Modeller for theatre work

longshins · April 2023

Hi there, I’m going to be doing some on stage theatre work soon and I’ll need to switch between an acoustic and electric. I’d like a modeller where I can have both plugged in at once then just hit a footswitch to change between them, I’d also like xlr outs, I also can’t afford a quad cortex so budget options get bonus points. Thanks!

Musicwolf · April 2023

My Helix has an additional Aux In which you can use to connect a guitar with active pickups / pre-amp (i.e. an acoustic guitar). You can select whether you use main or aux input for each patch or, as I plan to do when my PRS SE Hollowbody Piezo arrives in the next couple of weeks, have two amp paths running in parallel.

If you are going to be using two guitars then you could add a simple A/B box in front of a modeller which has just a single input. It means hitting two switches rather than one when you change (A/B to select guitar + modeller to select patch) but you can get an A/B for around £20 which opens up your choice of modellers.

longshins · April 2023

Thanks, I have a Helix stomp and pod go already. Maybe I should upgrade to the big one? I don’t want to mess around with a/b boxes in an ideal world…

mrkb · April 2023

FM3 can be picked up for £900 used and can take two inputs

Roland · April 2023

Do you need to use a real acoustic guitar, or just have an acoustic guitar sound? That FM3, or a Helix, can do a very close simulation. Fewer guitars to carry, and changeover is a single foot tap.

Danny1969 · April 2023

I used a Pod Go, no AB box just used to take off the electric and plug the acoustic into the same cable. I used a stereo DI box to go the PA as the Pod Go's outputs aren't the greatest noise wise on the big stages.

BlueStrat · April 2023

An upgrade to the helix would make sense since you’re already familiar with the sounds from the stomp and PodGo. Selling them will get you most of the way to the helix.

Do you really need a true acoustic? The Helix acoustic sim is excellent and the audience won’t know the difference, they’ll be watching the show not cork sniffing tone chasers

kennedydream1980 · April 2023

FM3 all the way :-)

longshins · April 2023

I need a real acoustic unfortunately, I’m on stage and it’s part of the aesthetic of the show. The fractal looks perfect… bit pricey though, I guess I’ll need to have a bit of a sell up.

menamestom · April 2023

What about getting a wireless system like the Boss WL-50 with an extra transmitter. Plug one into each guitar.

Musicwolf · April 2023

Guitar lead with a silent plug.

digitalscream · April 2023

If you already have a Stomp, then why not just get an input switcher?

longshins · April 2023

Musicwolf said:

Guitar lead with a silent plug.

I asked about these before and got a mixed response, apparently they can fail?

longshins · April 2023

digitalscream said:

If you already have a Stomp, then why not just get an input switcher?

Because it’s another thing to worry about plus I’d like xlr outs. It is a logical solution though, I guess I’m doing that typical guitarist thing trying to convince myself to buy stuff

Grangousier · April 2023

Something I've thought about with the Stomp (but have never needed to do it, so it's just theoretical), would be to have one guitar input and output on the Left channel, the other on the Right and have particular patches for each that switch between them (so the one you're not using would be muted when you switch patches). As I say, though, I've never tried it. I've plugged electro-acoustics and active basses in without thinking about it and never had what I would identify as a problem (though it might be a problem if there's an active guitar in one channel and a passive one in the other).

digitalscream · April 2023

longshins said:

digitalscream said:

If you already have a Stomp, then why not just get an input switcher?

Because it’s another thing to worry about plus I’d like xlr outs. It is a logical solution though, I guess I’m doing that typical guitarist thing trying to convince myself to buy stuff

In that case...get a Helix LT. Use all your existing patches, it does everything you need, and they're really cheap (especially if you go used).

longshins · April 2023

digitalscream said:

longshins said:

digitalscream said:

If you already have a Stomp, then why not just get an input switcher?

Because it’s another thing to worry about plus I’d like xlr outs. It is a logical solution though, I guess I’m doing that typical guitarist thing trying to convince myself to buy stuff

In that case...get a Helix LT. Use all your existing patches, it does everything you need, and they're really cheap (especially if you go used).

I think that might be the ticket, if I did go for the fractal I’d want to go new for the warranty etc, but they are super pricey, out of stock and want to charge extra for a three year warranty so they can sod off. I’m guessing with the helix LT I’ll need to do a snazzy trick with the return and Y split block to have two guitars plugged in at once but I’m sure it can be done.

Musicwolf · April 2023

longshins said:

Musicwolf said:

Guitar lead with a silent plug.

I asked about these before and got a mixed response, apparently they can fail?

I've heard this but from my own experience I've got three. One on a lead that I bought already made up and two that I've used to make up leads myself. All Neutrik parts (2 x angled, 1 x straight), daily use for one of the leads, weekly for the other. At least 5 years of trouble free use but probably closer to 10.

digitalscream · April 2023

longshins said:

digitalscream said:

longshins said:

digitalscream said:

If you already have a Stomp, then why not just get an input switcher?

Because it’s another thing to worry about plus I’d like xlr outs. It is a logical solution though, I guess I’m doing that typical guitarist thing trying to convince myself to buy stuff

In that case...get a Helix LT. Use all your existing patches, it does everything you need, and they're really cheap (especially if you go used).

I think that might be the ticket, if I did go for the fractal I’d want to go new for the warranty etc, but they are super pricey, out of stock and want to charge extra for a three year warranty so they can sod off. I’m guessing with the helix LT I’ll need to do a snazzy trick with the return and Y split block to have two guitars plugged in at once but I’m sure it can be done.

The best thing to do with the LT is just to run two completely separate signal paths, in my opinion - that way, whoever's at the desk can mix your acoustic on a separate channel from the electric signal. Just remember, they need to switch off phantom power if you're using the XLR outs.

I used to do a similar trick when I was the only guitarist in the band - my lead snapshot enabled the second signal path, which took its input from a splitter on the bass player's board and ran it through an octave up block, a doubler (to distinguish it from the actual bass) and an amp/cab block, and ran out to FoH on a separate output. That way, the "rhythm guitar" didn't completely disappear when I played a solo.

mrkb · April 2023

longshins said:

digitalscream said:

longshins said:

digitalscream said:

If you already have a Stomp, then why not just get an input switcher?

Because it’s another thing to worry about plus I’d like xlr outs. It is a logical solution though, I guess I’m doing that typical guitarist thing trying to convince myself to buy stuff

In that case...get a Helix LT. Use all your existing patches, it does everything you need, and they're really cheap (especially if you go used).

I think that might be the ticket, if I did go for the fractal I’d want to go new for the warranty etc, but they are super pricey, out of stock and want to charge extra for a three year warranty so they can sod off. I’m guessing with the helix LT I’ll need to do a snazzy trick with the return and Y split block to have two guitars plugged in at once but I’m sure it can be done.

G66 are European distributor of Fractal FM3s and give a transferable 3 year warranty.

mrkb · April 2023

I see you are northants based, if you fancy popping round you can try my FM9 out to see what you think of modelling/ I/O flexibility etc and compare to your line6 get in contact. I’m just west of Northampton.

longshins · April 2023

mrkb said:

I see you are northants based, if you fancy popping round you can try my FM9 out to see what you think of modelling/ I/O flexibility etc and compare to your line6 get in contact. I’m just west of Northampton.

That’s really kind thanks, I’m near Wellingborough so if the Helix option doesn’t work out I’ll be in touch.

longshins · April 2023

Just a quick one then, can I use snapshots on the LT to switch between the normal input and the return to access the separate paths? So electric guitar in the input and electro acoustic in the return jack? If that does work, will the idle input/path be muted? Sorry if it’s a stupid question.

digitalscream · April 2023

longshins said:

Just a quick one then, can I use snapshots on the LT to switch between the normal input and the return to access the separate paths? So electric guitar in the input and electro acoustic in the return jack? If that does work, will the idle input/path be muted? Sorry if it’s a stupid question.

Yes.

Simplest way is to just put a volume block at the start of each path, and assign its bypass state to snapshots. That way, you preserve any delay and reverb trails from the bypassed chain when you switch between them. Or you can put the volume block at the end to cut them off.

longshins · April 2023

digitalscream said:

longshins said:

Just a quick one then, can I use snapshots on the LT to switch between the normal input and the return to access the separate paths? So electric guitar in the input and electro acoustic in the return jack? If that does work, will the idle input/path be muted? Sorry if it’s a stupid question.

Yes.

Simplest way is to just put a volume block at the start of each path, and assign its bypass state to snapshots. That way, you preserve any delay and reverb trails from the bypassed chain when you switch between them. Or you can put the volume block at the end to cut them off.

That makes sense, thanks for your help with all this, much appreciated.

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Modeller for theatre work

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