Mac Mini vs Scan Custom Build

McSwaggerty · May 2023

For studio work want to upgrade from an off shelf HP i7-8700 and trying to choose. Never used Apple before, but these new mini machines are priced competitively for apple.

Opinions?

spark240 · May 2023

@octatonic ?

octatonic · May 2023

Really I'd need more information on the exact spec of each machine to be precise but some initial thoughts...

The Mac Mini is probably going to be 2-3 times more powerful than an i7-8700.

Geekbench reports that the i7-8700 at around 1500 for single core and 6000 for multicore.
The M2 Pro Mac Mini will be 2700 for single core and 14000 for multicore.
Even the 2020 Mac Mini will beat the i7 at 2300/8300.

Click on the links to see the scores.

But... the PC will be more upgradeable, in that you can upgrade precisely nothing in the Macs once they are built.
Which sucks.

It is a trade off though- you get so much performance due to Apple's move to SoC and that is incompatible with upgrading components because the system is on a chip- RAM and CPU.
(There are other reasons- but let's not get into that).

If it is just a studio computer I tend to think a Mac for an easier life.
But be aware that everything will have to be external to the Mac- hard drives, audio interfaces and such.

If you also want to game on it- forget getting a Mac- get a PC and stick a stonking graphics card in it.
(If you want to do graphics then it becomes even more complicated- you can get a Mac that is more powerful but you are looking at a £5k Mac Pro with £5k worth of graphics cards in it and you get shit single core.)

I've got a Mac Studio Ultra which canes all the other computers I have in every single metric *other* than graphics performance.
My self build Ryzen i9 with a Radeon 6900XT reports a Compute score of 196000 against the Studio's 75000.
It isn't even close.

Oh and all the current Macs, even the high end machines are still PCIE 3.0.
PCIE 4.0, which is on pretty much all current PCs, is much faster.
This specifically impacts things like drive speeds.
And PCIE 5.0 is common now on PCs (although we don't have any PCIE 5.0 storage right now).
But for audio it doesn't really matter- at least for tracking audio.
Any modern computer will do OK.

I don't advocate for buying an off the shelf PC though.
It is almost always going to cost more and perform worse than a self build.
You learn a lot in doing it and can be a lot more self sufficient, which you will need if you get a PC because they require more fettling than a Mac tends to need.
There are loads of videos online to show you how- it really isn't that hard.

McSwaggerty · May 2023

octatonic said: Really I'd need more information on the exact spec of each machine to be precise but some initial thoughts...

The Mac Mini is probably going to be 2-3 times more powerful than an i7-8700.

Geekbench reports that the i7-8700 at around 1500 for single core and 6000 for multicore.
The M2 Pro Mac Mini will be 2700 for single core and 14000 for multicore.
Even the 2020 Mac Mini will beat the i7 at 2300/8300.

Click on the links to see the scores.

But... the PC will be more upgradeable, in that you can upgrade precisely nothing in the Macs once they are built.
Which sucks.

It is a trade off though- you get so much performance due to Apple's move to SoC and that is incompatible with upgrading components because the system is on a chip- RAM and CPU.
(There are other reasons- but let's not get into that).

If it is just a studio computer I tend to think a Mac for an easier life.
But be aware that everything will have to be external to the Mac- hard drives, audio interfaces and such.

If you also want to game on it- forget getting a Mac- get a PC and stick a stonking graphics card in it.
(If you want to do graphics then it becomes even more complicated- you can get a Mac that is more powerful but you are looking at a £5k Mac Pro with £5k worth of graphics cards in it and you get shit single core.)

I've got a Mac Studio Ultra which canes all the other computers I have in every single metric *other* than graphics performance.
My self build Ryzen i9 with a Radeon 6900XT reports a Compute score of 196000 against the Studio's 75000.
It isn't even close.

Oh and all the current Macs, even the high end machines are still PCIE 3.0.
PCIE 4.0, which is on pretty much all current PCs, is much faster.
This specifically impacts things like drive speeds.
And PCIE 5.0 is common now on PCs (although we don't have any PCIE 5.0 storage right now).
But for audio it doesn't really matter- at least for tracking audio.
Any modern computer will do OK.

I don't advocate for buying an off the shelf PC though.
It is almost always going to cost more and perform worse than a self build.
You learn a lot in doing it and can be a lot more self sufficient, which you will need if you get a PC because they require more fettling than a Mac tends to need.
There are loads of videos online to show you how- it really isn't that hard.

Many Thanks....You have given me a lot to think about.
The fact that you can't upgrade a Mac was always my concern, and as say, It sucks.
Thought about building my own PC in the past, but never did get around to it. Maybe now its time to seriously consider it.
Thanks again.

Jez6345789 · May 2023

I use Macs for everything and have been in the Mac world for a long time.
I used to build all my own PC's and I get that whole idea of upgradability but it is less of an issue than PC users would have you believe.

On both machines, you are probably going to use an external audio interface having an internal one is not a deal breaker.
The constant adding of faster drives and more memory to get a 2-year-old PC to work abit faster is really not something you experience on a Mac I still have a 2008 macbook pro doing good work with 4gig of memory.

The new Apple Silicon may not be a game players delight over a dedicated graphics card but you can do a lot in musical terms with one as the home for your DAW.

octatonic · May 2023

No worries- I don't mind helping you a bit remotely if you need help with the build.

Use PCPartpicker.
It is great.

Here are three builds I've just done for you.

1. https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/uptheoctave/saved/#view=fvgrGX

This one is a really nice i7 with integrated graphics, using good quality parts, nothing cheap and enough power to do everything you want.
£1370.
I'm not suggesting you buy it- I did it in literally 3 mins, using parts I know work well and aren't difficult to put together.
There is no discrete graphics card in this system- but the great thing with a PC is you can always add one in.

2. High end build with a 4080.

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/uptheoctave/saved/#view=9cWJwP

More RAM, better power supply, stonking graphics card. Twice the price. £3240.
Will be expensive to run as it uses twice the power of 1) and 4 times of 3).

3. Budget AMD build.
Not massively different to 1) but just from AMD.
Still a great machine- I have one of these as a media server in a smaller case.
Cheap to run
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/NMwbBj
£1100

You *can* go cheaper but this gives you an idea of how you can approach it.

McSwaggerty · May 2023

octatonic said:

No worries- I don't mind helping you a bit remotely if you need help with the build.

Use PCPartpicker.
It is great.

Here are three builds I've just done for you.

1. https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/uptheoctave/saved/#view=fvgrGX

This one is a really nice i7 with integrated graphics, using good quality parts, nothing cheap and enough power to do everything you want.
£1370.
I'm not suggesting you buy it- I did it in literally 3 mins, using parts I know work well and aren't difficult to put together.
There is no discrete graphics card in this system- but the great thing with a PC is you can always add one in.

2. High end build with a 4080.

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/uptheoctave/saved/#view=9cWJwP

More RAM, better power supply, stonking graphics card. Twice the price. £3240.
Will be expensive to run as it uses twice the power of 1) and 4 times of 3).

3. Budget AMD build.
Not massively different to 1) but just from AMD.
Still a great machine- I have one of these as a media server in a smaller case.
Cheap to run
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/NMwbBj
£1100

You *can* go cheaper but this gives you an idea of how you can approach it.

Excellent, Great Stuff !!!
I'm definately going to look into this....will let you know how it goes.
Many Thanks.

Snap · June 2023

To add, building a PC is very easy. The key, is getting the best parts for your money. Actually putting it together is a cinch.

Stratavarious · June 2023

If you have a need for a specific Mac software.. Logic and Final Cut for me, then that sways it. I actually use Reaper on my Mac more though.

For Reaper, it’s the same experience on Mac and PC. So I uses windows laptops for on site stuff.

I went for an M2 Mac mini with a second 2TB SSD docked instead of a Mac Studio.. solid bit of kit. 1080p editing and 20+ track DAW work barely makes it warm up.

You could pay a fortune for masses of redundant horsepower.

Bats_ · June 2023

If you have not use an apple machine at all, ever... then the OS itself is very different to Windows and there is a learning curve, some folks say "they just work"... I say, yeah ok sometimes in a very backward, why the hell does it work like that way...

I have used apple stuff for years so you do get used to it and garage band is surprisingly good and free.

And on that note if you are set on an apple device, I have an M1 macmini I am looking to sell if you are interested, I'm in Oxfordshire.

GoFish · June 2023

The Apple hardware and integration is super - this applies to ports as well, it's pretty hassle free compared to a PC.

@octatonic has done more up there than I could. If going with a PC, Partpicker now make everything easier - my advice is not to skimp on the power supply (where a lots of pre built ones will). Expert remote help is very useful and I'd use it if this is the route you go down. If you're in S London area and need some physical help too, let me know and we'll struggle though it together, lol.

Stuckfast · June 2023

The thing about the new Apple Silicon Macs is that they go like shit off a shovel with code that is optimised for Apple Silicon. As yet, that does not include quite a lot of third-party plug-ins, and more significantly, does not include quite a few of the plug-ins that are bundled with DAWs such as Cubase and Pro Tools. So, even though the DAW itself may be Apple Silicon optimised, you may not get great performance from all the plug-ins that come with it. (Logic would be the obvious exception there, being an Apple product.)

Nerine · July 2023

I’ve mixed about 1,000 + songs on a late 2012 Mac Mini. (i7)

My studio runs on a 27” iMac these days.

You really don’t need a hugely powerful machine for audio. I’d ensure good capacity, fast drives and probably 32GB RAM if you’re planning on running a few VI’s.

I’d also go Apple all day long. They’re just much less of a faff when configuring, installing software, hardware etc.

Chimpankie · July 2023

Jez6345789 said:

I use Macs for everything and have been in the Mac world for a long time.
I used to build all my own PC's and I get that whole idea of upgradability but it is less of an issue than PC users would have you believe.

On both machines, you are probably going to use an external audio interface having an internal one is not a deal breaker.
The constant adding of faster drives and more memory to get a 2-year-old PC to work abit faster is really not something you experience on a Mac I still have a 2008 macbook pro doing good work with 4gig of memory.

The new Apple Silicon may not be a game players delight over a dedicated graphics card but you can do a lot in musical terms with one as the home for your DAW.

I used to be an assemble-my-own guy too but only use a PC these days when I have to for work. Mac Mini in the office, MacBook Air for on the go, both M1. Super fast and never had any issues with Logic even with fairly heavy plugins running.

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