Bad Monkey - Still loved?

Stevepage · March 2023

I loved mine and was considering buying one again. But now prices have shot up because of that damn video. Unbelievable

impmann · March 2023

They’ll go back to low price soon enough. Especially if/when Digitech/Dod relaunch them… and they sell truckloads at $99 thanks to this video…

Josh even says so in the video.

This is Josh showing you all how YouTube ‘influence’ is just marketing bollocks designed to shift units to the gullible.

Keefy · March 2023

Stevepage said:

I loved mine and was considering buying one again. But now prices have shot up because of that damn video. Unbelievable

You can buy mine for...

Image: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/81/c0/d2/81c0d2b8bdacdea3b0d0667b3e599710.png

mojofilters · March 2023

Cookiemonster said:

It’s a good pedal, not sure why but these days I feel Josh is just trying to wind people up these days. They would definitely have different settings that sound at least partially different to each other.

I think I agree with you about Josh Scott. I used to really enjoy him putting up something either common and inexpensive or just old and cheap, against fancier and/or pricier kit. I remember extreme examples like the original red plastic Pod vs the kit it was supposed to be modelling, amongst many others, where any notions of better or worse became purely subjective - the results were generally just different, though depending on what was involved, the differences would vary dramatically.

I generally found my most consistent takeaway from his comparisons was that a decent player, complemented by an able backing ensemble all with similarly good playing skills, decent gear and well engineered recordings, inevitably showed that simply changing one single part of a well constructed signal chain rarely detracts from the overall quality of the music.

Whilst I don't think anythings changed too much on the technical side, these days it feels like he's more interested in proving a point, as opposed to simply offering up what I generally find to be educational content.

That emphasis seemed notably evident when they did their big dramatic Kemper reveal. It was all so annoyingly theatrical, which I just found irritating. I'd have far more respect had he done a similar thing but in an extremely low key way, and deliberately avoided making such a big song and dance around it.

I just don't like it when they make something into a great big pantomime. The Bad Monkey episode would have been much more enjoyable without the silly costumes and piles of bananas, resembling some kind of half arsed attempt at theatrical stage design.

I've never used a Bad Monkey to the best of my knowledge, but it's weirdly managed to stick in my mind for many years now. I don't think the pedal ever registered with me until one of the guitar magazines (Guitar & Bass perhaps?) started offering some promotion, whereby if you paid upfront for a 6 or 12 month subscription, you'd recieve that pedal as a free gift.

It must be about a decade ago, maybe longer, but there was a period where I used to travel by train quite frequently for work. It was before all the trains had WiFi, so unless I had loads of offline work to catch up on, I'd grab a magazine or two from WH Smiths and submit the receipts on expenses. This was the only time I bought anything music related beyond Sound On Sound, but I remember this free pedal offer as it was around the same value as the subscription itself, so I was tempted each time I read whichever magazine had that offer.

I never actually got around to taking advantage, but that pedal stuck as not only did the magazine thing seem like a good offer, but in the pictures I could clearly see the "mixer out" output, and as a frequent user of mixers in particular and PA kit in general, that element was intriguing as I don't recall reading about that kind of feature in the pedal reviews found in those kinds of magazine.

I also didn't learn until much later that DOD / Digitech had a whole line with the same feature. I can't even recall ever seeing one of those pedals in person, so I'm guessing they weren't that common over here, though it's probably much easier to miss "mixer out" when looking at pedalboards from a distance.

I've occasionally looked around the usual places since I learned this feature was available on other pedals I'd be more interested in, but these days the prices of the heavier distortion types (ie what I might actually have use for) seem far too high for something I'm taking a random punt on, mostly out of sheer curiosity.

Nevertheless I'd still be interested to learn a bit more about the "mixer out" element of those circuits. I assume it's a relatively simple analogue low-pass filter, but since DOD and Digitech put out a lot of original and sometimes pioneering new pedal designs, before Harmon sold to Samsung and closed down the more niche parts of that business, I'm still inclined to suspect they could have done something both interesting and clever.

Whilst Josh Scott has no formal training in electrical engineering, he does seem good at explaining concepts he understands, communicating them in a way that doesn't necessarily dumb down the important technical elements. I wish he'd focus his YouTube efforts on that kind of content, instead of pulling these overwrought theatrical stunts...though I also appreciate I'm not necessarily representative of his typical audience!

I wish him well with his business and hope he keeps making interesting new kit, as opposed to rehashing the same old fuzz circuits, as lots of other pedal builders also do. I don't own any JHS stuff, but I'm tempted by his Pack Rat and Muffaletta, plus back when it was less common I liked the tap tempos he added to time-based and modulation effects...I simply couldn't justify the price.

To his credit he has acknowledged that commercial concerns have focused his attention away from innovation, though that hasn't stopped certain other pedal manufacturers from fervently ploughing their own furrow, as opposed to satiating the market for old tech in shiny new packaging. But in terms of his YouTube output, I really wish he'd drop the amateur dramatics and concentrate on wholesome, interesting and educational content.

Petepassion · March 2023

Horses for course’s, I actually like the theatrical madness he employs, it’s a breath of fresh air compared to so many other channels. I think he is just being true to himself and this goes a long way(in my book anyway), I find it more engaging and entertaining… plus you sometimes learn a bit too…but then I do have a lot to learn

mattdavis · March 2023

Wow - we guitarists are an odd bunch. For 15 years it’s sold for peanuts (I’m sure I bought one for about £25) and in all that time people don’t discover for themselves that it sounds amazing - then one video comes out and suddenly it’s the greatest thing since the Klon centaur.

Why as a tribe are so many of us such suckers for marketing (and I fully include myself in this)?

ThePrettyDamned · March 2023

Really like the bad monkey, it was my first overdrive. Sold it on when I "upgraded" - but daft really. I now use a pair of Nady overdrive pedals. One is some sort of tubescreamer that does a much more distorted, fuzzy thing and the other is god knows what, and the Internet hasn't taken it apart yet because its a nady pedal and no one cares.

Cost me a tenner and sounds great!

Stevepage · March 2023

You do have to wonder what kind of person is paying way over £100 for one, when they were going for £45 last week.

Hey, my Arion Metal Master sounds JUST like the Boss HM-2 waza craft pedal. Now buy it for 100 quid and save your self sooo much money

Musicman20 · March 2023

mojofilters said:

Cookiemonster said:

It’s a good pedal, not sure why but these days I feel Josh is just trying to wind people up these days. They would definitely have different settings that sound at least partially different to each other.

I think I agree with you about Josh Scott. I used to really enjoy him putting up something either common and inexpensive or just old and cheap, against fancier and/or pricier kit. I remember extreme examples like the original red plastic Pod vs the kit it was supposed to be modelling, amongst many others, where any notions of better or worse became purely subjective - the results were generally just different, though depending on what was involved, the differences would vary dramatically.

I generally found my most consistent takeaway from his comparisons was that a decent player, complemented by an able backing ensemble all with similarly good playing skills, decent gear and well engineered recordings, inevitably showed that simply changing one single part of a well constructed signal chain rarely detracts from the overall quality of the music.

Whilst I don't think anythings changed too much on the technical side, these days it feels like he's more interested in proving a point, as opposed to simply offering up what I generally find to be educational content.

That emphasis seemed notably evident when they did their big dramatic Kemper reveal. It was all so annoyingly theatrical, which I just found irritating. I'd have far more respect had he done a similar thing but in an extremely low key way, and deliberately avoided making such a big song and dance around it.

I just don't like it when they make something into a great big pantomime. The Bad Monkey episode would have been much more enjoyable without the silly costumes and piles of bananas, resembling some kind of half arsed attempt at theatrical stage design.

I've never used a Bad Monkey to the best of my knowledge, but it's weirdly managed to stick in my mind for many years now. I don't think the pedal ever registered with me until one of the guitar magazines (Guitar & Bass perhaps?) started offering some promotion, whereby if you paid upfront for a 6 or 12 month subscription, you'd recieve that pedal as a free gift.

It must be about a decade ago, maybe longer, but there was a period where I used to travel by train quite frequently for work. It was before all the trains had WiFi, so unless I had loads of offline work to catch up on, I'd grab a magazine or two from WH Smiths and submit the receipts on expenses. This was the only time I bought anything music related beyond Sound On Sound, but I remember this free pedal offer as it was around the same value as the subscription itself, so I was tempted each time I read whichever magazine had that offer.

I never actually got around to taking advantage, but that pedal stuck as not only did the magazine thing seem like a good offer, but in the pictures I could clearly see the "mixer out" output, and as a frequent user of mixers in particular and PA kit in general, that element was intriguing as I don't recall reading about that kind of feature in the pedal reviews found in those kinds of magazine.

I also didn't learn until much later that DOD / Digitech had a whole line with the same feature. I can't even recall ever seeing one of those pedals in person, so I'm guessing they weren't that common over here, though it's probably much easier to miss "mixer out" when looking at pedalboards from a distance.

I've occasionally looked around the usual places since I learned this feature was available on other pedals I'd be more interested in, but these days the prices of the heavier distortion types (ie what I might actually have use for) seem far too high for something I'm taking a random punt on, mostly out of sheer curiosity.

Nevertheless I'd still be interested to learn a bit more about the "mixer out" element of those circuits. I assume it's a relatively simple analogue low-pass filter, but since DOD and Digitech put out a lot of original and sometimes pioneering new pedal designs, before Harmon sold to Samsung and closed down the more niche parts of that business, I'm still inclined to suspect they could have done something both interesting and clever.

Whilst Josh Scott has no formal training in electrical engineering, he does seem good at explaining concepts he understands, communicating them in a way that doesn't necessarily dumb down the important technical elements. I wish he'd focus his YouTube efforts on that kind of content, instead of pulling these overwrought theatrical stunts...though I also appreciate I'm not necessarily representative of his typical audience!

I wish him well with his business and hope he keeps making interesting new kit, as opposed to rehashing the same old fuzz circuits, as lots of other pedal builders also do. I don't own any JHS stuff, but I'm tempted by his Pack Rat and Muffaletta, plus back when it was less common I liked the tap tempos he added to time-based and modulation effects...I simply couldn't justify the price.

To his credit he has acknowledged that commercial concerns have focused his attention away from innovation, though that hasn't stopped certain other pedal manufacturers from fervently ploughing their own furrow, as opposed to satiating the market for old tech in shiny new packaging. But in terms of his YouTube output, I really wish he'd drop the amateur dramatics and concentrate on wholesome, interesting and educational content.

I'm in agreement with this, but I am far more cynical about JHS and marketing. The whole thing is pure marketing. Every video has an aspect of 'I am your friend and we are on the same level' that creeps me out. These videos create hype/drama that in turn brings in viewers/forum posts and focus on JHS.

Originally I quite enjoyed some of the videos but now they just want a reaction. They are also attempting that certain humour which is a little dated in the UK now...there is also this air of pretence/we are so hipster about JHS. I mean you can't really be as you aren't a little boutique company doing extremely innovative pedals.

This whole 'I am going to be a pedal historian'...I mean there are thousands of people that know just as much. It's just basic knowledge.

Just seems a bit...bizarre.

Reverend · March 2023

Stevepage said:

You do have to wonder what kind of person is paying way over £100 for one, when they were going for £45 last week.

Hey, my Arion Metal Master sounds JUST like the Boss HM-2 waza craft pedal. Now buy it for 100 quid and save your self sooo much money

I actually want a metal master pedal. They are thee sound of a very specific sub-genre. the HM2 (plus a ds1) is the swedish sound but the metal master is the sound of underground English death metal at teha start of the 90s.

Maybe whhn people discover Jus Oborne used one before he gtt the FZ2 they will go up in price.

RaymondLin · March 2023

We humans are fools aren't we?

1 video and now it's trending and people cashing in.

roberty · March 2023

Maybe they're greasing the wheels for a reissue of some kind from Digitech

stonevibe · March 2023

I would also say a LOT of guitarists do not know how to use pedals to achieve certain tones and so they buy a 'classic pedal' and make it sound awful.

The Bad Monkey is a decent pedal and can do some great tones. People love aspiring to more expensive gear though and so buy with their hearts rather than using their ears.

I did an article on my blog about how to dial in some classic pedals last year and it shows the basics of getting some useable tones from 5 pretty standard overdrive/distortion pedals.

Musicman20 · March 2023

roberty said:

Maybe they're greasing the wheels for a reissue of some kind from Digitech

Probably. Wouldn't be surprised if money changed hands between Digitech and JHS to get the hype train going.

jonnyburgo · March 2023

One bid up to £180 here

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285186433502?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=1Xf-4fbvSTm&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=vxjE9toHSAq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

JD50 · March 2023

jonnyburgo said:

One bid up to £180 here
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285186433502?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=1Xf-4fbvSTm&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=vxjE9toHSAq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Hmmm tempted to stick mine on eBay while the hype heats up.... Also have an original Drivemaster and a DF7... could prolly make a tidy sum this week.

bertie · March 2023

https://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/244446/how-much#latest ;

impmann · March 2023

Of course Digitech are going to reissue it... why else would they choose this Overdrive pedal over all the other also-ran cheap ones on the market? Plus Josh has a bit of a connection to DOD/Digitech and its a great way of drumming up demand for it.

You watch... two to four weeks and it'll be announced at $99.

roberty · March 2023

Musicman20 said:

roberty said:

Maybe they're greasing the wheels for a reissue of some kind from Digitech

Probably. Wouldn't be surprised if money changed hands between Digitech and JHS to get the hype train going.

But Josh is our friend : (

mojofilters · March 2023

impmann said:

Of course Digitech are going to reissue it... why else would they choose this Overdrive pedal over all the other also-ran cheap ones on the market? Plus Josh has a bit of a connection to DOD/Digitech and its a great way of drumming up demand for it.

You watch... two to four weeks and it'll be announced at $99.

If Josh Scott is such a cynical marketing genius, why would he want to elevate direct competitors to his own rather neat 3 Series line of $99 pedals?

It seems likely that the popular DOD / Digitech models the new owners will want to put out first are all going to retail for something close to the $100 price point, so I don't really see how it would be in the interest of JHS to publicise such a direct competitor.

I'm certainly not cynical enough to imagine that somehow money changed hands. That will happen just before the new owners launch their first new pedals, and will go to the usual rogues gallery of YouTubers who earn their living that way.

EricTheWeary · March 2023

stonevibe said:

I would also say a LOT of guitarists do not know how to use pedals to achieve certain tones and so they buy a 'classic pedal' and make it sound awful.

Probably me included. I remember my first encounter with a Boss Blues Driver being used by the guitarist in a band we shared the bill with and it was the most horrendous racket (they were playing ska and reggae so avant garde noise probably wasn’t what he was really going for). So I thought it was an awful sounding pedal. Couple of years later the band I was in had a dep second guitarist and he had one on his board and I thought uh oh but it sounded absolutely sweet as a nut. Different gear chains/ user error.

stickyfiddle · March 2023

roberty said:

Musicman20 said:

roberty said:

Maybe they're greasing the wheels for a reissue of some kind from Digitech

Probably. Wouldn't be surprised if money changed hands between Digitech and JHS to get the hype train going.

But Josh is our friend : (

He's also Tom Cram's friend!!

roberty · March 2023

stickyfiddle said:

roberty said:

Musicman20 said:

roberty said:

Maybe they're greasing the wheels for a reissue of some kind from Digitech

Probably. Wouldn't be surprised if money changed hands between Digitech and JHS to get the hype train going.

But Josh is our friend : (

He's also Tom Cram's friend!!

Tom is my Facebook friend

Musicman20 · March 2023

mojofilters said:

impmann said:

Of course Digitech are going to reissue it... why else would they choose this Overdrive pedal over all the other also-ran cheap ones on the market? Plus Josh has a bit of a connection to DOD/Digitech and its a great way of drumming up demand for it.

You watch... two to four weeks and it'll be announced at $99.

If Josh Scott is such a cynical marketing genius, why would he want to elevate direct competitors to his own rather neat 3 Series line of $99 pedals?

It seems likely that the popular DOD / Digitech models the new owners will want to put out first are all going to retail for something close to the $100 price point, so I don't really see how it would be in the interest of JHS to publicise such a direct competitor.

I'm certainly not cynical enough to imagine that somehow money changed hands. That will happen just before the new owners launch their first new pedals, and will go to the usual rogues gallery of YouTubers who earn their living that way.

Clicks/subscribers/posts on forums etc all drive marketing towards JHS, no matter WHAT they are showing on Youtube. All good/bad/dramatic press is press.

They use Youtube to advertise themselves and Youtube in itself is another revenue stream. Why do you think they ramped up the content? Makes money. Add merch, merch makes money.

Working alongside other manufacturers makes money, for both manufacturers.

If there isn't money exchanging hands, or some form of favour the other way, I'd be extremely suprised.

roberty · March 2023

mojofilters said:

impmann said:

Of course Digitech are going to reissue it... why else would they choose this Overdrive pedal over all the other also-ran cheap ones on the market? Plus Josh has a bit of a connection to DOD/Digitech and its a great way of drumming up demand for it.

You watch... two to four weeks and it'll be announced at $99.

If Josh Scott is such a cynical marketing genius, why would he want to elevate direct competitors to his own rather neat 3 Series line of $99 pedals?

It seems likely that the popular DOD / Digitech models the new owners will want to put out first are all going to retail for something close to the $100 price point, so I don't really see how it would be in the interest of JHS to publicise such a direct competitor.

I'm certainly not cynical enough to imagine that somehow money changed hands. That will happen just before the new owners launch their first new pedals, and will go to the usual rogues gallery of YouTubers who earn their living that way.

He is affiliated with Sweetwater, I expect there is some incentive to shill competitors

roberty · March 2023

Not there's necessarily anything wrong with this. I wouldn't expect anyone on this earth to work for free

ennspek · March 2023

I have one somewhere. No idea where though. I think it came with a subscription to a guitar magazine as a free gift.

Habanero · March 2023

If I were a cynic I might think that JHS are going to do a deep dive video of the subtle differences of various versions and then issue something like their Bonsai.

impmann · March 2023

Habanero said:

If I were a cynic I might think that JHS are going to do a deep dive video of the subtle differences of various versions and then issue something like their Bonsai.

And each setting would sound the same... ;-)

Y'see, the video shows us that once the bass and the drums start up, any nuances, along with any differences in "character" or "feel" go flying out the window in a shower of mojo dust...

Habanero · March 2023

impmann said:

Habanero said:

If I were a cynic I might think that JHS are going to do a deep dive video of the subtle differences of various versions and then issue something like their Bonsai.

And each setting would sound the same... ;-)

Y'see, the video shows us that once the bass and the drums start up, any nuances, along with any differences in "character" or "feel" go flying out the window in a shower of mojo dust...

Especially as some of the variants would probably only be the font used on the Bad Monkey logo.

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Bad Monkey - Still loved?

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