Soundport question

Shadow · February 2023

I've got a hankering for a nylon strung crossover with a 45mm nut so I was pleased to see a Furch come up on eBay. The owner has seen fit to add a soundport which to me looks enormous. I recall a discussion either here or on another forum which said that too large a port was detrimental to the sound. Does anyone here with knowledge of these things (or not!) have an opinion on this one:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255973907447?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=RwyCO-LORxm&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=iPxytCtRSGe&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

TheMadMick · February 2023

I don't know about the sound port but it would concern me that there seems to be no reinforcement around the port. However if it was of concern you might like to ask a luthier how much to repair and then negotiate with the vendor.

ICBM · February 2023

That's about the normal size for one, but I agree with TheMadMick that there appears to be no reinforcement, unless there's a ring on the inside set back from the edge which you can't see.

Also slightly worrying that there appears to be no mention in the listing that it's not original. I know it's obvious there is one from the pictures, but it strikes me as deceptive that a major modification like that is not explicitly mentioned.

ToneControl · February 2023

I think that hole is too big
I have several guitars featuring a sound port

One of them is a classical, and it's a little too large, sounds a bit boomy, but the maker provides an insert to reduce the surface area of the port

Image: https://goyetteguitarcenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/koacedar1-400x533.jpg

I tried a small Turnstone acoustic with a large hole, which sounded to bassy to me:
https://www.turnstoneguitar.co.uk/models

After doing some research, I found that the most convincing advice for an aftermarket port was to add an oval shaped hole about 3.5cm x 5cm. I've had this done to a few steel string acoustics, and it sounds great. The luthier took care to avoid cutting through any internal structural elements.

malcolmkindness · February 2023

I agree, that soundport looks very large, perhaps that's why it's for sale? On another note, have you ever played a nylon string guitar with a 45mm nut? It seems very narrow to me.

ToneControl · February 2023

malcolmkindness said:

I agree, that soundport looks very large, perhaps that's why it's for sale? On another note, have you ever played a nylon string guitar with a 45mm nut? It seems very narrow to me.

I tried a narrower nut nylon like this, found it very hard to play

Shadow · February 2023

Thanks for the responses. I think I'll stay well away from this one.

I've got a nylon with a 48mm nut which I'm ok with but I'd prefer it to be narrower. What are the playability issues with a narrow nut for nylon?

ToneControl · February 2023

Shadow said:

Thanks for the responses. I think I'll stay well away from this one.

I've got a nylon with a 48mm nut which I'm ok with but I'd prefer it to be narrower. What are the playability issues with a narrow nut for nylon?

it might suit you, I like full 2 inch nuts on classical guitars. I think the strings vibrate more widely, might be easier to play a narrow nut one if you are using a plectrum??

Shadow · February 2023

ToneControl said:

Shadow said:

Thanks for the responses. I think I'll stay well away from this one.

I've got a nylon with a 48mm nut which I'm ok with but I'd prefer it to be narrower. What are the playability issues with a narrow nut for nylon?

it might suit you, I like full 2 inch nuts on classical guitars. I think the strings vibrate more widely, might be easier to play a narrow nut one if you are using a plectrum??

Exclusively fingerstyle. I'd love to try one but it's the age old story, none that I can find anywhere near me.

Mellish · February 2023

@Shadow ; exactly the issue I have.

If I want to try anything £1000+, say, I have to take a two-hour road trip just to get to a good guitar store.

JonnyBgoode · February 2023

Shadow said:

Thanks for the responses. I think I'll stay well away from this one.

I've got a nylon with a 48mm nut which I'm ok with but I'd prefer it to be narrower. What are the playability issues with a narrow nut for nylon?

Nylon = fatter strings, so as you start approaching steel strung nut widths you will run out of finger room and things will get very cramped, especially for slurs at that end of the neck.

Soupman · February 2023

Beats me why anyone would butcher a lovely looking instrument such as that Furch, then attempt to sell it on after leaving it in a state only for Steptoe & Son .

PCT57 · February 2023

I would suggest that the size of sound hole and the sound it produces will depend on the guitar and that you can't say whether or not the size is right unless you hear it. I have a sound hole on my Brook Lyn but I prefer it blocked off. The guys and Brook sorted it for me.

Shadow · February 2023

JonnyBgoode said:

Shadow said:

Thanks for the responses. I think I'll stay well away from this one.

I've got a nylon with a 48mm nut which I'm ok with but I'd prefer it to be narrower. What are the playability issues with a narrow nut for nylon?

Nylon = fatter strings, so as you start approaching steel strung nut widths you will run out of finger room and things will get very cramped, especially for slurs at that end of the neck.

I've got fairly slim fingers so it might work for me. Just need to find one to try!

Shadow · February 2023

Soupman said:

Beats me why anyone would butcher a lovely looking instrument such as that Furch, then attempt to sell it on after leaving it in a state only for Steptoe & Son .

I did a double-take when I saw the photos, and as someone said earlier, why would such a major change not be mentioned in the listing?!

Shadow · February 2023

PCT57 said:

I would suggest that the size of sound hole and the sound it produces will depend on the guitar and that you can't say whether or not the size is right unless you hear it. I have a sound hole on my Brook Lyn but I prefer it blocked off. The guys and Brook sorted it for me.

Presumably the design of a guitar factors in the presence of a port, not so when you just cut a hole in the side.

ICBM · February 2023

Shadow said:

why would such a major change not be mentioned in the listing?!

In the hope that a buyer doesn't realise it's a modification.

GTC · February 2023

Re the guitar itself - I had one of these in left-handed form and found it a lovely instrument. Well-made and balanced tone. The 45mm nut didn't really bother me although I usually play normal classicals.

The sound port does look a bit big but could be tastefully blocked off (at a cost). Have you asked the seller about it?

Shadow · February 2023

I asked this:

Thanks for getting back to me. To be honest, I was surprised that such a major enchantment wasn't mentioned in the listing. Can I ask why you added it and what difference it made to the sound?

And got this response:

I thought I did. I will put it in. It doesn't change the sound. When you are playing acoustic it makes it a little louder for the player.

Seems unlikely he forgot to mention it. One to avoid I think. Shame, seems a decent price with the Lyric pickup and Hiscox case.

ToneControl · February 2023

ask him who put the port in

Personally I'd prefer one with a port

jaymenon · February 2023

The last time I looked at buying something expensive on eBay I contacted eBay customer service who allowed me to contact the buyer with a view to my trying the instrument out personally.

Take someone with you who is knowledgeable about acoustic guitars, who can verify the structural integrity of the instrument. After that, play it and see…

jaymenon · February 2023

On another note, companies like Taylor (and I would imagine Furch) - Who make great steel string instruments - don’t have the expertise that “proper“ classical guitar manufacturers have.

I found that out when I visited the classical guitar Centre in Birmingham, some of the “proper“ classical guitars were way better than I expected them to be as compared to an old Taylor 7-series nylon string that I used to have.

sure, the 2” nut felt weird, but all it takes is a few minutes playing on it and very quickly you’ll get used to it…

ICBM · February 2023

After a lifetime of thinking I couldn’t play classical guitars because the necks are too wide for my little hands, I unexpectedly found one I could. The neck is no narrower than normal, but the profile is very different - it’s a shallow ‘dish’ with much less wood on the shoulders than normal, not at all a V but unusually skinny without actually being thinner front to back, if that makes sense.

I’ve also found a steel-string with a neck width I wouldn’t normally like which is very comfortable for the same reason - it’s such a shallow dish that you can clearly see both sides of the fingerboard when you look at it from the back, the widest point is the edges of the fingerboard. I would never have expected this to be more comfortable than a traditional rounded/rolled profile until I actually tried it.

TLDR - the profile is more important than the width.

Mellish · February 2023

@ICBM ; from all that you've said there, try a pre 2018 Martin D-35/HD-35 if you see one.

ICBM · February 2023

Mellish said:

@ICBM ; from all that you've said there, try a pre 2018 Martin D-35/HD-35 if you see one.

Is it a V shape? There’s a Martin D-18GE with a hard V neck in the shop, and I find it almost unplayable. Which is a pity, since it sounds very good.

Mellish · February 2023

@ICBM ; no mate, the pre 2018 Martin D-35 neck is a shallow low profile.

After 2018, soft V, which I doubt you'd like.

ICBM · February 2023

Mellish said:

@ICBM ; no mate, the pre 2018 Martin D-35 neck is a shallow low profile.

Interesting…………

I have a 1971 D12-35 already!

GTC · February 2023

jaymenon said:

On another note, companies like Taylor (and I would imagine Furch) - Who make great steel string instruments - don’t have the expertise that “proper“ classical guitar manufacturers have.

I found that out when I visited the classical guitar Centre in Birmingham, some of the “proper“ classical guitars were way better than I expected them to be as compared to an old Taylor 7-series nylon string that I used to have.

sure, the 2” nut felt weird, but all it takes is a few minutes playing on it and very quickly you’ll get used to it…

I generally agree with the point that predominately steel-strung manufacturers make disappointing nylon-strung instruments. However, having played one, I think the Furch is an exception to the rule.

It should also be pointed out that crossover guitars (including the Furch) generally have a radiused fretboard whereas classicals have a flat fretboard. This makes a big difference to the feel when playing.

I've got small hands / fingers and have never found any difficulty with full-size classicals - in fact, the wider fretboard helps avoid fingers accidently muting the the upper strings in some positions due to them being further apart. Neck profile can also help - but I've found that a slim profile doesn't always mean easier playing. More important to me is general technique and playing position.

Having said all that, the Furch is a very very good guitar if that is the sort of thing you are after - the best example that I've come across. The listing price seems very good, particularly when you consider the Hiscox case and pickup - even if some later luthier soundport work is needed.

tomjax · February 2023

Shadow said:

I asked this:

Thanks for getting back to me. To be honest, I was surprised that such a major enchantment wasn't mentioned in the listing. Can I ask why you added it and what difference it made to the sound?

And got this response:

I thought I did. I will put it in. It doesn't change the sound. When you are playing acoustic it makes it a little louder for the player.

Seems unlikely he forgot to mention it. One to avoid I think. Shame, seems a decent price with the Lyric pickup and Hiscox case.

He doesn't seem to have updated the listing to mention the soundport yet, so I agree with you, maybe not all he seems.

p90fool · February 2023

Shadow said:

I've got a hankering for a nylon strung crossover with a 45mm nut so I was pleased to see a Furch come up on eBay. The owner has seen fit to add a soundport which to me looks enormous. I recall a discussion either here or on another forum which said that too large a port was detrimental to the sound.

Everyone knows that the optimum size for a soundport is whatever size the broken active preamp you removed from it was.

GTC · February 2023

Regardless of whether or not he has updated the listing, if you are interested why not just ask him through a "Contact Seller" message the exact size of the soundport and who fitted it. That way, if you were to go ahead you would be covered. The seller's eBay activity isn't particularly frequent but it is 100% positive.

Looking at the photo, it may actually be smaller than it appears due to close-up lens distortion.

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