs, play their own instruments and have obvious talent.
Still, are we going to argue that George Michael hasn't got talent? Prince wasn't really a rocker and it's actually extremely hard to argue against the talent and hard work necessary to make it in a pure pop act like Girls Aloud or One Direction (and being easy on the eye is a gift you are born with, so arguably a talent). Hell just the diet is more work than I'd want. Lewis Capaldi fortunately has the voice and the songwriting talent to avoid that bit.
I'm a fan of Youtuber James Hargreaves, and his campaign to get "real" music, which to him, and to some extent to me as well, means alternative rock, which he identifies as dying out with the Arctic Monkeys. Presumably chucking Wolf Alice and Nothing But Thieves in the "pop" pile... He made a great video recently though about the new industry meaning that signing to a major label is a terrible idea...
So what do we think? Does anyone really believe like Mike Kerr that he automatically should get massive applause for his worthy "rock" from an audience sitting waiting for Lewis Capaldi? Are they fools for not sitting waiting for Whitesnake or Extreme? Or in reality should a new industry, free from the major label's evil cash-grabbing produce unparalleled creativity and freedom for artists, regardless of genre?
We have to be so very careful, what we believe in...
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When I used to play in original material bands we had a running joke about people who were into "Proper music" which was essentially looping 4 diatonic chord, mid paced indie rock with no riffs, or dynamics where every track built up over 6 minutes to an epic outro where the singer chanted "YEAH, CMON SOUUUUUUL" or something similar essentially modelled on Embrace, Richard Ashcroft and later period Oasis.
We used to joke that "Proper music" was our least favourite genre.
It's also coupled with a belief that "Proper music" is objectively the best music and all other people have been tricked by something evil called "MARKETING" which makes kids enjoy Harry Styles rather than the Second Coming by the Stone Roses.
It's also coupled with the belief that musical talent constantly goes unrecognised. Which I disagree with as when I was gigging around Camden we saw the Magic Numbers, The Darkness and Hard Fi while they were still unsigned and it was obvious they were so much better than all the other bands we played with we might as well give up.
There seems to be this belief that rock music is eternal rather than acknowledging that it's something that only really appeared in the late 60's and has already been in decline for around 15 years now.
It will never die, but it's becoming "genre music" rather than pop music like Jazz, Folk or Blues which is why you are starting to see the classic rock revue shows and rock musicals etc.
As an artist, you can't really transcend genres unless you literally dabble in all of them - which could become an academic exercise in playing music you don't actually like, just for the sake of it. And as a listener, I'd buy the album (so old-fashioned) and skip three quarters of the tracks.
Of course there are artists who've glided, chameleon-like, through different genres over the years - Bowie being probably the most obvious one. The Beatles changed enormously over less than a decade, but they were true pioneers. Even Queen were very different at the end of their career than they were at the start. Madonna has reinvented herself multiple times and (although I'm not familiar with much of her music) I think Taylor Swift has recorded some pretty eclectic music?
From a personal point of view, I'm never going to say "rock = good and pop = bad", I got into music in the first place by listening to the Top 40 in the 1970s. But my preference is for rock music, and I'm not going to go out of my way to listen to artists from other genres just so I can try to appreciate their talent - there are only so many hours in the day, and I'm not a professional music critic.
You can spend all day telling me how talented Lewis Capaldi is, but I've heard a couple of his songs and sorry, they don't interest me. And let's be honest, I've never liked Prince either. I'm sure he was a genius but 80% of his music I simply don't like.
On that specific point... the music I like is generally made by bands who write their own songs and play their own instruments. You could be a great musician and have no knack for songwriting, or vice versa, I suppose. But most of the music I like comes from a group of people working within the framework of their own gifts, abilities and limitations. That's how they develop a style, an identity.
Again I'm talking from a dad-rock perspective, but to my mind many long-established bands have lost their identity by bringing in outside songwriters and overly-involved producers. Aerosmith have totally lost it. Scorpions have wandered on and off the tracks (their latest album is all band-written, and it's pretty good). Ozzy Osbourne.... he puts himself entirely in the hands of whatever producer he's working with, and does anyone honestly give a fuck about his last half-dozen studio albums?
I think you're right. Rock and pop music (in the sense of music created by the artists, not some crooner going in a studio with an orchestra and a "standard" song) was less than a decade old when I was born, and I guess I always thought of it as something which had come into existence and would now be there forever. But I'm not sure there'll ever be a resurgence of rock music played by new, young bands which will invade the consciousness of the general public.
Sorry, I'm going all over the place here. If this was an essay I'd have to go off and re-write it properly.
I love pop music, always have. I have no interest in whether it's mainstream or commercial - or not - as long as I like it.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson
I’ve largely given up caring these days
If rock music does become a niche, almost underground genre then the "big production" may become a thing of the past, and that's a bit of a shame.
Oddly enough, at the other end of the spectrum, for the few artists who do still sell a lot of records, and go into studios with a big budget, the role of the producer (or multiple producers, in many cases) is bigger than it's ever been.
It was just as boneheaded then as it is now.
Some of the music I like I would argue all day and night is, objectively, valid, vital art.
Some of the music I like, I’ll happily admit, is drivel…but I like it anyway.
The music I do not like can also be split into these two categories.
Again, there is only one distinction that matters:
music you like and music you don’t like.
http://collapseboard.com/institutionalised-sexism-at-the-guardian-the-chiffons-vs-george-harrison/
I remember reading this back then and it's been lodged in my mind since
If you don't know Everett True, he's the ex NME journo who wheeled Kurt Cobain onto the stage at Reading in 1992
Pop-ism or rock elitism can be interpreted as a kind of misogyny
A line from that link sums it up for me:
"Why the need to devalue one to praise the other?"
I guess an experienced producer has to be compared to an expensive one - how much does the Venn diagram cross over? Studio time in itself can be expensive, and an engineer can be expensive, but the payback of something that sounds excellent as compared to spending many hours putting together something at home in reaper could be an excellent investment.
"There’s also nothing wrong with being unmoved by Royal Blood and wishing they would hurry up and finish so that Lewis Capaldi can get going."
surely unintentional humour there?
"Right you mother*££@$£$ - this next one's called Somebody You Loved - let's kick out the jams..."
Cheap jokes aside, I completely agree with @monquixote . Trying to define 'real music' is for pretentious dickheads. There's only two kinds of music: music you like, and music you don't like.
There is too much choice.
I look at the iTunes Charts and the preorder lists and I am regularly finding there’s really only a couple of things I like the sound of coming out or a new album by an already established band coming… most of it I’m scratching my head going “who the fuck are Travis Collins, Janelle Monáe, Billie Eilish and alt.?!”
I listen to the previews and go “I don’t like this” and move on.
Not only has the internet enabled every man and his dog access to greater opinion-to-arsehole ratio but it (more broadly technology) has also enabled musicians/artists who would otherwise be “undiscovered” to be discovered. Whether that’s a good thing, or a bad thing, I’m sure everyone has an opinion there too.
Regardless, if I likes, I listens. If I don’t like, I switch it off.
I like Royal Blood. IDGAF about the singer having a dummy spit. The Gallagher brothers have probably had more dummy spits between them than they own pairs of undies. I don’t claim to be an Oasis fan. I like some of their songs, save for the last album they released which I thought was bloody brilliant. Talk about going out with a bang sure there’ll be some who disagree, but who cares?!
Some things change, some stay the same...
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson
Billie Eilish has done a Bond Theme and Headlined Glastonbury. If you haven't heard of her, that's on you
As one of the billions of people who've uploaded stuff to the streaming services, I'm very aware that I'm piggy-backing on what is effectively an Ed Sheeran delivery system with my audience of several. Which is fine.
In the old days, I'd find new music by going into a record shop and reading the sleeve and if the cover looked interesting and there were musicians whose names I recognised from records I liked I might get it. It seemed to give better results than The Algorithm, tbh.
As with all these things, highly subjective. Having given a couple of her albums a good listen and seen her in concert, personally I don't get the hype.