New desk day - The Colourbox/Piano Matt HQ - need to add speakers - ideas?

thecolourbox · May 2023

After much deliberation (!!) and thanks to my determined nature to get what I want, I've finally got my new desk and done most of the setup. I'd been looking at hacking together various IKEA parts to utilise some existing shelves I have and installing a monitor shelf, but a good deal popped up on Amazon for the other alternative I'd been looking at, a sit/stand desk with a keyboard shelf on offer for £140. @Wazmeister has a similar model from the same brand so a quick check with him for any issues or problems and I ordered it.

So, the brief was as follows:
- combine my work at home desk with some of my music kit to save space in my new house.
- dedicated space for recording and playing, and bits of practice/working out for my wedding piano side hustle (hence needing worktop space for my small keyboard).
- look nice
- be 100 X 60 cm dimensions as I'll be sharing the room with the Mrs as well and space is tight.

Cue lots of Google research, dimensions listing, drawing it out to scale in Inkscape, rejecting impractical ideas, browsing furniture hacking Facebook pages and Pinterest, and good old fashioned brainstorming on paper. Oh an annoying the Mrs by talking about it apparently.

Anyway, here it is. I'll do brief info here then more detail in the second comment including what I still need to sort out.

Here's the desk in its entirety:

So it's a powered sit/stage desk which can go from 72cm up to giant standing height, with four presets available - thought this would be good to be able to flip between typing height, piano height, and recording vocals height. Underneath I have a footrest which hides a little secret, and some drawers with stuff I need - recording interface, mixer, cables, mics etc. Typing keyboard tray allows me to keep that keyboard out the way (and I can touch type so don't even need it "out"). I bought a monitor arm which clamps onto the desk and can handle my monitor and laptop, be it work or personal laptop. That config works for my job where I read leases - PDFs on the small screen, system/logs on the big screen.

The desktop allows me to push the piano keyboard back when not in use and use the foreground area for drinks or notepad, then just slide it forwards when I want to play it. Laptop looks lower on to the piano than it is in practice, but there's plenty of clearance anyway.

You may have spotted the footrest in the second of the photos, and my coy little remark about it concealing a secret. It has a dual purpose - firstly I'm a bit short, so it allows me to sit up straight and in a better posture than previously. Secondly, living underneath it is a very useful gadget - my Line 6 HX FX! The stool has little adjustable feet so I've set it to the exact height to be able to pull the HX out from underneath it, and place it on the sloping top. Footrest X Pedalboard mash up!

And lastly for this bit, the boring section, the supply cupboard. At the moment the interface sits atop the unit but in one of the drawers is also my mixer which may need to go there instead if the needs dictate it, something to work with as I go

thecolourbox · May 2023

So the more detailed info is here

Connections:

Yamaha MX49 - will be used for impromptu piano practice while I'm bored at work, recording via the built in interface, or using as a midi controller for VST instruments also via the built in interface. I think I can also input my sheet music notes into Musescore using it as a midi input, which will save me time when arranging my piano versions of stuff for my wedding gigs.
Steinberg UR22c Interface. 2x xlr/jack combi inputs and midi through. For recording through audio inputs, and using the midi as described in the next bullet
Line 6 HX Effects - will be used no doubt as an effects unit, but also plugged in via Midi on the interface to use it as a midi footswitch controller for Helix Native/Amplitube/etc in Cubase. I'll add the expression pedal when I can reach that box in the garage.
Computer - work computer connected by usbC 99% of the time for my work from home duties, my laptop (which may be replaced in coming months) will go in via HDMI, and have the interface and Yamaha connected to it. I have a 4x usb hub thing from work which is easily swapped between two machines so as to use the keyboard and mouse easily.
Headphones only for sound at the mo as I've not worked out how to include speakers just yet (more on this below).
I also have a graphics drawing tablet which I'm looking forward to being able to use on a desk rather than on my lap!

Stuff Still to work out:

If I want speakers to listen to, that's going to take more designing and working out, also I need to know exactly where my desk will be in the room as it'll be shared with the Mrs when she works at home as well. That will inform whether I can install shelves on the wall etc
Tidy up the cabling. I know it looks messy, there's a little box thing at the back which seems fairly ineffective but once I know what the maximum amount of cables is and where they are running between, I'll be able to do it with those snake things and I have a cable box thing which should help.
find the expression pedal for the HX and a sustain pedal for the piano from my stuff in the garage.
Computer - I need a new one really as my Lenovo laptop is awful, seen a good Desktop recommendation in Computer Active but also looking at getting a refurb Surface Pro in addition to it, for Piano Matt admin, sheet music reading, and general sofa based internetting etc
attach clip to back of footrest to provide easy access to the psu for the HXFX.
cable up the interface (USB cable for computer, midi to HXFX, guitar wireless system nearby, mic cable etc.
I have a small pedaltrain style board, which currently holds my TC Helicon Voicelive, I also have a Horse American Sound pedal which I think would work nicely alongside the Voicelive as a quick grab and go board for recording quick demos of stuff that previously would be forgotten the next day. Quickly zip in the xlr and the cable from the American Sound into the interface and I can record what's going through my head rather than hoping it stays there until I can get to set everything up.
I usually like playing through and recording with my Digitech GSP1101 multi effects, which is 1u 19" rack size. However I can't really find a way to include this so I'm hoping that Helix and Amplitube can make up for that in time. Maybe when I sort out a speaker shelf it could go on there with a cable snake type setup, I'm not sure. At the moment it's in an Ikea bedside table unit which happens to be the exact right width for a 19" rack but it's a bit bulky and big. Used to have speakers on top of it and HXFX underneath the GSP1101 but now that's not really feasible. We shall see.
Guitar wall hanging - as and when we decide the layout of the room and whether the wardrobe is staying or going.

Other Notes:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0B1B1GNB3?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details that's the desk
The Amazon listing implied the desk included a headphone hook, which it definitely does not
Building the desk and arms wasn't too bad, probably on a par with the average IKEA build. However both items included a LOT of spare screws and fixings, but never the same amount spare if that makes sense. Always worrying to have random numbers of spare parts afterwards but I think it must just be the same package of parts they include for all the various sizes of the desk/arm.
I didn't account for the size of the underside of the monitor arm clamp being so big, it clashes with the cable managing box thing underneath but it's easily bendable so that was ok in the end.
The Mrs moaned about me talking about this and trying to get her help with innovative ideas to make it all work. However now it's in place, she was quoted yesterday as being "jealous of it all, the whole thing". Except i'm assuming not so much the piano as she isn't a musician

lukedlb · May 2023

i'd love to see some photo updates

thecolourbox · May 2023

Out of interest, are the photos above showing for you? I don't normally have Imgur issues but the last week or so, on Chrome on my work computer it shows no Imgur images, and if I click a link for one I just get a very blank page saying "capacity reached". However they're all showing perfectly well on my phone (also chrome)

stickyfiddle · May 2023

Nice - that looks like an ace little workstation (photos work for me!)

I'd actually suggest those cables don't look too bad, but I'm a big fan of sticky velcro. I have a big Belkin multi-socket dual-locked to the underside of my home desk, which works really nicely.

thecolourbox · May 2023

stickyfiddle said:

Nice - that looks like an ace little workstation (photos work for me!)

I'd actually suggest those cables don't look too bad, but I'm a big fan of sticky velcro. I have a big Belkin multi-socket dual-locked to the underside of my home desk, which works really nicely.

Thanks, the cables might not look too bad here but they are a little bit tucked away, plus I'll be adding more cables when I plug in the HXFX, interface, etc etc. I do, contrary to my wife's beliefs, quite enjoy a super slick tidy space where everything fits nicely and just works, so I'm hoping to reach that at some point when I get used to where things are and adjust as necessary. I don't want to attach things to other things too much just yet until I know where they are best to be sat/stuck/tucked away etc.

The multi socket i have here currently only has 4 sockets but is switched, so ideally I'll need to add a bigger one with individual switches or grab the the other one I have spare to have 8 in total. Desk, Monitor, keyboard, HXFX will take up that four, but if/when I need to plug in my personal laptop, a mixer, other pedal psu, or the voicelive, I'll obviously need more than the 4. It's fine for now though, using 2x 4 is probably safer for power capacity than one big one as well I guess.

Wazmeister · May 2023

Matt,

It looks absolutely superb, and very organised !

Excellent stuff

thecolourbox · May 2023

Wazmeister said:

Matt,

It looks absolutely superb, and very organised !

Excellent stuff

Thank you, and thanks you again for the encouragement and sharing your experience of yours which helped. I'm glad I did go for this one with the tray rather than the Ikea one of the same dimensions, because although the space in front of the piano keyboard is enough for the typing keyboard and mouse, it its quite convenient to have that space free and not to have to shove the typing keyboard and mouse out the way somewhere.

Also the faux wood finish saved me having to buy vinyl wraps to cover the surfaces in to make them look nicer. All I've needed to do is to cut a cork desk mat thing down to size with my stanley knife to put on the keyboard tray as the surface texture was grating on me a bit while using my mouse. I'd ripped the mats a bit by accident in the move process so actually they were otherwise destined for the bin or the cupboard, hence it's nice to repurpose

Keefy · May 2023

Congratulations, makes a massive difference having a practice setup that you can just fire up and play.

Whistler · May 2023

I love the nicely done dovetail joints.

thecolourbox · May 2023

Whistler said:

I love the nicely done dovetail joints.

Yes the footstool looks really nicely made but doesn't really feel it, if that makes sense. Feels very light and flimsy so I'm not too optimistic it will last that long. We shall see

thecolourbox · June 2023

So now I've had some time to play with the new desk, I mean time to work diligently whilst sat at it of course

I'm now needing to look to the next phase of development - how to add speakers. I've realised adding a shelf to the wall obviously isn't going to work if I was to use the standing element of my desk.

So thinking I'm going to need another two clamped arms with stands on top for speakers. I don't think there is a way to use a soundbar type thing which was going to be my other potential as I have one spare with a woofer (my studio monitors lack bass).

Any experience or ideas welcomed!

flying_pie · June 2023

You've clearly given that a lot of thought. Look forward to hearing your next creations including Jump Around

I'd love to give some recommendations but my own setup is so ghetto I'd probably get barred from this party of the forum if I shared it. If I was adding speakers then I'd look at setting them up so they are best placed for mixing and not just in a convenient spot.

thecolourbox · July 2023

So i've had this over a month now and it's been nice to have a better desk, and to be able to record easier. that said I was banished to the garage to record the vocals for the cover challenge, but that was only really because I'd not found time to do them in the day while SWMBO was at work.

That said, i need to add speakers as being cabled up whilst playing guitar or piano through headphones sat in a corner feels a little bit claustro. It's fine for mixing and stuff but not with my flailing arms playing guitar or piano.

Any of you fine people got any ideas?

I can't really do a wall shelf because a) I might move where I'm sat and b) I wouldn't be able to use the standing desk function.

I wonder is there a shelf that could attach via similar clamps to the monitor/laptop stand? Or do I need to buy two speakerstands on clamp poles? I'm a bit concerned it might make the unit top heavy as well, so I'm a bit annoyed that I may have (literally) backed myself into a corner with the designing

Sporky · July 2023

Could you fit some Cornered Audio speakers up where the wall meets the ceiling? I have C5s in my office and they're very decent. I did add a subwoofer, but only because I could, they're not thin sounding.

thecolourbox · July 2023

I'm not sure, i've rotated 90 degrees since the photos as the light through the windows was very fatiguing reflecting off the screen. I'm quite short so I feel like ceiling level speakers would need to be at a very severe angle to reach me nicely in stereo where I'm sat. I'll have a think

I've ruled out speakers on stands either side of the desk as my screen is already overhanging a fair bit and it would increase my allocated space too much I think

Sporky · July 2023

They go in the edge, and have 90° dispersion. Worth considering.

https://www.consumer.cornered.dk/shop/c-series

thecolourbox · July 2023

Sporky said:

They go in the edge, and have 90° dispersion. Worth considering.

https://www.consumer.cornered.dk/shop/c-series

Thanks, I will look more in case I've missed some detail but I like playing with stereo sounds and there isn't another corner in the right place for a second one I don't think! Will see what could work though, thanks for the recommendation

Sporky · July 2023

They don't have to be in corners, just at edges.

thecolourbox · July 2023

Thanks Sporky, I did take a look over the weekend but I'm afraid I'm not operating in that kind of budget level. As you'll see from my other stuff and my recordings in general shared here, I'm a low rent low wattage level and can't justify those kinds of things for the space I'm operating in.

I think practically speaking I can't really do what I want within my constraints of money and the physical space I'm in, so I think headphones will have to do

octatonic · July 2023

stickyfiddle said:

Nice - that looks like an ace little workstation (photos work for me!)

I'd actually suggest those cables don't look too bad, but I'm a big fan of sticky velcro. I have a big Belkin multi-socket dual-locked to the underside of my home desk, which works really nicely.

+1
I'm a neat freak when it comes to this but the complexity of the studio means I have to be or it would be chaos
Dual lock works great in some situations but velcro works better in others.
I have a lot of velcro cable ties in place, but sometimes use release-able plastic cable ties.

One thing that made my studio a lot neater was making up stereo multicore cables for devices.

This company will make them up for you, or you can buy the multicore and do it yourself.
https://custom-lynx.co.uk/product/custom-lynx-neutrik-2-way-6-35mm-1-4-ts-jack-loom-unbalanced-mono/

It is much neater/cleaner than having loads of cables dangling.

One thing though, is to caution against making things *too* precise.
Configurations change all the time, so I make sure I give myself enough slack with cable runs (esp audio) so I can slightly alter things if need be down the line without having to completely dismantle everything.

Here is one of the keyboard racks- everything is wired up- power, USB/MIDI and audio.

Power is on the bottom shelf rear support, stuck on with velcro and secured with two cable ties.
USB is via a Startech USB to ethernet extender as there is a 12m run back to the machine room where the Mac Studio is.
Power and USB/Midi are cable tied to the rack.
Audio isn't and to minimise noise it crosses power at 90 degrees only.

Audio is into the small stage box on the floor which is one of two visible multicores in the entire studio.
(The other connects the desk to the machine room).
It disappears into a a brush panel in the removable skirting and connects to the other side of the studio by running up the wall, over the ceiling and down the other side.

I could have wall mounted it, of course, but I don't know if I want to move things about later on.

I should do a studio tour video at some point.

thecolourbox · July 2023

I do enjoy seeing the various pictures and posts about your space and setup, a model example of what can be done with the knowhow and also to match the quality of output. I'm obviously at the exact opposite end of the scale in pretty much every way but there's still tips and info to be gleaned from it to make things better, even for my little hub. Such as the cabling, and the reminders to forward plan and not run yourself into so much of a corner as I have with my (otherwise decent) little table.

I think my cabling should be pretty good once set up as I don't imagine it being too changeable really. An interface and my keyboard, by USB to the computer, swap headphones between each of them depending on which I'm using. I've got some small velcro strips to take care of the power cabling, and some cable ties if required. Maybe just get one of those snake things people use for the cables behind their TVs for that element. I tend to use my cheap wireless system for guitar input as I'll get all wrapped in cables otherwise.

Not being able to add any speakers will obviously help in that regard as well

because for that to work I'd need to set up a mixer or some kind of selectable patch bay as well, then cabling from the interface and keyboard (and anything else) would need to be increased to run through that then out to speakers.

I do have a Behringer Patch bay rack unit thing but i've always assumed it to be crap and just increased my cabling unnecessarily, plus the controls are on the top so positioning it to be accessible for those is a bit annoying. I have a couple of Behringer Xenyx mixers also, they are ok but a bit hissy so not sure I'd want to use those. They just have no sale value to enable me to replace them, and also the others available in the same budget price range seem to be the same things with different badges on so can't imagine it would be worth the investment.

I do want to buy a desktop computer as my laptop is woeful, and that could spell the end for the little metal drawers in their current position, they're a bit flimsy anyway but once I've moved the stuff currently to the right of my desk, they could go there to be fair.

Sporky · July 2023

thecolourbox said:

Thanks Sporky, I did take a look over the weekend but I'm afraid I'm not operating in that kind of budget level.

Ah, sorry.

octatonic · July 2023

thecolourbox said:

I do enjoy seeing the various pictures and posts about your space and setup, a model example of what can be done with the knowhow and also to match the quality of output. I'm obviously at the exact opposite end of the scale in pretty much every way but there's still tips and info to be gleaned from it to make things better, even for my little hub. Such as the cabling, and the reminders to forward plan and not run yourself into so much of a corner as I have with my (otherwise decent) little table.

I think my cabling should be pretty good once set up as I don't imagine it being too changeable really. An interface and my keyboard, by USB to the computer, swap headphones between each of them depending on which I'm using. I've got some small velcro strips to take care of the power cabling, and some cable ties if required. Maybe just get one of those snake things people use for the cables behind their TVs for that element. I tend to use my cheap wireless system for guitar input as I'll get all wrapped in cables otherwise.

Not being able to add any speakers will obviously help in that regard as well because for that to work I'd need to set up a mixer or some kind of selectable patch bay as well, then cabling from the interface and keyboard (and anything else) would need to be increased to run through that then out to speakers.

I do have a Behringer Patch bay rack unit thing but i've always assumed it to be crap and just increased my cabling unnecessarily, plus the controls are on the top so positioning it to be accessible for those is a bit annoying. I have a couple of Behringer Xenyx mixers also, they are ok but a bit hissy so not sure I'd want to use those. They just have no sale value to enable me to replace them, and also the others available in the same budget price range seem to be the same things with different badges on so can't imagine it would be worth the investment.

I do want to buy a desktop computer as my laptop is woeful, and that could spell the end for the little metal drawers in their current position, they're a bit flimsy anyway but once I've moved the stuff currently to the right of my desk, they could go there to be fair.

Cheers.

Those Behringer patchbays are not usually as bad as what Behringer usually turn out, although for a little more you could have the Neutrik ones. I would almost always prefer using a patchbay to not, but it depends on how many sources and what you are trying to do with them.

You can easily test by recording two identical signals, one through the patchbay, one not, then flip the phase on one of them and see if it cancels.

Patchbays save a lot of time- there are five things that matter here.

1. Layout: outputs on top, inputs on the bottom.

2. Labelling, I do this using a colour laser printer, a laminator and then cut it with a small guillotine.

3. Normalling scheme. Most of the gear is half-normalled to the audio interfaces/converters so I can bring everything up in Pro Tools or Logic. This means you only break the connection by patching into the bottom row of each bay. This means I can send any source to two destinations (for instance recording a source to two tracks, one with EQ and compress, one without).

4. Strain relief. You want to have some slack in the cables to be able to take the patchbay out to make changes but you need to secure the cables in some way. My Audio Accessories bays have built in strain relief, some patchbays have lacing bars, otherwise cable tie it to the inside of the rack, but allow enough movement to take the bay out. Use releasable cable ties. Trust me.

5. I never, ever put microphone preamp inputs on bantam bays. That is what the combi XLR/1/4" rack at the bottom is for. If you forget to disable phantom power when inserting or removing a cable with some microphones (particularly ribbons) there is a chance you can fuck up the mic. The only time I would consider doing this is if I had a cloud lifter on the front end of every mic preamp input but who is realistically going to do that?

I also don't like putting powered monitor inputs on a patchbay- use a monitor controller or connect the monitors to your audio interface.

thecolourbox · July 2023

Blimey that looks like the tardis! Making the space for my patch bay would be worth the while for the inputs and outputs I have, especially considering I can't have speakers (for now at least)

Inputs:
Guitar into interface - usually via wireless. If I rig my HX FX up to use for sounds at any point rather than just midi, then just 1/4" jack into the interface, wireless from guitar to effects
Mic into interface (sometimes two at once). Can't be done on my patch bay as it's only 1/4"
Keyboard goes in via USB so no need for audio cable

Outputs are just headphones which again doesn't work with the Patchbay. If I were to use speakers I think just a better quality small mixer than the crap ones I currently have would be better,I've used the bigger one I have in that role before, i just have to keep all the levels really low because of the hissing.

Useful info though re patch bays in general and i've added it to my "useful info for future" notepad just in case it's ever needed.

I think yours is the Ferrari, whereas mine is the Fiat

octatonic · July 2023

thecolourbox said:

Blimey that looks like the tardis! Making the space for my patch bay would be worth the while for the inputs and outputs I have, especially considering I can't have speakers (for now at least)

Inputs:
Guitar into interface - usually via wireless. If I rig my HX FX up to use for sounds at any point rather than just midi, then just 1/4" jack into the interface, wireless from guitar to effects
Mic into interface (sometimes two at once). Can't be done on my patch bay as it's only 1/4"
Keyboard goes in via USB so no need for audio cable

Outputs are just headphones which again doesn't work with the Patchbay. If I were to use speakers I think just a better quality small mixer than the crap ones I currently have would be better,I've used the bigger one I have in that role before, i just have to keep all the levels really low because of the hissing.

Useful info though re patch bays in general and i've added it to my "useful info for future" notepad just in case it's ever needed.

I think yours is the Ferrari, whereas mine is the Fiat

I don't quite know how it happened to be honest.
When I moved from Oz in 2001 I had two guitars, one amp and a laptop.

Yes, from what you are describing a small mixer like a Mackie 1402VLZ (or smaller) would be ideal.

thecolourbox · July 2023

octatonic said:

I don't quite know how it happened to be honest.
When I moved from Oz in 2001 I had two guitars, one amp and a laptop.

I think that's what happens when you move from a nice place to a less nice place, you need distractions!

thecolourbox · August 2023

Are there people who you can pay to come out and sort this kind of thing out for people? I had a bit of a go recording some piano yesterday for something I'm working on and it was a nightmare with cables everywhere, drivers not working on the laptop as usual, and without speakers so headphones were getting in the way.

I wondered if there were people who come out and spec something up even if they don't fit it, so I can be on hand to say what does or does not suit what I want, and find some clever solutions?

Still struggling with what to do about the speakers to be honest. but there's plenty of other bits and bobs that aren't quite working for me in the "grab and go2 sense of things, which is what I wanted.

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New desk day - The Colourbox/Piano Matt HQ - need to add speakers - ideas?

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