Can an acoustic be quiet and sound good?

Sporky · February 2023

Mostly just an idle question, but can an acoustic sound full and balanced without being loud?

Grampa · February 2023

Taylor GS Mini? I can happily sit in the music room strumming away without disturbing Grandma who's watching TV in the living room across the hall....She does have the telly bloody loud these days mind you, hearing not what it was!

ICBM · February 2023

Sporky said:

Mostly just an idle question, but can an acoustic sound full and balanced without being loud?

Yes. You play it quietly

.

Tannin · February 2023

Yes, absolutely @Sporky. ;;

The myth that an acoustic guitar must produce a lot of volume otherwise it can't be tone-rich and rewarding and responsive is pervasive, pernicious and plain wrong. .

But where did it come from and why do so many people still believe it?

First we can go back to the old classical tradition where a single guitarist has to fill an entire hall unamplified. Within that tradition, a quiet guitar is about as much use as a shoe with a hole in it. That form of performance hasn't entirely disappeared and probably never will, but it is long gone as a mainstream thing.

Second, we can look at the American bluegrass ensemble tradition where amplification is either not done at all or consists of a single microphone shared between a group of players with individuals stepping forward one at a time to take solos. In this sort of environment, being able to produce a lot of volume is paramount, particularly if you want to be able to include some light and shade in your playing and not just spend the day overplaying just to be heard against the other instruments.

So there are two situations where a guitar has to be loud. Doubtless there are others. In the vast majority of situations, however, within reason acoustic volume is a bit of a non-issue. Unfortunately, a lot of players haven't got the memo; they are still stuck in the 1890s when amplification wasn't a thing and acoustic volume really did matter. These days our electric-playing friends realise that they don't need a Marshal Stack cranked up to 11 to get good tone, we have a similar lesson to learn over here on the acoustic side.

TLDR: Yes.

thermionic · February 2023

Grampa said:

Taylor GS Mini? I can happily sit in the music room strumming away without disturbing Grandma who's watching TV in the living room across the hall....She does have the telly bloody loud these days mind you, hearing not what it was!

I’ve just been bashing away Neil Young style on my GS Mini and it’s not quiet! It can be played softly as well of course, and sounds great at all volumes.

I should do a side by side comparison with my dread, using the db meter on my phone.

bertie · February 2023

Sporky said:

Mostly just an idle question, but can an acoustic sound full and balanced without being loud?

always

BillDL · February 2023

My J45 is a bit quieter than normal because it is full of smuggled contraband tomatoes.

DavidR · February 2023

Yes from me too.

Question slightly ambiguous but answer to both interpretations still yes. This arises from the fact that, in modern non-orchestra use, the acoustic is an instrument for playing alone, with a mate or to small groups, rather than house parties, busking and in an orchestras as in the 1920's and 30's. In those playing circumstances you needed volume. Now, not so much.

So Yes, an acoustic can sound good if you don't play it loudly. Only when you add dynamics to a piece will the nicer aspects of a piece come out. Also, recording or performing a piece quietly and then playing it back with volume (and effects like reverb) can be revealing of tone.

And Yes, a quiet acoustic guitar can sound full and balanced. Quiet in this context probably means (a) small or (b) just quiet c.f a similar sized instrument. Such acoustics have often lost the boomy and dominant loud, boomy base and allow the mids and trebles to reveal themselves a bit more, or at least not be drowned out.

Even the instruments developed for volume like Resonators and dreadnoughts and jumbos can sound lovely if you ease off on the volume. Dreadnoughts especially can have a gorgeous dry woody sound which many go for.

For me, if I was on a quest for an acoustic which "sounded full and balanced without being loud", I would start off with a small all-mahogany instrument.

Sporky · February 2023

Thanks all. Though my definition of quiet might be very quiet - to me, most acoustic instruments (not just guitars) are very loud indeed.

DavidRees · February 2023

Sporky said:

Mostly just an idle question, but can an acoustic sound full and balanced without being loud?

and bring on the delight which is the 12 fret dreadnought played delicately, finger style, to an appreciative audience of anything from two to twenty people. the quieter you play the more people will listen I reckon

stickyfiddle · February 2023

I think there are a couple of points here. Acoustic instruments are fixed-volume, what with not having volume knobs and electricity in them. So you can absolutely play an acoustic guitar quietly by gently finger picking it, and a good one will sound absolutely great.

But it won't sound the same as it does when strummed heavily, and that absolutely can't be done quietly on most guitars. Generally speaking (and noting it's a hefty generalisation) smaller guitars are quieter than big ones, and that extends to when you strum them heavily, but a lot of them are also not really built for that and don't sound great when you do it.

But taking the question at absolute face value, yes a great acoustic guitar can 100% sound full and balanced when played quietly.

Mellish · February 2023

Another vote for yes.

There are times when you'd deliberately play a song quieter to give yourself room to kick it up in parts.

Grampa · February 2023

thermionic said:

Grampa said:

Taylor GS Mini? I can happily sit in the music room strumming away without disturbing Grandma who's watching TV in the living room across the hall....She does have the telly bloody loud these days mind you, hearing not what it was!

I’ve just been bashing away Neil Young style on my GS Mini and it’s not quiet! It can be played softly as well of course, and sounds great at all volumes.

I should do a side by side comparison with my dread, using the db meter on my phone.

Agreed, and very dependant on how you play. I'm 5'7", built like a brick outhouse, have fingers like pigs tits but have been told on several occasions that I'm far too "delicate" when playing acoustic....Fear of damaging the guitar probably!

Sporky · February 2023

Grampa said:

fingers like pigs tits

What a marvellous phrase!

Shadow · February 2023

Sporky said:

Grampa said:

fingers like pigs tits

What a marvellous phrase!

It is, but is it only me that still doesn't have a clue how big his fingers are??

Gandalph · February 2023

Shadow said:

Sporky said:

Grampa said:

fingers like pigs tits

What a marvellous phrase!

It is, but is it only me that still doesn't have a clue how big his fingers are??

Is there a local farm you can go and visit?

TheMadMick · February 2023

What seems to change with volume is the balance between the strings and the proportion of fundamental and overtones. Oddly, the overtones seem more refined when played quietly whereas the fundamentals and bass seem dominant when played loudly. It all depends on the effect you're trying to achieve.

Changing plectrum or finger attack can have at least as much effect. The problem is that there are very many variables and isolating one is next to impossible as they all interact.

Tannin · February 2023

I'm sure I've said this before here but think of it this way: guitar tops are like speaker cones. You can have a very light, responsive speaker cone which is as accurate and detailed as anyone could ever ask ... but start pumping the Watts through it and it breaks up and clips and sounds awful. Or you can have a solidly built, robust cone which will stand up to the most horrendous abuse, and faithfully reproduce good quality sound at mega-decibels - but it cannot cope with quiet, subtle passages. Or you can have one that averages the two out and isn't as good at either extreme but manages most stuff OK.

None of those three are the "right" answer. They are just different compromises. Pick your poison.

inewham · February 2023

I know bugger all about acoustics but I bought an APX600FM, the one with the maple top because it is comparatively quiet. I assume the maple top is stiffer and that makes it quieter.
That said a lot of people hate APX600s it seems but that's another thread

stickyfiddle · February 2023

Tannin said:

I'm sure I've said this before here but think of it this way: guitar tops are like speaker cones. You can have a very light, responsive speaker cone which is as accurate and detailed as anyone could ever ask ... but start pumping the Watts through it and it breaks up and clips and sounds awful. Or you can have a solidly built, robust cone which will stand up to the most horrendous abuse, and faithfully reproduce good quality sound at mega-decibels - but it cannot cope with quiet, subtle passages. Or you can have one that averages the two out and isn't as good at either extreme but manages most stuff OK.

None of those three are the "right" answer. They are just different compromises. Pick your poison.

My Bourgeois isn't in any oof those buckets. Though admittedly it's the most expensive guitar I've ever had

Sporky · February 2023

So if I put a neck on a bucket...?

BillDL · February 2023

It would have to have a hole in it, Dear Liza.

Soupman · February 2023

Gawd, that takes me back Bill !

Open_G · February 2023

I kind of assumed that the question was can an acoustic guitar that naturally produces fewer decibels, even when you dig in, compared to other instruments be considered a good instrument.

My gut reaction feels that when an instrument cannot project volume, that it, by definition, cannot have the depth, clarity and resonance of a peer that does.

guitarjack66 · February 2023

Sporky said:

So if I put a neck on a bucket...?

It's named a Harley Benton!

Sporky · February 2023

Open_G said:

I kind of assumed that the question was can an acoustic guitar that naturally produces fewer decibels, even when you dig in, compared to other instruments be considered a good instrument.

I think that might have been the question I thought I was asking. Certainly it's an aspect of it.

For clarity, most acoustics I've heard (and it's far from an exhaustive list) are far too loud for me.

ToneControl · February 2023

Sporky said:

Open_G said:

I kind of assumed that the question was can an acoustic guitar that naturally produces fewer decibels, even when you dig in, compared to other instruments be considered a good instrument.

I think that might have been the question I thought I was asking. Certainly it's an aspect of it.

For clarity, most acoustics I've heard (and it's far from an exhaustive list) are far too loud for me.

are you playing with a plectrum?
I play far louder when I use a plectrum

I'd say the stiffer spruce soundboards are much louder when played with a plectrum
Some are nicknamed "Banjo Killers", because they can match the dB from a Banjo

Fingerpicking with cedar or mahogany tops should be quieter
If you still want quieter for personal reasons, you could experiment with fitting a rosette to the soundhole to reduce the amount of air movement, or putting a bit of speaker baffle wadding inside the guitar. I think this would be very hit and miss, so would need experiments to see if you can tweak it to still get the frequency response you want

ICBM · February 2023

Sporky said:

For clarity, most acoustics I've heard (and it's far from an exhaustive list) are far too loud for me.

You could try one of these...

Tannin · February 2023

Two of my best guitars are complete opposites in this regard.

The Maton WA May is loud. Not as loud as my Guild or my single-luthier Mineur, but louder than most 000-size guitars. And it is an absolute pearler, an all-round gem of a guitar. (And I'd bloody well hope so too considering the price.)

The Cole Clark Angel is quiet. Very quiet by grand auditorium standards. I have handed it to other people to play many times and their reaction is always the same. 1: Gosh, it's quiet! 2: (ten seconds later) but wow! It has wonderful tone. Isn't it nice to play! Everybody says the same things about it, so it's not just me.

jaymenon · February 2023

All good points mentioned, there is however another side.

A car with a powerful engine responds to your lightest touch on the accelerator.

In some ways, an acoustic guitar is similar. When the lightest touch of your fingers produces a significant response on the instrument, that is a beautiful thing. And very often that is related to the acoustic volume of the instrument.

So to say that the acoustic volume of the instrument doesn’t matter is would be IMO wrong. It needs a certain level of volume, above which any further “loudness“ would Perhaps be irrelevant.

jaymenon · February 2023

And a lot depends on whether you wish to strum it or play it finger style

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Can an acoustic be quiet and sound good?

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