Who owns the PA in your band?

roundthebend · May 2023

I'm taking about generic pub covers bands here, nothing high end. Just a bunch (4) of modest musicians who do it for fun and a bit of beer money.

To be independent of kit hire and sound engineers we need our own PA system. But then you have the question of who owns it? Who stores it? Who transports it? Who maintains it?

I feel the best way is for one person to do that, or at least each piece of kit is solely owned by a single person rather than saying all 4 people jointly own everything. E.g. I might own the mixer, someone else owns the tops, another owns a sub etc.

Now, how does the cost and extra responsibility get covered off?

I'm suggesting to my band that I own the lot, and I take an extra cut from each gig until I've recovered, say, 50% of the outlay. From then on I'll take a smaller cut as a token fee for the effort. Maybe in s couple of years I'll be in profit, but then more kit will be needed maybe.

Main thing is to get it all agreed up front. Have I missed any factors? What if something breaks down and needs repair or replacing?

Dontgiveupyourdayjob · May 2023

I'm very lucky in that respect. In my band the lead singer and her partner own all the PA gear. He's the 'sound engineer' too - so he sets everything up and makes sure it's all tickety boo.

All the rest of us have to do is turn up with our own gear and plug it in, and then help strip everything down and load the van at the end. He takes a cut of the fee for his troubles.

roundthebend · May 2023

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

I'm very lucky in that respect. In my band the lead singer and her partner own all the PA gear. He's the 'sound engineer' too - so he sets everything up and makes sure it's all tickety boo.

All the rest of us have to do is turn up with our own gear and plug it in, and then help strip everything down and load the van at the end. He takes a cut of the fee for his troubles.

What % cut does he take, if you don't mind me asking?

Tannin · May 2023

Yep. You are on the right track. With our mob the singer owned it and we paid him to hire it. From memory we paid about half what we would have paid to hire one from a hire agency. We saved money, he made a little bit, everybody happy.

Mind you, we all paid for our own instruments and amps and in the smaller venues we didn't need to put guitar and bass and drums through the PA, just the vocals, so you could say that the singer should have paid for the PA himself as he was the only one who needed it, but actually that wasn't the case as we all did backing vocals and the guitar player sometimes used to sing lead.

Bottom line: get an arrangement you have all agreed to up front and don't sweat the small change. Just enjoy playing.

Wazmeister · May 2023

I purchased, owned, lumped, carried, maintained and set up the PA in my old band…

As a result, it is now my ‘ex’ band

p90fool · May 2023

Wazmeister said:

I purchased, owned, lumped, carried, maintained and set up the PA in my old band…

Me too, in my current band. I also had to lend the bass player a bass and an amp for over a year. At one point I realised that my wife and I (she's the drummer) had over seven grand sat on the stage while the two singers owned a pair of SM58s and a plectrum, despite us all being paid the same.

I made the pair of them buy their own vocal-only PA, and the bass player his own amp. He still doesn't own a bass and according to the pics of a local music photographer on Facebook, seems to have lent mine to someone else.

Don't be like me, in other words.

slacker · May 2023

There's a film where the lead singer gets fired and takes all of his gear which is a scarf tied around the mic stand.

In my experience it has varied. If the singer don't play they are sometimes expected to have a small pa. Some bands split gear. Some bands the leader owns the pa and sometimes a van. Sometimes the cost is split and the pa gets a percentage to repay the band sometimes not.

I depped for a friend's covers band where the pa cost a fortune and all the band money went into paying off a loan. The pa took two hours to unload and set up. I worked minimum wage most of the day as a roadie.
I didn't do it again.

If there's a clear leader then they own the pa. It's difficult to fire someone or even ask them to learn their instrument if they own the pa.

Danny1969 · May 2023

It's the old joke .... if you see the bass player take a solo then he probably owns the PA

There's so many ways of doing it. We have a 4.2 ton jumbo Transit van and all the equipment inc guitar and bass amps lives in that. At the end of the gig the van is packed and it goes back to my gaff. No one lumps amps and PA into their house which is nice.

You could split the cost .... 2 people buy an active speaker each, one buys the desk. These things are sellable on their own should the band split up.

Roland · May 2023

When I joined the band it had its own PA, and I had mine. I say “it” because I don’t know who owned the original equipment. Over the years we’ve each contributed replacement parts. Except for the cables it’s clear who owns which bits.

Most of the equipment is stored at my house because I’ve got the space, and the biggest car.

Musicwolf · May 2023

I own our PA which I already had coming into the band, same goes for the handful of lights.

When I joined this band we were a 5 piece with only the singer and myself (backing vocals and Helix) going into the PA. We're now a 3 piece with backing tracks, vocals and 2 guitars direct to the PA. That's fine as long as everything works but, if we have to replace any part of it, we'll have to come up with a plan to jointly fund it.

Ossyrocks · May 2023

I own the PA in my band. I have always owned a PA since the 90’s in various forms. But I used to be the singer, so I think that’s fair enough. These days I’m not the singer, I’m the bass player, and my PA gets used simply because it’s the best one between us. It does irk me to have to load it in the car, take it, set it up, run FOH, break it down, load it back in the car, load it back in the house etc. I’m actually thinking of selling it, then letting the band know I no longer have one! When I started playing bass, I thought one of the perks would be an easier life gear wise!

I’m never comfortable with uneven splits of money either. To me, unless you’re brought in to a big professional function style band where everyone is on wages, say £200 a man, then the money should always be an even split.
Rob

EricTheWeary · May 2023

Storage was essentially whoever had space. At one point our PA was stored in the same garage where the sax player’s Alsatians slept so it was always covered in an inch of dog hair.

I have made some financial contributions toward PA gear either up front or via gig fees but have never ended up with any of it so I’ve lost £hundreds I guess over the years I guess. It is one of those things that even if there is a clear and sensible solution I’ve never been in a band that’s done it.

Dontgiveupyourdayjob · May 2023

roundthebend said:

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

I'm very lucky in that respect. In my band the lead singer and her partner own all the PA gear. He's the 'sound engineer' too - so he sets everything up and makes sure it's all tickety boo.

All the rest of us have to do is turn up with our own gear and plug it in, and then help strip everything down and load the van at the end. He takes a cut of the fee for his troubles.

What % cut does he take, if you don't mind me asking?

It's usually an even split. There's 4 of us in the band 'proper' and we split the fee 5 ways. It's not actually a written in stone sort of arrangement, we're all pretty casual about it really. We all play more for the fun of it than the actual money anyway; the £ is just an added bonus.

TheBigDipper · May 2023

I've been in bands where we wrote an informal "equal partnership" letter and all signed it. It meant we could buy PA gear as a partnership and each of us own the same percentage of it and track it as an asset. When someone leaves, you agree the market value of their share and buy them out. Maybe their replacement buys in and pays for that share and maybe they don't (or can't afford to). But gig fees can be used to pay it off. There's always a way.

mudslide73 · May 2023

Our drummer and the other guitarist jointly own the PA and have actively discouraged any financial assistance when renewing any items. I've tried to contribute in other ways (lighting, stands, recording equipment etc.) but obviously the cost isn't anywhere near that of the PA.

robinbowes · May 2023

I used to work for a PA company in York back in the 80s. I also did live sound for a while for a successful party band.

Fast forward to 2017 and I find myself playing guitar in a band featuring the singer from the aforementioned party band. He wanted to buy a PA so we weren't hiring in all the time, but I knew it would be down to me to make it sound good because of my history.

We agreed that I would buy a decent PA and the band would pay me £100 to "hire" it. I then spent the best part of £10k on a great rig (HK Audio Linear 5, Yamaha TF-Rack mixer + digital stagebox, plenty of great mics, DI boxes, cables, etc).

We ended up only doing around 20 gigs before lockdown effectively finished the band. I still have the PA!

sw67 · May 2023

Quite simple - the PA was purchased with gig money and belongs to the band and the current members equally. Cost us about 2k four years ago. We had a problem with a previous guy that left and wanted bought out of PA and as he stored it we didn’t have a choice. Now if you leave it’s with nothing as agreed by everyone before buying new pa

PhilKing · May 2023

I own the PA for my band. When I joined they had a small PA that was a couple of active speakers with a mixer built in. This was fine for when they were starting, but the band grew and we needed more, especially as we had an electronic drum kit. I already had a mixer and a lot of mics. I picked up some large active speakers and stands. Eventually we needed more (it was a 10 piece band at that point), so I added an extra couple of speakers. We used the old PA for monitoring. I also have the multicores. I never asked for any money for it, as a lot of the band members were younger and didn't have much money. In other bands we have pooled money to get the PA.

fastonebaz · May 2023

Someone needs to own it.

thomasw88 · May 2023

Last few years I own the pa and lights.

everyone owns their own instruments/amps etc.
Makes the whole thing less hassle. I take £10 a gig extra to cover a bit of fuel and a bit towards the pa costs. I'm thinking Ill have to put that cost up a wee bit in the next couple of months.

I did make the singer buy a microphone as it was the only thing she had to have, but I do have enough mics to cover if need be.

guitarmangler · May 2023

Four of us in a five piece band joint own the PA. Other guitarist bought the lights, I bought a behringer xair mixer and do the sound. Other guitar player stores it in his garage and gets it to the gig. We help tear down and set up.

Jalapeno · May 2023

We hired a (really shitty) PA until we could afford our own. We put all gig fees in a pot and over-paid for practice hire (no more than £5 a session, and between 4) until we could afford our own very basic mixer/amp & speakers. We each had our own mics/stands etc.

We then did the same for lights.

A long-winded way of saying joint ownership.

We overdid it on speakers/wedges I keep 4, plus lights, bassist keeps the other 2 speakers and mixer/amp.

ICBM · May 2023

I do. But I haven't used it for a proper gig in about fifteen years, and I'm trying not to again - it's just a massive hassle to cart it all into a bar and set up... we prefer to play places that are proper music venues and have a house system. Although I did use some of it for a village fun day six or seven years ago!

I should sell it all really, but... it cost me next to nothing - I accumulated it over the years, many parts as refused-estimate repairs which I bought for pennies and then fixed myself - and I get the nagging feeling that one day I'll need it for something where hiring one is even more of a pain and costs money.

ESBlonde · May 2023

I own the pa, that way I know it’s good for purpose. The danger continues to be that I load into my vehicle then load into the venue, then mostly set it up, then break it down - I usually get some help on load out but have to load the vehicle and then unload at home and store.

At 64 I’m by far the youngest of the three or 4 of us but even in past times I’ve always felt lumbered so beware people with no invested interest will be reluctant to partake of any work, a charge for the service is reasonable in many circumstances IMHO.

firepaulmusic · May 2023

I own the PA in my 3-piece band. I take 10% of whatever fee we get. The only issue I can foresee is if a bit of kit gets dropped/damaged by a band member loading in/out. Because I'm paid to provide the system doesn't mean there's a no guilt clause for damage...

roundthebend · May 2023

firepaulmusic said:

I own the PA in my 3-piece band. I take 10% of whatever fee we get. The only issue I can foresee is if a bit of kit gets dropped/damaged by a band member loading in/out. Because I'm paid to provide the system doesn't mean there's a no guilt clause for damage...

So, do you have an agreement about what happens then? I'm thinking that I will recoup 50% of the cost from gig fees, and then just take a flat hire rate. So, a £350 sub needs replacing..... I'll start taking a bigger cut until I've had £175.

Jalapeno · May 2023

roundthebend said:

firepaulmusic said:

I own the PA in my 3-piece band. I take 10% of whatever fee we get. The only issue I can foresee is if a bit of kit gets dropped/damaged by a band member loading in/out. Because I'm paid to provide the system doesn't mean there's a no guilt clause for damage...

So, do you have an agreement about what happens then? I'm thinking that I will recoup 50% of the cost from gig fees, and then just take a flat hire rate. So, a £350 sub needs replacing..... I'll start taking a bigger cut until I've had £175.

Need to be uber-explicit about stuff like that or you could end up being perceived as being like Lindsay Buckingham and the mess of his studio costs during Tusk recording

Rkphilpot · May 2023

We hire our PA, as we only gig once a month or so it makes more sense than buying one. We get it at an absolute steal, so any money we earn goes to hiring cost before we then split the surplus.

We are a three piece, I sing and play guitar, which means its my responsibility to arrange collection and return of the PA around my shift work and the gig, along with providing my own stuff for playing guitar. Also all 3 vocal mics...and instrument mics...and drum mics...cables...ipads (2)...lights...oh to be a bass player.

fastonebaz · May 2023

I think i might start charging the singer 10% of fees for everything I've spent on guitar equipment. Oh and a drumkit with 7 cymbals and 4 toms is pretty expensive that's another 10%.

Danny1969 · May 2023

Generally you should all end up earning a lot more money than you ever put in the PA. The HK Actor DX we got in one band was about 5K back in 2008 but we've earnt that 30 times over from then till now. I have replaced the amps in the bass bins because no matter the quality class D amps will always fail at some point. That was £425 x 2, they failed within 2 months of each other after 10 years which is fairly typical. If you choose the gear wisely it will go on for quite a long time, some things like decent mic's will outlast the band members. If you make the cables yourself out of decent quality mic cable and Neutrik XRL's they will almost never need replacing.
I spend very little on guitars and amps because I don't think it's necessary to. Cheap guitars are so good these days and a decent 2nd hand valve amp can be picked up for £350. Spend the money on the PA instead.

ScreamingDave · May 2023

In my last band we bought the PA and lights together, but I stored it and lugged it around in my company’s van, so when the band split, possession is nine-tenths and all that jazz! In the new band me and the keyboard player are what’s left of the old band, so I figure we own it, but having said that it’s not an issue who owns it. There’s no hint of us getting our own way or we take our ball home. We’re kind of grown ups now!

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Who owns the PA in your band?

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