Developing RH picking technique

joeW · May 2023

I started playing Classical and have always found picks a bit of a necessary evil rather than a natural assistance. I was wondering if anyone had had success in studying technique and if so, are there any decent resources out there. I switch between George Benson style and normal grips and have yet to settle on one properly.

Any recommendations?

bobacco · May 2023

Troy Grady’s Cracking the Code is a great investment and digs super deep into every minutiae of the physiology and mechanics of picking.

If you’re more looking for a book, Mark Burgess’ The Serious Guitarist - Right Hand Picking is worth a punt.

I’d definitely recommend persisting with the George Benson grip - here’s a decent article (two parts):

https://fretboardanatomy.com/picking/

Edit: Stupidly forgot to mention Martin Miller’s JTC box set. Specifically the picking one! But they’re all worth the price of entry; fantastic guitarist and pedagogue.

Roland · May 2023

bobacco said:

here’s a decent article (two parts):

https://fretboardanatomy.com/picking/

That’s a decent article. It covers most aspects without the “You are doing it wrong” stance that so many articles have.

Like the OP I played using my thumb and fingers. That’s because I wanted the ability to play bass, melody, and harmony at the same time. It was only when I joined a covers band that I had to start using a plectrum to get the sound, and the rhythmic content, which many pop songs need. Basically “All The Small Things” wore through my index finger nail in the course of a rehearsal. Since then I’ve experimented with different plectrums, and different ways of holding them. George Benson’s method works well for the type of music Benson plays, but doesn’t work so well when you need repeated downstrokes and palm muting.

So my advice is read the article, experiment with different approaches, and find what works best for your hands, the music you want to play, and the way you want to play it.

joeW · May 2023

bobacco said:

https://fretboardanatomy.com/picking/

Great read. I had some lessons (on truefire) with Sheryl Bailey and her technique is excellent.

As is Henry Johnson
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AfVYSruxFG0

I see more and more players using it. Perhaps I should focus my efforts on this format again.

digitalkettle · May 2023

bobacco said:

Troy Grady’s Cracking the Code is a great investment and digs super deep into every minutiae of the physiology and mechanics of picking...

Definitely worth looking into 'Cracking the Code'...I've only followed what was freely available* over the years and I feel that I've got a lot from it.

I scan-read the 'fretboardanatomy' article and I didn't see any treatment of string-crossing. A 'George Benson grip' looks like it's pretty committed to an 'upward escape' motion in CtC terms...if you only escape the string plane in one direction, you have to arrange what you play to support this: do you start on an up or down stroke, do you play an even number of notes on each string, do you drop in a hammer/pull-off to get you out of bother, etc.

* I did crowdfund the development of 'The Magnet' though

joeW · May 2023

@digitalkettle you are right. As I understand it, GB uses rest strokes (downward pick slanting) as he goes to the higher strings and then 2 notes per string going lower in pitch. A little like gypsy players but with a different grip. It always feels like you can’t truly improvise when there are mechanical rules to work with, and my brain is already overloaded with how highlighting the harmony of the chord changes. Clearly I have a lot of work ahead…

bobacco · May 2023

joeW said:

bobacco said:

https://fretboardanatomy.com/picking/

Great read. I had some lessons (on truefire) with Sheryl Bailey and her technique is excellent.
As is Henry Johnson
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AfVYSruxFG0

I see more and more players using it. Perhaps I should focus my efforts on this format again.

Sheryl Bailey is fantastic! Have definitely been tempted to try some of the TrueFire lessons with the instructors.

And wow, not really seen much of Henry Johnson but that’s today’s binge sorted, thanks!

I pursued it (the GB technique) years and years ago, but bailed as it was like relearning the entire instrument. However in the last year or so, I’ve sort of morphed into it because of mild discomfort with the ‘traditional’ grips, so I’m getting the hang of it. I feel I have a much better control over the dynamics and the only thing that I was worried about was the adaptability to exactly the sort of rhythm playing Henry was doing above!

Danny1969 · May 2023

I actually teach hybrid picking form the start now with students because it's the most effective way to play IMHO. You still get the aggression and picking speed of the pick but also every advantage of being able to use your fingers to cover notes instantly without moving your pick.
There's quite a few things you can do with hybrid, even in a shredding context which would be very hard to do with just a pick.

bobacco · May 2023

digitalkettle said:

bobacco said:

Troy Grady’s Cracking the Code is a great investment and digs super deep into every minutiae of the physiology and mechanics of picking...

Definitely worth looking into 'Cracking the Code'...I've only followed what was freely available* over the years and I feel that I've got a lot from it.

I scan-read the 'fretboardanatomy' article and I didn't see any treatment of string-crossing. A 'George Benson grip' looks like it's pretty committed to an 'upward escape' motion in CtC terms...if you only escape the string plane in one direction, you have to arrange what you play to support this: do you start on an up or down stroke, do you play an even number of notes on each string, do you drop in a hammer/pull-off to get you out of bother, etc.

* I did crowdfund the development of 'The Magnet' though

Good spot! It’s (the article) much more focused on the grip opposed to the mechanics. Martin Miller is your guy for crosspicking:

https://youtu.be/1Qb5IR_Vo3o

He’s not a ‘Benson picker’, mind. With that said, I’ve consumed voraciously just about everything he’s recorded for JTC, and one of these days I might try and play some of it. Heh.

digitalkettle · May 2023

joeW said:

...It always feels like you can’t truly improvise when there are mechanical rules to work with, and my brain is already overloaded with how highlighting the harmony of the chord changes. Clearly I have a lot of work ahead…

@joeW I agree...and, imho, the ultimate goal from the CtC side of things is to internalise a mechanism to escape in either direction...then you just feel what's required (you just need a spare 10,000 hours

).

roberty · May 2023

I consciously changed my picking style in my 30s which means I am quite aware of what I'm doing, I think moreso than if I'd learnt properly in the first place

The main thing IMO is getting the motion right. None of the other stuff matters if you are making bad movements

This helped me towards my first breakthrough:

I learnt Bark at the Moon by Ozzy Osbourne around this time which is a great exercise as it is mostly pedalling 16th notes on the open A string. The palm muting means you are forced to have a good motion as your wrist is low

The other thing that helped was Cracking the Code, but I didn't go into any great detail with it. Just knowing the escape paths is enough IMO

Another thing I would suggest is to feel the pick pass over the string and allow the pick to do the work. With the right angle the tip of the pick should glide over the string nicely and make it pop

My playing got worse before it got better as I incorporated these new techniques into my normal playing, it was quite a gruelling experience! But I'm glad I did it

Good luck

roberty · May 2023

I would also add that there is a lot of pick technique that is not strict, efficient picking. Most people have a more relaxed style until they need to summon up some speed. And there are so many ways to strum and to play multiple strings. So while it is good to work on picking technique I think it is more important have fun and focus on making a good sound

bobacco · May 2023

roberty said:

I would also add that there is a lot of pick technique that is not strict, efficient picking. Most people have a more relaxed style until they need to summon up some speed. And there are so many ways to strum and to play multiple strings. So while it is good to work on picking technique I think it is more important have fun and focus on making a good sound

Great shout. I think of all the benefits CtC offers, the primary thing I got out of it was seeing dozens of phenomenal players each using their own grips / motions. The physiology of the hand, differing setups of instruments etc means that there are infinite ways of doing things - so my efforts to find this ‘silver bullet’ approach to picking was doomed from the off. In hindsight, it’s remarkably obvious! But having picking motions, escapes etc codified into a system, and then being shown how the masters approach it - and specifically, that they do so in many different ways - was profoundly illuminating.

digitalkettle · May 2023

roberty said:

...
The other thing that helped was Cracking the Code, but I didn't go into any great detail with it. Just knowing the escape paths is enough IMO
...

I'd agree with this: just the realisation helps..."You won't believe how fast I got with this one simple trick!"

roberty said:

I would also add that there is a lot of pick technique that is not strict, efficient picking. Most people have a more relaxed style until they need to summon up some speed. And there are so many ways to strum and to play multiple strings. So while it is good to work on picking technique I think it is more important have fun and focus on making a good sound

And again: yep...when I'm under pressure legato creeps in...then some economy picking...then hybrid picking. I guess this is the true *me* at this point in time and, obviously, that changes very gradually with focused practice.

That point about 'relaxed practice' is a core CtC thing (as you'll know @roberty ): the speed pushes you out of your comfort zone and makes you find a flatter, more efficient picking-hand action. Either side of that line, you could still be alternate picking...but the relaxed version is bouncing/arcing all over the place...I like that feeling as you can think more about articulation. The thing I'm always rethinking/overthinking are anchor points!

roberty · May 2023

bobacco said:

roberty said:

I would also add that there is a lot of pick technique that is not strict, efficient picking. Most people have a more relaxed style until they need to summon up some speed. And there are so many ways to strum and to play multiple strings. So while it is good to work on picking technique I think it is more important have fun and focus on making a good sound

Great shout. I think of all the benefits CtC offers, the primary thing I got out of it was seeing dozens of phenomenal players each using their own grips / motions. The physiology of the hand, differing setups of instruments etc means that there are infinite ways of doing things - so my efforts to find this ‘silver bullet’ approach to picking was doomed from the off. In hindsight, it’s remarkably obvious! But having picking motions, escapes etc codified into a system, and then being shown how the masters approach it - and specifically, that they do so in many different ways - was profoundly illuminating.

I do think watching the motions of players that you admire is important*

I went through a few tutors as an adult, and the one I settled on was perhaps not the best teacher but I loved his playing and I really wanted to play like him. Every week I'd watch him play certain things that seemed impossible to me and think "how tf did he do that?", and although he wasn't able to properly explain I was determined to figure it out

I think you need that sort of target to focus your practice and make it matter, I certainly do anyway if others do not

*edit: not while they are on the toilet

roberty · May 2023

digitalkettle said:
That point about 'relaxed practice' is a core CtC thing (as you'll know @roberty ): the speed pushes you out of your comfort zone and makes you find a flatter, more efficient picking-hand action. Either side of that line, you could still be alternate picking...but the relaxed version is bouncing/arcing all over the place...I like that feeling as you can think more about articulation. The thing I'm always rethinking/overthinking are anchor points!

Yes exactly, to play fast you have to take an economical technique and slow it down, rather than try to play a bouncy, inefficient style faster and faster. You have a much wider range of expression with the bouncy style though

If you watch this from 19m:20s or so he has the best way of describing the difference between learning, practicing and playing:

You need to apply a different mindset to each activity, because applying the wrong mindset to the wrong activity will destroy your confidence

joeW · May 2023

Do anyone know if Troy Grady has analysed a player with the GB grip? I watched some of the code vids that were free on YouTube and all were (excellent) vids about hopping and escape path. Not tried the paid access so wondered if anyone had seen a GB type analysis.

joeW · May 2023

And thanks for the feedback so far - it’s really helpful and a welcome distraction from the FS threads!

bobacco · May 2023

joeW said:

Do anyone know if Troy Grady has analysed a player with the GB grip? I watched some of the code vids that were free on YouTube and all were (excellent) vids about hopping and escape path. Not tried the paid access so wondered if anyone had seen a GB type analysis.

I’ve got the membership over there - let me double check later on. He’s done a fair bit of work with Steve Morse, whose grip isn’t exactly GB but is certainly unorthodox - but very effective for crosspicking!

There’s a heap of courses and interviews etc so I’ll have a look and see.

stratman3142 · May 2023

joeW said:

Do anyone know if Troy Grady has analysed a player with the GB grip? I watched some of the code vids that were free on YouTube and all were (excellent) vids about hopping and escape path. Not tried the paid access so wondered if anyone had seen a GB type analysis.

I think Jorge Strunz has a broadly similar grip to GB (see clip below). But I don't recall seeing an in depth anlaysis of that type of grip.

bobacco · May 2023

Another chap that’s well worth looking into is Cecil Alexander - great player using the GB grip.

https://www.soundslice.com/slices/cjZDc/?from=channel

joeW · May 2023

bobacco said:

I pursued it (the GB technique) years and years ago, but bailed as it was like relearning the entire instrument. However in the last year or so, I’ve sort of morphed into it because of mild discomfort with the ‘traditional’ grips, so I’m getting the hang of it. I feel I have a much better control over the dynamics and the only thing that I was worried about was the adaptability to exactly the sort of rhythm playing Henry was doing above!

I was of the same opinion, but I just noticed that Cory Wong also holds his pick in a GB grip - and there is nothing lacking about his rhythm chops ...

Am going to get more info and incorporate some practise routines and give a a few weeks to see if anything starts to click.

Vibetronic · May 2023

All the comments here are spot on, but I’d also recommend going to a teacher who’s really good at it. I’m a guitar teacher myself, but alternate picking has always been my weak point, and having lessons myself has really (really) helped. All depends how you learn best though - I definitely need someone to ‘show and tell’ - some of the resources already mentioned were really useful, but I prefer the interaction and having someone tell me what I’m doing wrong rather than taking ages figuring it out myself. That being said, I’m probably only about 5 years into erasing 30 years’ worth of bad habits

prs8124 · June 2023

I’d never come across that article before, really an eye opener for me, going to give it a try.

jackio · July 2023

I read the article and tried it. Wow. Game changer. Obviously there'll be an period of adapting but it's a game changer. I'm chuffed, thanks for posting this

Littlejonny · August 2023

I’ve been trying the GB grip today and I really like it. It’s got a nice smoothness and I like the ‘pop’ of the notes when using the pointy end of the pick. I’m not entirely sure about bending my wrist in that way for long periods, so I don’t think I have the posture right yet.

I’ve been having a go at Bluegrass tunes this week, and I’ve tried combining these two elements but I don’t think they mesh very well. For bluegrass you need this consistent alternate quaver motion, and the GB grip seems suited to more of an economy picking approach? Do enlighten me if I have that wrong.

As for ‘cracking the code’ I’ve always scoffed at it a bit, because it seems to be all about shredding, which is about 1% of Guitar playing in my experience. However, his consistent approach has since proved to me that he’s doing fantastic work of researching what is a surprisingly complex and misunderstood aspect of guitar playing.

roberty · August 2023

Does Marty Friedman use the GB grip?

joeW · August 2023

roberty said:

Does Marty Friedman use the GB grip?

The wrist angle is the same but he doesn't flip grip over like GB, who has his thumb on the bridge side not headstock side if that makes sense.

I have been working on the GB grip now for a few months and its going really well.
Upside - articulation is better, the upstrokes are of a more similar tone and strength. Maybe my old technique was bad but the upstrokes were alway weaker and thinner sounding. Alternative picking is cleaner as the pick doesn't go as far down between the strings. Speed is already where I was (not very fast mind)
Downside - chords still feel a little clumsy (haven't spent anytime on this really). Can't hybrid pick (didn't really much anyway). Muting requires a small change in position of wrist

For me, as a predominately clean player, its def worth the time.

musteatbrain · September 2023

Just popped the kettle on and watch this.

https://youtu.be/NWuGkXhj0T8?si=-K0D8ZJzwv63Vt00

Summarises so much of Troy’s work and helped me a little more straight away. Might be the best video he’s done

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Developing RH picking technique

Comments