Query failed: connection to localhost:9312 failed (errno=111, msg=Connection refused). “Skill does not write a good song” - Technique Discussions on The Fretboard
UNPLANNED DOWNTIME: 12th Oct 23:45

“Skill does not write a good song”

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Liked this quote I saw today:

"Skill does not write a good song. Louie Louie is better than any song Joe Satriani’s written, but the more skillful you are, the easier it is to execute your vision"



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  • monquixotemonquixote Frets: 17108
    tFB Trader
    No because it conflates songwriting skill with technical ability.

    Joe Satriani is known for instrumental prowess rather than being a great composer.
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  • DefaultMDefaultM Frets: 6724
    I dunno, people seem to like that Coldplay song that Satch wrote.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10211
    edited May 2023
    If Satriani had written Louie Louie it would be one of his worst songs. 
    Paul_C said: People never read the signature bit.
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  • soma1975soma1975 Frets: 6304
    The idea that learning your craft is detrimental to your craft is a myth perpetuated by fucking idiots. 
    My Trade Feedback Thread is here

    Been uploading old tracks I recorded ages ago and hopefully some new noodles here.
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30192
    Having listened to his track on that interview it appears he's fucked on both fronts.

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • DominicDominic Frets: 15285
    There's a difference between a song and a piece of music
    Bach ,Beethoven , Chopin etc wrote incredible music
    Paul Mc Cartney /John Lennon wrote great songs 
    neither could have done the other's job
    I know 2 phenomenal classical pianists .......they are almost like machines that turn busy staves into music but I doubt either of them could actually improvise a decent version of Happy Birthday at a first shot without written music
    You would have to look hard to better Cole Porter ,Irving Berlin etc as songwriters
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  • CrankyCranky Frets: 2109
    It looks to me like two obviously true statements surrounding one obviously subjective statement.  Like it’s trying to trick you into agreeing with latter by sandwiching it between the former.

    And “Louie Louie” is a horrible example to use here for anyone who wasn’t an all-consuming youth during that specific era.

    Overall I don’t like it.  It just mashes up too many things about music-making and music-listening that are complex and interesting and nuanced into something so needlessly singular.  It appeals to the base anti-intellectual in us.
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  • robertyroberty Frets: 10231
    The instruments are just tools for realising a vision. No instrumental prowess can magic a vision into being, it has to be the other way around
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  • TheBigDipperTheBigDipper Frets: 4501
    roberty said:
    The instruments are just tools for realising a vision. No instrumental prowess can magic a vision into being, it has to be the other way around
    Have a wis. And sometimes it's not even a vision, just a happy unplanned accident that you grasp and hold onto for dear life, just grateful that it dropped on you from somewhere... 
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 22257
    It's a terrible quote.

    "Playing skill does not..." is accurate.

    but

    "Compositional skill does not..." would not be accurate.
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  • DannyPDannyP Frets: 1521
    Bit disingenuous to chop off the second half of his sentence:

    Skill does not write a good song. Louie Louie is a better song than any song Joe Satriani’s written, but in the same breath, the more skillful you are, the easier it is for you to execute your vision.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10211
    edited May 2023
    I 99% agree with the sentiment that head and heart come before hands, but I would also add that every now and then a skillful player will come across a little gem or inspiration that comes directly from technique. And it’s also possibly more likely that someone versed in theory will be less likely to reinvent something obvious or hackneyed like a 1564 progression, at least not unknowingly. 
    Paul_C said: People never read the signature bit.
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  • hollywoodroxhollywoodrox Frets: 3605
    Summer song ,Surfing with the alien & Always with me always with you  easily stand against Louie Louie 
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 27656
    Louie Louie - Meh, it's OK but it's just a song.
    Always with me, Always with you - The defining instrumental of a decade. 

    The statement is a fail for me. Besides, it's apples and oranges ain't it.
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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9128
    In other news, Michelin star chefs don't necessarily make great cocktails, and Salvador Dali was a terrible political cartoonist
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  • CaseOfAceCaseOfAce Frets: 1067
    It was a cheap throwaway line from a bloke in a doubtless achingly too cool for school hip New York indie rock band that nobody has ever heard of, that has generated a nice little bit of clickbait traffic for the Guitar World website (which I am of course adding to here ;-)).

    It's a shame cos the band has possibly made some interesting music but stuff like that is a turn-off to potential listeners.
    Just like a headless horse without a horse.
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  • DdiggerDdigger Frets: 2239
    I can see where Dominic is coming from - I have met some seriously good piano and violin players that only appear to be able to play with paper in from of them.  And I know some fiddle players who make music with pretty much nothing to go on and fit in with whoever turns up, playing whatever instrument they bring with them.

    I am not really a fan of instrumental electric guitar, but some Paco de Lucia - yes please, blistering technique, fabulous musicianship and thumping tunes.

    Lets face it, Neil Young doesn't get to record music for his guitar playing or singing abilities - he gets to record music because he writes songs.
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 24852
    axisus said:

    Always with me, Always with you - The defining instrumental of a decade. 

    That's not even the defining instrumental of the record it's on...!?! 
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 23802
    I'd make some sort of point about sweeping generalisations and edge cases, but someone will only reply saying that a drunk in a gutter made a more poignant observation at some point. 
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • BlueingreenBlueingreen Frets: 2506
    edited May 2023
    It's true.

    Take Paul McCartney, arguably one of the greatest songwriters of the past century.  For a few years he wrote masterpiece after masterpiece.  Yet almost everything his reputation rests on was written when he was a very young man.

    Is that because he became less skilful once he passed 30?  Obviously not.  I doubt he lost anything, as a skilful musician.

    He somehow, for reasons I don't think anybody fully understands, lost inspiration.  And in that he is hihgly typical: you could compile a long list of great artists who lived reasonably long lives but who'd done everything that was really special by a young age.  Artists who keep producing outstanding work into middle and old age also exist but there are probably fewer of them.  Their skills were still intact, their creative inspiration had gone.

    Whether Louie Louie is a great song or not is debatable, but it's irrelevant, the principle still holds.  You can have very, very high levels of skill and never create anything of note.  You can have fairly modest skill levels and create a body of great work, as people like Dylan, Lennon and Richards demonstrate.  You can have both, as the great classical composers and jazz musicians tend to.  But even in jazz, for example, many technical wizards created nothing particularly memorable while (relatively speaking) technically limited players like Monk and Ellington were creating great work.

    Great songs need inspiration.  High levels of skill are not enough, and not necessarily essential (although you could put the argument that having written a great song is, of itself, evidence that you must be a skilled songwriter).
    “To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.”
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  • stufisherstufisher Frets: 612
    IMO you get bands (or individuals) who can span multiple talent pools ... Phil Lynott and Thin Lizzy come to mind immediately. The Corries (especially Roy Williamson) would be another good example ... Shane McGowan & The Pogues another, or the Amoo brothers & The Real Thing yet another.

    I agree with @axisus ; ref the quality of Always with me, always with you ... so I've learned to play it (reasonably well I think). I never tire of it and always try to play it better ... it's just a wonderful melody and beautifully conceived ... it speaks without words.

    We old crusties on tFB don't often consider such questions in the context of contemporary artists ... what about Taylor Swift for example ... I know nowt about her but she is reputedly gifted musically and as a writer and can convey meaning and intent. 

    Perhaps the OP is really referring to 'all round ability'  ... like Macca, Stevie Wonder and Prince.


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