Interesting observation on nut width Vs string spacing

BigPaulie · March 2023

I have a 2006 Martin D16-GT and a 2021 Yamaha LL16 ARE.

Nominally they have 1 11/16" (43mm) and 1 3/4" (44mm) nuts respectively. I'll stick to metric measurements from here on.

I've been less comfortable with the feel of the Yamaha in spite of the fact that I love the way it sounds. Incidentally the Yamaha's neck is also significantly chunkier than the Martin's modified low oval profile.

I was putting the difference in feel down to the difference in nut with and and that the Yamaha had wider string spacing but noticed that my fingers were feeling a little cramped, counterintuitively. So I did some measuring.

The Yamaha's nut is 44.11mm with a centre-centre string spacing (at nut) of 35.12mm.

The Martin's nut is 43.25mm with a centre-centre string spacing (at nut) of 37.05mm.

That's a fairly significant 1.84mm difference in string spacing with the narrower nut having the wider string spacing.

Do those numbers look "normal"? I'm thinking of making a new nut for the Yamaha with the same string spacing as the Martin.

FelineGuitars · March 2023

The Yamaha is giving a generous amount of space outside the strings .

Unless there is a reason to keep the strings narrow them making a new nut seems like a good idea

sev112 · March 2023

I want from 11/16 only Taylor to 12/16 (1 3/4) on my Dowina. And I could not beleive how long it took me to adjust . I’m mainly Fingerstyle so it is probably exaggerated because of the style of music.

i think it might also have much to do with neck shape, I might have to try and measure that somehow

BigPaulie · March 2023

sev112 said:

I want from 11/16 only Taylor to 12/16 (1 3/4) on my Dowina. And I could not beleive how long it took me to adjust . I’m mainly Fingerstyle so it is probably exaggerated because of the style of music.

i think it might also have much to do with neck shape, I might have to try and measure that somehow

I take it the Dowina also has a wider nut string spacing than the Taylor?

guitarjack66 · March 2023

It probably goes to show how important actually picking up and playing a guitar is before buying it.

thomasross20 · March 2023

The nut width on all my Larrivee's is the same but the string spacing at the saddle on the parlour is ever so slightly neater... and that is noticeable (not bad, but different)

BigPaulie · April 2023

FelineGuitars said:

The Yamaha is giving a generous amount of space outside the strings .
Unless there is a reason to keep the strings narrow them making a new nut seems like a good idea

I took your advice.

I traced the nut string spacing from my D-16GT on masking tape and transferred that over to the LL16 making a nut from a bone blank.

What a difference! It feels like home now. The neck is quite hefty at 22.8mm deep at the first fret but, in spite of my preference for slimmer necks, it feels very comfortable indeed.

FWIW I don't think the nut I took off the guitar was the factory nut. It is made from bone and the factory specs say urea. So I'm not sure if the narrow nut string spacing of 35.13mm on the old nut is representative of factory specs or if the previous owner wanted narrower spacing for some reason.

bertie · April 2023

FelineGuitars said:

The Yamaha is giving a generous amount of space outside the strings .
Unless there is a reason to keep the strings narrow them making a new nut seems like a good idea

one thing that (the original) benefits is people with "lazy" grip (or fat hands !!) as there is less tendency for flesh to muffle the top E -

sev112 · April 2023

BigPaulie said:

sev112 said:

I want from 11/16 only Taylor to 12/16 (1 3/4) on my Dowina. And I could not beleive how long it took me to adjust . I’m mainly Fingerstyle so it is probably exaggerated because of the style of music.

i think it might also have much to do with neck shape, I might have to try and measure that somehow

I take it the Dowina also has a wider nut string spacing than the Taylor?

Taylor 1 14/32”
Dowina 1 15/32”
(Centre LowE to Centre HighE)

so very small, but very noticeable, which makes me think neck shape/profile/carve has something to do with it

ToneControl · April 2023

BigPaulie said:

I have a 2006 Martin D16-GT and a 2021 Yamaha LL16 ARE.

Nominally they have 1 11/16" (43mm) and 1 3/4" (44mm) nuts respectively. I'll stick to metric measurements from here on.

I've been less comfortable with the feel of the Yamaha in spite of the fact that I love the way it sounds. Incidentally the Yamaha's neck is also significantly chunkier than the Martin's modified low oval profile.

I was putting the difference in feel down to the difference in nut with and and that the Yamaha had wider string spacing but noticed that my fingers were feeling a little cramped, counterintuitively. So I did some measuring.

The Yamaha's nut is 44.11mm with a centre-centre string spacing (at nut) of 35.12mm.

The Martin's nut is 43.25mm with a centre-centre string spacing (at nut) of 37.05mm.

That's a fairly significant 1.84mm difference in string spacing with the narrower nut having the wider string spacing.

Do those numbers look "normal"? I'm thinking of making a new nut for the Yamaha with the same string spacing as the Martin.

Check how far the outer strings are from the start of the roll-off at the end of the frets - it can vary quite a bit.
I've know some guitars with strings a normal distance in from the fret ends, but close to the start of the roll-off.

I'm thinking that if your guitar is set up with a shallow, longer roll-off, that a wider string spacing could get your top E too close to the fret-end roll off

BigPaulie · April 2023

ToneControl said:

BigPaulie said:

I have a 2006 Martin D16-GT and a 2021 Yamaha LL16 ARE.

Nominally they have 1 11/16" (43mm) and 1 3/4" (44mm) nuts respectively. I'll stick to metric measurements from here on.

I've been less comfortable with the feel of the Yamaha in spite of the fact that I love the way it sounds. Incidentally the Yamaha's neck is also significantly chunkier than the Martin's modified low oval profile.

I was putting the difference in feel down to the difference in nut with and and that the Yamaha had wider string spacing but noticed that my fingers were feeling a little cramped, counterintuitively. So I did some measuring.

The Yamaha's nut is 44.11mm with a centre-centre string spacing (at nut) of 35.12mm.

The Martin's nut is 43.25mm with a centre-centre string spacing (at nut) of 37.05mm.

That's a fairly significant 1.84mm difference in string spacing with the narrower nut having the wider string spacing.

Do those numbers look "normal"? I'm thinking of making a new nut for the Yamaha with the same string spacing as the Martin.

Check how far the outer strings are from the start of the roll-off at the end of the frets - it can vary quite a bit.
I've know some guitars with strings a normal distance in from the fret ends, but close to the start of the roll-off.

I'm thinking that if your guitar is set up with a shallow, longer roll-off, that a wider string spacing could get your top E too close to the fret-end roll off

Thanks for the advice.

I had considered that before making the new nut.

I've put up a couple of pics to show the old nut Vs the new one. The new nut is the pic with the mirror in the background. You can see that the spacing takes the strings closer to the edges, but there's still plenty room within the fret end bevels to avoid fall-of. It feels much better now. Please excuse the dust. That's bone dust from making the new nut. I haven't cleaned it off yet. Too busy playing it.

I'm almost 100% certain that the old nut wasn't the factory one.

https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjAzTNa

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Interesting observation on nut width Vs string spacing

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