Acoustic scale lengths - what's out there?

Alexlotl · May 2023

My only acoustic is a Yamaha JR-1 (FG-Jr) which I found at my local charity shop and restored. It sounds surprisingly decent with elixirs on it, but the 21.25" scale is too short for me, so I think I'm going to turn it over to the kids.

I've very briefly tried a Taylor GS Mini (23.5") and that also felt a bit tight, while a Yamaha FS800 (25") felt a bit too roomy. The Taylor GT (24.125") felt just about perfect, but they're fairly expensive apart from the discontinued Urban Ash option, which doesn't show up often second hand. For reference, I play 25.5" scale electrics, but prefer something a bit shorter in an acoustic.

What else is there out there with a scale similar to the GT? Looks like Gibson/Epiphone are 23.75", which I'll have to give a go next time I'm in a guitar shop.

Tannin · May 2023

In acoustics, practically everything is 648mm (same as a Strat) apart from (a) Gibsons and Gibson clones (e.g. Epiphone) at 628mm and (b) small body Martins (0, 00,. and 000) and various fellow travellers at 632mm.

Anything longer or shorter than those lengths is officially weird. You'll normally only see shorter scales in student guitars and mini-guitars.

Most major makers have a "mini" range. They are very seldom much good. In the end, with an acoustic you need to physically move the top to get a sound out of it and it is easier to do that with a full-length scale.

bertie · May 2023

assuming you prefer shorter cos of the lower tension, if true tuning isnt an issue, just tune down 1/2 step, it really can make a world of difference on a full scale, tho the caveat is, ive found it the opposite on short(er) scales, just makes things flubby and toneless

Tannin · May 2023

^Yes to that.

Or of course there are also lighter gauges (try not to go down that route if you do not have to) and best of all, a whole world of lower-tension, easier playing strings to choose from. In my book, this is the best route of all: you stay at standard scale length (with all the advantages that confers, from better intonation through superior tone to to wider choice of instruments), and you have nice gentle-feeling strings, and they are still full-weight and still move that heavy acoustic top (almost) just like old-school hard strings.

Jez6345789 · May 2023

I tend to favor shorter scales due to being a little easier to play with the Arthritis.

So most Gibsons Epiphones are going to be 24.3/4
Gretsch Jim Dandy 24" scale although tonally more blues old Americana.
Some of the Ed sheerans are shorter scale
Wee Loudons are 24" but big bucks

There are as said plenty of shorter-scale so-called travel guitars largely based around the idea of the GS Mini but some are 24" instead of 23.5.

With the shortening of scale, you get a slightly more compressed mid-range tone but a lot of designs and bracings can help overcome limitations the biggest constraint is with smaller body sizes will have more effect than scale length.

In the end, as you are doing play a lot of different types keep an open mind and find something that works for you everybody's guitar needs are different and a lot is dependent on what style of music you like to play but ultimately you can play anything on anything.

thomasross20 · May 2023

Tannin said:

^Yes to that.

Or of course there are also lighter gauges (try not to go down that route if you do not have to) and best of all, a whole world of lower-tension, easier playing strings to choose from. In my book, this is the best route of all: you stay at standard scale length (with all the advantages that confers, from better intonation through superior tone to to wider choice of instruments), and you have nice gentle-feeling strings, and they are still full-weight and still move that heavy acoustic top (almost) just like old-school hard strings.

What lower tensions would you recommend?

I wonder what's preferable... Going down a gauge or detuning a half step. I stay in standard tuning and use 11s. Easier to play AND sounds better, strangely!

Re short scale, can understand re flubby comments etc. Less bass, too...
BUT, they are what they are and if you play light and like a sweet sound, I like the short scale, too. Warmer. Longer scale better for detuning

Choivert · May 2023

thomasross20 said:

Tannin said:

^Yes to that.

Or of course there are also lighter gauges (try not to go down that route if you do not have to) and best of all, a whole world of lower-tension, easier playing strings to choose from. In my book, this is the best route of all: you stay at standard scale length (with all the advantages that confers, from better intonation through superior tone to to wider choice of instruments), and you have nice gentle-feeling strings, and they are still full-weight and still move that heavy acoustic top (almost) just like old-school hard strings.

What lower tensions would you recommend?

I wonder what's preferable... Going down a gauge or detuning a half step. I stay in standard tuning and use 11s. Easier to play AND sounds better, strangely!

Re short scale, can understand re flubby comments etc. Less bass, too...
BUT, they are what they are and if you play light and like a sweet sound, I like the short scale, too. Warmer. Longer better for detuning

I think 10s always sound weedy on an acoustic so would stay with 11s. I've been really impressed with the Newtone heritage series round wound strings. They have a round core so are about 10% less tension. But also the heritage ones are designed to have lower tension and even across the strings. I've got the 12s and have been really impressed.

I would have thought 11s tuned to D or Eflat standard are going to feel pretty loose.

If you like a sweet sound I'd be looking at a full scale smaller bodied guitar with spruce or maybe even cedar too. Tanin is the guy to ask about wood combos but a smaller body can sound wonderfully sweet and be much more comfortable to play. Especially if you play a lot of electrics, a Dreadnaught can feel like a large navy vessel under your arm.

thomasross20 · May 2023

Hmmmm....... How much are these reduced tension newtone strings and are they coated?

Might be me worth trying 12s in those....

In fact I am presently using bluegrass 13s on my parlour to beef up the bass tension but the 13s are a bit heavy feeling so hmm I will check if Newtowne do low tension bluegrass strings.

Tannin · May 2023

I'm about to hit the sack here. It's freezing cold (9:30PM here and 1.2 degrees outside - it didn't get over 9 all day and that was for about 10 minutes just after lunch) WTF? This is July weather, and it's only May! Anyway, Mrs Tannin and I have had a couple of nice warming rakias and I don't promise to make sense. You have been warned,

But anyway, re Thomas's post, in the end, it is all about what works for you, isn't it. Some of the great players of the 60s and 70s used 8s and got fantastic tone. SRV used bridge cables. The moral of the story? Different things work for different people. Yes, they were electric players but the moral still holds. If 9s work for Bruce and 11s work for Thomas and David likes 13s, so be it. Always do what works.

Tannin · May 2023

Arranged (roughly) from lightest to not-so-light, but all very playable.

ROUND CORES:

* Optima Vintage Flex low-tension round core - I have not tried these yet but mention them for completeness

* DR Sunbeam The roundcore benchmark string by which all others are judged. Very hard to beat.

* Newtone Masterclass round core - not to my taste but excellent strings with many fans

* Pyramid Western Folk round core - stiffer than many round core strings. Very good nevertheless

** Curt Mangan round core - quite stiff for a round core. Nice though.

HEX CORES WHICH PLAY LIKE ROUNDCORES:

* Pyramid 307 Silver plated - very soft under the fingers, lovely sound (but different!)

* La Bella Phosphor Bronze - delightful in their own particular way. Play like 11s. Well worth a try.

* Santa Cruz Parabolic Low Tension (coated) - expensive but worth it. Play like 11s. Great feel, long-lasting.

* Martin Flexible Core - good strings which for some reason did not thrill me. I should give them another whirl.

* Adamas Composite - remarkably good strings

* Galli LS - a particular favourite of mine

* Godin A6 - not bad

* Savarez A140L. I haven't warmed to them but they are quite light and easy on the fingers.

Off the top of my head, the lightest strings listed here would be the Pyramid Silvers, the La Bellas, and the Santa Cruz; the heaviest the Pyramid Western Folk (still pretty easy going) and the Curt Mangans (getting a little muscular).

My favourites? Hell, most of them. Not in order: Sunbeams, Curt Mangans, Pyramid Silver, La Bella, Adamas, Galli LS. All good 'uns.

Tannin · May 2023

thomasross20 said:

In fact I am presently using bluegrass 13s on my parlour to beef up the bass tension but the 13s are a bit heavy feeling so hmm I will check if Newtowne do low tension bluegrass strings.

What brand?

PS: Bluegrass strings are 12-56. 13s are 13-56. Not the same thing - and a bigger difference than it seems.

Newtone strings are not coated. They do any size you like. Their extra charge for a custom set is small change. A great service!

bertie · May 2023

I wouldnt down tune anything lower than 12s - not nice, personally I wouldnt even play anything lower than 12s - 13s down 1/2 a step are good

Kilgore · May 2023

Faith Mercury, a hairs width over 24 inches. It is a12 fret parlour though, so not everyone's cup of tea.

Soupman · May 2023

@thomasross20 I have tried Newtone Heritage 11s & 12s.
The 11s I find a little bendy & am about to go back to the 12s . They have a great tone, about £11 a set, they're not coated.

Round core is the way to go for lower tension.

Newtone website states the tension for each string in the sets they do. Only slight downside is I find their website a bit of a dog's breakfast, but hey, they're great strings & they're made over here!

Other lower tension strings to consider would be the DR Sunbeams/Rare or I believe their Dragonskins are coated but not tried them (see their website).

I use Elixir 12s on my other guitar, total stated tension is 162 lbs, the Heritage come in at 131 lbs.
By comparison D'adarrio 11s are around 150lbs.

As you can see, I had a good look, trying to reduce the strain on an older guitar......

thomasross20 · May 2023

This is super interesting. I'm out just now so short reply - the "bluegrass" I use are daddario coated with 13s on bottom, can't recall name just now

jellyroll · May 2023

I’ve been experimenting with Martin 12.5 strings (MA545) on my D28 thinking they would be a good compromise between 12s and13s. but I reckon I’m gonna go back to 13s. That guitar just seems a bit feeble to me with anything less. Plus I prefer the feel of thicker strings.

On my Gibsons I use 12s though.

Shadow · May 2023

Alexlotl said:

My only acoustic is a Yamaha JR-1 (FG-Jr) which I found at my local charity shop and restored. It sounds surprisingly decent with elixirs on it, but the 21.25" scale is too short for me, so I think I'm going to turn it over to the kids.

I've very briefly tried a Taylor GS Mini (23.5") and that also felt a bit tight, while a Yamaha FS800 (25") felt a bit too roomy. The Taylor GT (24.125") felt just about perfect, but they're fairly expensive apart from the discontinued Urban Ash option, which doesn't show up often second hand. For reference, I play 25.5" scale electrics, but prefer something a bit shorter in an acoustic.

What else is there out there with a scale similar to the GT? Looks like Gibson/Epiphone are 23.75", which I'll have to give a go next time I'm in a guitar shop.

There's a secondhand urban ash at Rich Tone in Sheffield for £999.

guitarjack66 · May 2023

I play similar to classical style,not quite but similar. Guitar more across left thigh than right (as a right hander/southpaw) but I capo at around 2nd fret by default. I do feel a slightly shorter scale would suit though.

rlw · May 2023

There's also an Urban Ash GTe on reverb for £800.00 including postage. I'm tempted myself.

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Acoustic scale lengths - what's out there?

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