Acoustics. The changing fashion for Monels. What's happening now?

DavidR · May 2023

Have just done a string change and was amazed to find that I hadn't renewed the Monels on my little mahogany guitar since last August. So 8 months ago.

This really does emphasise one major advantage of Monel which is that it lasts. Monels were used a lot until 80/20 strings became the standard for acoustics in the 1930's. This lasted until Phosphor Bronze strings were marketed in the mid 1970's courtesy of Daddario. Since then those have been the standard because of their nice bright sparkly and slightly less bassy resonance. But they only last a few weeks, less if you're playing them a lot. If you want to have that sparkle permanently you have to change strings quite often before the string fairy comes along and takes away the magic. When the sparkle does go, PB is quite ordinary imho.

Set me wondering what's happening with Monels now. It's difficult to cut through the advertising hype and get any sense of how these strings are selling in comparison with Phosphor Bronze in the current market. The only real marker is that several brands are marketing them. A quick Google reveals Martin, Gibson, Daddario, Pyramid, Curt Mangan as makers and there may be others. How much of this is "me too'ism" and how much is a definite market change in fashion is difficult to tell.

In straightened times, Monels might be a convenient change for many. Strings are really our only recurrent cost. Monels have a more steely and complex tone. Maybe we'll go back to liking that again if only on spending grounds.

Does anyone have sales figures for strings to hand I wonder?

ICBM · May 2023

DavidR said:

Monels have a more steely and complex tone.

I thought the opposite with the ones I tried - Martins - slightly dull, rather one-tone and lacking the complex harmonics of PB or even 80/20. The best thing I can say about them is that they sounded less bad on a mahogany-top 00 than a dreadnought.

I have no idea how popular they are, but to me it seems more like a fad than a real change in buying habit for most players.

thermionic · May 2023

I’ve been putting Monels on a particular guitar that suits them. I broke a wound string putting a new set on so just bought a pack of Daddario XTs when I was passing PMT. They had a massive wall of strings behind the counter but no Monels. The XTs don’t sound as good on it imho.

Mellish · May 2023

I tried Monels but didn't like 'em.

I didn't like the tone so went back to D'Addario EJ16.

Winny_Pooh · May 2023

They don't sell well. Their lack of abundance in guitar stores or across string manufacturers is indicative.

bertie · May 2023

never used them, never willl

'lixy nano's work for me every time

Cryptid · May 2023

They last me many months too, compared to a week or so from PBs. On my larger guitars they sound a little dull and uninspiring coming from PBs, but kept them on my jumbo for their longevity when gigging regularly.

I do prefer PBs on my maple strummers but can't be doing with changing strings weekly. I've compromised and settled on D'addario XS (coated).

Monels really suit my little Vintage V300MH for country blues style fingerpicking. I've been using Newtone round core.

mgaw · May 2023

I think they work really well on some guitars. I use Da Dario NB on my JL Collings which work a treat, though I have some GRS brass round wound on it currently which also sound ace

more · May 2023

DavidR said:

Have just done a string change and was amazed to find that I hadn't renewed the Monels on my little mahogany guitar since last August. So 8 months ago.

This really does emphasise one major advantage of Monel which is that it lasts. Monels were used a lot until 80/20 strings became the standard for acoustics in the 1930's. This lasted until Phosphor Bronze strings were marketed in the mid 1970's courtesy of Daddario. Since then those have been the standard because of their nice bright sparkly and slightly less bassy resonance. But they only last a few weeks, less if you're playing them a lot. If you want to have that sparkle permanently you have to change strings quite often before the string fairy comes along and takes away the magic. When the sparkle does go, PB is quite ordinary imho.

Set me wondering what's happening with Monels now. It's difficult to cut through the advertising hype and get any sense of how these strings are selling in comparison with Phosphor Bronze in the current market. The only real marker is that several brands are marketing them. A quick Google reveals Martin, Gibson, Daddario, Pyramid, Curt Mangan as makers and there may be others. How much of this is "me too'ism" and how much is a definite market change in fashion is difficult to tell.

In straightened times, Monels might be a convenient change for many. Strings are really our only recurrent cost. Monels have a more steely and complex tone. Maybe we'll go back to liking that again if only on spending grounds.

Does anyone have sales figures for strings to hand I wonder?

There is no published data regarding guitar string sales . Manufacturers know how many sets they sell , and they keep that information to themselves . The guitar sting business is very competitive. Most manufacturers make clams about some tonal magic that can only be achieved by using their strings . Monels originally used the same alloy as used in the first stainless steel kitchen sinks . Replaced by the cheaper nickel-coated and better sounding 80/20 brass . It is personal choice, and if guitarists like them, I'm sure someone will make them.

jellyroll · May 2023

Well, if a certain US forum is to be believed everybody who is anybody plays a vintage Martin stung with Monels, picked with a Blue Chip pick.

I've tried Monels numerous times. Adjectives that come to mind are "harsh, cold, metallic, tinny."

(I don't like Blue Chip picks either).

richardhomer · May 2023

Tried a set a while back and couldn’t get the off quick enough…

rlw · May 2023

Brilliant on a Les Paul though...

McSwaggerty · May 2023

After a lot of trial and error, I found that D,Addario Nickel Bronze easily won out the park for me when fingerpicking on my Waterloo ....but sounded terrible on an Eastman E10P on which I use Phosphor Bronze.
Horses for Courses and all that...........

jellyroll · May 2023

I believe those that do like Models generally sing their praises on Mahogany back/side instruments

Gandalph · May 2023

I like them a lot on the right guitar but on some they sound horrible. Sound great on a little all mahogany 0 size. Sounded good on a Spruce/mahogany Waterloo but sounded awful on an all Mahogany Waterloo. Also wasn't impressed when I put them on an old Kalamazoo.

Tannin · May 2023

1: Yep, nickel strings last and last and last. There are those who claim that this is because they sound awful first up and are just as awful six months later, but I don't agree.

2: Phosphor bronze strings last a good deal longer than brass ones, all else being equal.

3: If you are a real 1960s diehard , you'll happily use six-month-old brass strings and like the sound, which is very mellow and even and very very dull. Note that dead brass strings still sound tuneful even though they have no zing at all, where dead phosphor bronze strings are simply awful. Back in the day, everyone played brass and everyone kept them on for month after month, and we all - from recording engineers to listeners - thought they sounded fine.

4: The best way to make friends with the String Fairy is to leave your guitar out overnight with a fresh packet of Balls and a bottle of gin.

5: "Monel" is just a tradename for one of the many nickel alloys used to make guitar strings. Some nickel alloy strings are branded "Monel", others use different terms. And no, they are not all the same. John Pierce say they use pure nickel, GHS use nickel and iron 50/50. SIT and Martin use Monel, which is a trade name for nickel-copper plus various minor extras. D'Addario use "nickel-bronze" which is meaningless given that they (a) don't specify the proportions and (b) have the havit of labelling things as "bronze" which are demonstrably no such thing. But it's safe to say that D'Addario "nickel bronze" strings have nickel and copper in them, plus (probably) a few other things.

6: I see no reason to imagine that nickel-alloy strings are any more popular now than they were 5 years ago, or any less. They are and always will be a niche product. A handful of string makers manufacture them, for the most part these are major makers with large market shares (Martin, GHS, D'Addario, Pyramid) and/or very large ranges of many different strings (SIT, GHS, Pyramid). I hadn't noticed that Curt Mangan had started making them too. Curt Mangan seems to be having a big expansion push with lots of new strings lately (or possibly they are just getting the major retailers to list already-existing products for the first time.)

7: I like the D'Addario ones best, but there are a couple I have still not tried yet. There are major differences between the different brands.

8: Having played a couple of Martin mahogany-top guitars recently (well, fake mahogany - one was Sapele and the other one was Sipo) I cannot imagine that nickel strings could possibly make them sound any worse.

9: They have a different sound. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Depends on the guitar, and the player, and the style of music.

10: Martin Retros, the best-known brand of nickel alloy acoustic strings, take a very, very, very, very long time to play in. They sound dreadful for a full week fresh on. You MUST leave them on until that horrible new string atonality disappears. The same does not apply the D'Addarios ("nickel-bronze") or the JPs ("pure nickel"). I'll be interested to see what the SITs (Monel, like the Martins) do.

11: There is no 11.

LastMantra · May 2023

ICBM said:

DavidR said:

Monels have a more steely and complex tone.

I thought the opposite...

Does that not suggest it's all a bit bollocks?

I'd never heard of Monels until today.

DavidR · May 2023

Why the negativism?

There is so much discussion about tone. Surely a long-lasting cheap alternative to PB is something we should all give a go from time to time. (If there was an alternative material developed for nuts, bridge pins or bridge saddles for example, we'd all want to try it out at some point.)

I only came across Monels a few years ago by accident and was surprised by how different and interesting they were. On some of my instruments. As well as the longevity thing.

Keep an open mind would be my advice.

Go on. Give'em a go! :-)

Gandalph · May 2023

LastMantra said:

ICBM said:

DavidR said:

Monels have a more steely and complex tone.

I thought the opposite...

Does that not suggest it's all a bit bollocks?

I'd never heard of Monels until today.

No, not really.

They're just different. As this thread suggests some folk like em and some don't....and on some guitars and not others.

As with a lot of things it's subjective so only one way to find out is for yourself really. They're cheap enough.

stickyfiddle · May 2023

I liked them on my Martin HD28 for a long time. I barely play that guitar now because I got a Bourgeois that makes it sound like a toy by comparison, which is nothing to do with the strings tbh!

thermionic · May 2023

In my experience, they’re worth trying on a smaller bodied guitar made with a high percentage of mahogany, in particularly capoed up for fingerpicking - so a Martin HD28 is the last guitar I’d try Monels on and expect them to sound good. But as @Gandalph says, try them on a couple of different guitars and see if they work for you.

LastMantra · May 2023

Gandalph said:

LastMantra said:

ICBM said:

DavidR said:

Monels have a more steely and complex tone.

I thought the opposite...

Does that not suggest it's all a bit bollocks?

I'd never heard of Monels until today.

No, not really.

They're just different. As this thread suggests some folk like em and some don't....and on some guitars and not others.

As with a lot of things it's subjective so only one way to find out is for yourself really. They're cheap enough.

Aye, maybe bollocks wasn't the right word.

It's just that if one person is hearing something totally different to the other it becomes a bit more complicated than two people hearing the same thing that one likes but the other doesn't.
It's interesting.
Probably comes down to the individual guitar, and player.

So I totally agree the only way to tell is to try for yourself.

bertie · May 2023

LastMantra said:

Probably comes down to the individual guitar, and player.

So I totally agree the only way to tell is to try for yourself.

yep as you alluded,

guitar + players preference(made from personal tonal taste + hearing ability) + actual difference in tone = subjective conclusion

Smellyfingers · May 2023

On my all mahagony Collings I found the tone of Monels to be less cluttered or more fundamental than other strings.

But I can understand others comments about them being 'one dimensional'

I think string choices are difficult, because there are so many options, there might be a feeling you are somehow always missing out on a better string somewhere that you haven't tried yet.

Trude · May 2023

I use Martin retro monel 13s on both my Martins. (OO-17s and D18). I just tried them one day, liked them and got on with my life. I don't really think much about string types that much to be honest, I just gig them loads and I've found the Martin retros seem to last really well. To my ears they sound pre-worn in from the off, but others here have stated the opposite.

It's tricky though comparing strings, right? I mean you can't exactly AB test them like amps or pedals to quickly shoot-out a bunch of options. You're always comparing one worn out set with another fresh out of the packet.

DavidR · May 2023

Trude said:

I use Martin retro monel 13s on both my Martins. (OO-17s and D18). I just tried them one day, liked them and got on with my life. I don't really think much about string types that much to be honest, I just gig them loads and I've found the Martin retros seem to last really well. To my ears they sound pre-worn in from the off, but others here have stated the opposite.

It's tricky though comparing strings, right? I mean you can't exactly AB test them like amps or pedals to quickly shoot-out a bunch of options. You're always comparing one worn out set with another fresh out of the packet.

Yes I agree. I quite like them right from the satrt too.

Tannin · May 2023

Trude said:

It's tricky though comparing strings, right? I mean you can't exactly AB test them like amps or pedals to quickly shoot-out a bunch of options. You're always comparing one worn out set with another fresh out of the packet.

Well not really. If you only have one guitar, sure. But if you change one at a time out of several, and especially if you make notes as you go along, you can get a very good idea of the merits of different ones.

----------------------------

On another slant, I've been trying out a number of nickel alloy strings on my Guild, which being a bit brash and shouty by nature, benefits from nickel's flatter tone. The D'Addarios work best on it, the Martin Retros not so much, with the John Pierce Pure Nickels somewhere in between.

This week, on a whim, I put a set of my favourite phosphor bronze strings on it, the excellent Galli LS. I have previously tried other conventional strings - D'Addario EJ16s, Elixir, Santa Cruz (all phosphor bronze) and Darco/Martin (brass) - and didn't especially care for any of them, but the Gallis made a clear improvement. I might put the best ("best" here means "best
for this guitar") nickels (D'Addario) on next to more directly compare them.

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Acoustics. The changing fashion for Monels. What's happening now?

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