Kind of philosophical question about making music.

LastMantra · March 2023

OK, let's imagine that you wrote, learned to play and recorded the "perfect" tune.

Could you be happy to just destroy the recording and never play it again or let anyone hear it, knowing that you, and, if you believe, God, have heard it, or do you think it wouldn't be complete until you let other people hear it?

I suppose it's a bit of a twist on the tree falling with no-one around thing.

Sporky · March 2023

It'd seem mean not to let other people hear it if it's that good.

CoffeeAndTV · March 2023

A lot of the time, in fact all the time, the reason I write is to stop my own tune being an ear worm for myself.

I’ve a load of tunes that I’ve written that maybe I should record and put out, but it’s the time and effort verses who actually gives a shit and wants to hear it.

LastMantra · March 2023

Sporky said:

It'd seem mean not to let other people hear it if it's that good.

That's a nice way of looking at it. Especially if it spread a bit of happiness and brought people together.

Sporky · March 2023

Though, rethinking, what if it was genuinely, unarguably "perfect"?

Would everyone else stop writing and recording, knowing without doubt that they'd never reach that pinnacle?

Roland · March 2023

Surely “perfect” is a relevant term? Bach may have written a fugue which was perfect by 18th century criteria.

Habanero · March 2023

Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Ask on this forum 'what is the best track by' some artist and you'll normally get several different answers. Let other people hear your 'perfect tune', and someone will say it's rubbish.

LastMantra · March 2023

CoffeeAndTV said:

A lot of the time, in fact all the time, the reason I write is to stop my own tune being an ear worm for myself.

I’ve a load of tunes that I’ve written that maybe I should record and put out, but it’s the time and effort verses who actually gives a shit and wants to hear it.

That's kind of what I'm like.

I can be jamming away myself and come up with a riff or lick or melody or whatever. Play it until I get it sounding about as good as I can, then just forget about it and next time play something different.

Maybe I'm just lazy. I did get into recording for a while some years ago and really enjoyed the experience of learning how to do it. Not that I ever got very good at recording and mixing but it was fun at the time. There was a group of people on the MR forum that got quite friendly and I started collaborating with a few of them.
A lot of it ended up on soundcloud, but there seemed to be quite a lot of people on there that were pretty transparently more interested in getting followers than anything else, which I couldn't be bothered with.

LastMantra · March 2023

To be clear it was very much a hypothetical idea

It started out as a painting, I just changed it to guitar tune for here. It could be any artist endeavour.

LastMantra · March 2023

Sporky said:

Though, rethinking, what if it was genuinely, unarguably "perfect"?

Would everyone else stop writing and recording, knowing without doubt that they'd never reach that pinnacle?

Hmm, I hadn't thought about it like that.
Maybe that would be a reason for keeping it to yourself?

The question then might be COULD you?

digitalkettle · March 2023

LastMantra said:

OK, let's imagine that you wrote, learned to play and recorded the "perfect" tune.

Could you be happy to just destroy the recording and never play it again or let anyone hear it, knowing that you, and, if you believe, God, have heard it, or do you think it wouldn't be complete until you let other people hear it?

I suppose it's a bit of a twist on the tree falling with no-one around thing.

Got tabz?

Sporky · March 2023

LastMantra said:

Sporky said:

Though, rethinking, what if it was genuinely, unarguably "perfect"?

Would everyone else stop writing and recording, knowing without doubt that they'd never reach that pinnacle?

Hmm, I hadn't thought about it like that.
Maybe that would be a reason for keeping it to yourself?

The question then might be COULD you?

Maybe. But you'd have won at music.

It does require a very literal and pretty much nonsensical interpretation of the original post though.

LastMantra · March 2023

Sporky said:

LastMantra said:

Sporky said:

Though, rethinking, what if it was genuinely, unarguably "perfect"?

Would everyone else stop writing and recording, knowing without doubt that they'd never reach that pinnacle?

Hmm, I hadn't thought about it like that.
Maybe that would be a reason for keeping it to yourself?

The question then might be COULD you?

Maybe. But you'd have won at music.

It does require a very literal and pretty much nonsensical interpretation of the original post though.

I guess that's what it comes down to.

That's OK it was pretty nonsensical to begin with

LastMantra · March 2023

digitalkettle said:

LastMantra said:

OK, let's imagine that you wrote, learned to play and recorded the "perfect" tune.

Could you be happy to just destroy the recording and never play it again or let anyone hear it, knowing that you, and, if you believe, God, have heard it, or do you think it wouldn't be complete until you let other people hear it?

I suppose it's a bit of a twist on the tree falling with no-one around thing.

Got tabz?

Nope, sorry, I'm afraid you've lost me there

Supportact · March 2023

LastMantra said:

OK, let's imagine that you wrote, learned to play and recorded the "perfect" tune.

Could you be happy to just destroy the recording and never play it again or let anyone hear it, knowing that you, and, if you believe, God, have heard it, or do you think it wouldn't be complete until you let other people hear it?

I suppose it's a bit of a twist on the tree falling with no-one around thing.

Probably do what i do with all the other music i write: Think it's the best thing I've ever done, then release it to pretty much universal indifference, then move on to the next thing.

TTony · March 2023

Sporky said:

It'd seem mean not to let other people hear it if it's that good.

That would make me “mean”.

(Fair enough).

Kilgore · March 2023

LastMantra said:

OK, let's imagine that you wrote, learned to play and recorded the "perfect" tune.

Could you be happy to just destroy the recording and never play it again or let anyone hear it, knowing that you, and, if you believe, God, have heard it, or do you think it wouldn't be complete until you let other people hear it?

I suppose it's a bit of a twist on the tree falling with no-one around thing.

If God exists then it wouldn't be possible to compose the perfect tune as God, the perfect being, could invariably compose a better one. Rendering your own less than perfect.

Although God would probably have get the devil to play the solo.

Petepassion · March 2023

Sporky said:

Though, rethinking, what if it was genuinely, unarguably "perfect"?

Would everyone else stop writing and recording, knowing without doubt that they'd never reach that pinnacle?

I know there are countless better songwriters than me, but makes no difference as I enjoy the process and release

Petepassion · March 2023

The main reason I write is for self expression and the buzz I get when it comes out well. But I also seek appraisal sometimes, it boosts the ego and makes you feel good. Little better than a belter of a gig and everyone coming up to you afterwards singing your praises. Yet I've also written songs I think are really good, but played to hardly anyone

flying_pie · March 2023

Consider that most human abilities have normal (Gaussian) distribution within the population - 2 standard deviations in either direction from the mean with 5% outlying. Assuming musical appreciation follows the same pattern then that means that most people would be unable to truly appreciate the extremes of music and prefer popular (aka averae) music - we're looking at all you Coldplay and Killers fans. It also means 2.5% have an utterly abysmal taste in music and 2.5% have excellent taste, however everyone will disagree so one person's abysmal is another's genius. Cultural differences, or preferences for specific genres will complicate it further but for simplicity let's ignore that.

It's almost certain that if you wrote the perfect tune will then it would be utter shite to 97.5% of the population.

And if you try to blend elements of all music and preferences into a "perfect" single track to speak to all then you end up diluting the best parts of each and just end up with utter rubbish (although the 2.5% who love shit music night go for it).

In the same way there could never be a perfect porn film there can never be a perfect song. Which is a shame because I just wrote it before destroying it due to an existential crisis

Sporky · March 2023

Flying pie's excellent post has reminded me of the old truism; everyone has appalling taste in music, including me. If everyone remembered that, the world would be a better place. Or at least a bit quieter.

Supportact · March 2023

flying_pie said:

It's almost certain that if you wrote the perfect tune will then it would be utter shite to 97.5% of the population.

Explains a lot about my band's sales figures.

jasonbone75 · March 2023

it's a moot point because perfection cannot exist. it evolves and morphs and stays constantly out of reach in all endeavours and thoughts and feelings and things. anyone who says something is perfect is either lying, deluded or doesn't know what perfection means. and you can't say "it's perfect in my opinion" because the very definition excludes any influence of opinion in place of absolutes.

humans are doomed.

Bezzer · March 2023

flying_pie said:
In the same way there could never be a perfect porn film …

There can, there is, I was in it. Sadly it was before the internet so lost to time

flying_pie · March 2023

Bezzer said:

flying_pie said:
In the same way there could never be a perfect porn film …

There can, there is, I was in it. Sadly it was before the internet so lost to time

@Bezzer does Bristol...

thecolourbox · March 2023

I think of think the feedback of peers is what elevates a piece of music from merely "artisticly sound" towards "artistic perfection". I think the process of releasing a song, giving up ownership of it almost, allowing it to be passed around the public consciousness and seeing where it lands is part of what makes the song brilliant.

That all said, I don't release most of the stuff I write because people are mean and it makes me feel like shit to have my optimism dashed

digitalscream · March 2023

Sporky said:

Though, rethinking, what if it was genuinely, unarguably "perfect"?

Would everyone else stop writing and recording, knowing without doubt that they'd never reach that pinnacle?

With any luck, yes. There's so much dross being produced on a daily basis that it would, arguably, be a service to humanity if that could just stop.

LastMantra · March 2023

thecolourbox said:

I think of think the feedback of peers is what elevates a piece of music from merely "artisticly sound" towards "artistic perfection". I think the process of releasing a song, giving up ownership of it almost, allowing it to be passed around the public consciousness and seeing where it lands is part of what makes the song brilliant.

I like that.

monquixote · March 2023

Taking a slightly different angle

I feel that music is a kind of language and the place that music happens is in the brain of the listener.
Of course it's fine to talk to yourself, but it's not the same as a conversation or a speech.

If Paul McCartney had forgotten the dream where he dreamed the melody to Yesterday or Dickens had burned the manuscript of Great Expectations it wouldn't be the thing that it is because the importance and brilliance of the emotions that it created in people's minds or the cultural legacy and works that it inspired.

To put it another way if random quantum fluctuations cause a vibration which is the most perfect melody that could exist (Statistically that which would cause the most delight if played to the world's population if you need a pedants definition) and no one heard it would it have any value at all. I would suggest not.

Blueingreen · March 2023

LastMantra said:

OK, let's imagine that you wrote, learned to play and recorded the "perfect" tune.

Could you be happy to just destroy the recording and never play it again or let anyone hear it, knowing that you, and, if you believe, God, have heard it, or do you think it wouldn't be complete until you let other people hear it?

I suppose it's a bit of a twist on the tree falling with no-one around thing.

I suppose it all depends on your beliefs. Neoplatonists would argue that the world we normally experience is not reality, but an inferior copy of it; but that you can experience reality by creating or contemplating a perfect work of art. At that point you would become part of the One, and lose the illusion that reality is made up of separate individuals. There would be need to let other people hear it because you have transcended the illusion of other people. Some Eastern religions and philosophies have similar beliefs.

But not everyone agrees.

hollywoodrox · March 2023

The notion that it’s the perfect tune is subjective if only you have heard it
For it to be perfect surely it has to be widely regarded , not just a chart hit either which is no measure of a perfect tune ( Joe dolce music theatre - shaddupya face ) but for it to be widely regarded by the public & people considered to be of good judgemental character over a wide range of genres. Eg on here people may not like a tune but will admit it is a great example of music & deserving of the award.

also some people regard music/tunes to have been given to us as a gift & surely not to share it would be not in accordance with the natural order of things

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Kind of philosophical question about making music.

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