IR type when playing live

flying_pie · February 2023

Just wondering what type of IRs people prefer to use when going into the PA with a preamp pedal?

Do you prefer a close miced IR or a room mic? Is there any difference in feel out front or is it simply tonal?

Is there a big difference between the ones you've found work best for gigs compared to for home recording or playing with headphones on?

Roland · February 2023

For live I’d use a close mic’d IR. Let the room take care of itself. Don’t confuse the listeners’ ears with the sound of two different rooms.

When it comes to recording it depends what you’re after. I’d prefer to monitor through an IR, so that my brain and fingers are responding to what they hear, but take a line out before the IR so that I can try options when mixing.

flying_pie · February 2023

Thanks @Roland ;

I think it'll just take a fair bit of experimenting to find out what IRs sounds better through PAs compared to the ones I use for silent home practice where obviously my headphones massively colour the sound

jasonbone75 · February 2023

I use the same at home and live and that is always close. Ownhammer Marshall 4x12 (they do two can't remember which it is!) - the only tweaks are that they do slight EQ variations. Your favourite close mic with a high pass eq already on it around 80 even 100Hz would be ideal for live. Give some room for the bass and less for the sound guy to deal with. Depending on your rig you could switch in a mid pushed version of the same EQ for lead patches. Other than that keep it simple and use a quality IR to start with.

As Roland pointed out - no room or ambience etc. it will just thin things out.

flying_pie · February 2023

Thanks @jasonbone75 ; I use a Mooer Radarb for my IRs which has an EQ feature included and already have a high pass to give our (excellent) bassist plenty of room.

Perhaps just making a few of my own IRs with my usual cab would be an easier way to start, and take it from there. I end up with option paralysis from the free packs I've already got, and find the prospect of studying though the even more comprehensive Ownhammer/Celestion packs to be really intimidating.

Life was so much easier when I was way less particular about all this. I miss those days

jasonbone75 · February 2023

Yeah we can all relate to that. I avoid the paralysis because I ignore all of the extra mixes and mics on the ownhammer and deliberately just go for the summary mixes. They are excellent and all of the other stuff is unnecessary for 99% of users without plenty of experience in the studio with cabs already!

it sounds like you are pretty much where you need to be already so consider us as endorsement to keep doing it :-) If you like your cab and have the means to capture decent IRs then go for it, pick one and use it live.

flying_pie · February 2023

Thanks @jasonbone75 ;;I don't know about necessarily capturing "decent" IRs but it's a piece of piss to record your own shoddy ones! And perhaps going with a familiar sound to start with is easier than loads of new options.

I also can't help feeling that there's an awful lot of snake oil speak as far as home made and fully paid up pro IRs go, especially when there's overdrive/high gain involved. It's clearly a different matter if you're Nolly Getgood and you know precisely which IRs/ cab & mics get the precise particular sound you need for a specific track. But I think it just really confuses things for those of us who are more simple minded

Roland · February 2023

jasonbone75 said:

Yeah we can all relate to that. I avoid the paralysis because I ignore all of the extra mixes and mics on the ownhammer and deliberately just go for the summary mixes. …. If you like your cab and have the means to capture decent IRs then go for it, pick one and use it live.

An important aspect of playing live is to minimise the variables. There’s enough to listen to and concentrate on without being distracted by “is this the right IR?”

I always use the same IRs, on all songs, and both live and at home. They are standard IRs. IMHO All the different mixes and mic positions are only important for recording, and even then more relevant to mixing rather than getting a good take.

flying_pie · February 2023

I agree @Roland ;; in the past I just used a DI out from my amp and that was it. You just get the best sound from the amp EQ and leave everything else as is. Simple. But I changed to a lighter setup that needs an IR pedal instead which has caused me angst but your collective input has definitely helped.

I only ever planned to use the one IR for a set, and it makes a lot of sense to just to stick with the same one at home and just live with any headphone based difference.

Roland · February 2023

I’m sitting in a car park waiting for someone, so here’s the long story. I live with three sound set ups: the Mackie SRM450s in my PA, the Matrix Q12 which I use like a monitor to kick a bit of life into my guitar, and IEMs which I use live and at home. All my patches are set up using the IEMs. What I hear through IEMs live is slightly warmer than at home, partly due to guitar wireless rather than cable, partly due to our digital mixer and IEM wireless. The Q12 I accept is rather bright. The PA is EQd for the room, so doesn’t matter, except if I have to remove my IEMs for some reason. I’m forever tweaking guitar tone and volume as I play to suit the song. The last thing I want is another variable, such as an IR.

Similarly I always try to use the same Amp type. With the AxeFX II I used two Amp types. With the AxeFX III I use just one. A couple of times in the last ten years I’ve changed Amp types, and knuckled down to choose complementary IRs. It’s a lengthy process because I select them at home, with IEMs, try them out at rehearsal to make sure they cut through, and finally at a gig to make sure they sit nicely. Once done I don’t want to change the decision. For simplicity I stick with standard IR mixes. I used to use Ownhammer because of their clarity, and was happy to crowd fund Kevin’s development. This last time I’m using a pair of Fractal IRs because they were closer to my needs.

Fractal and Ownhammer IRs are better than anything I could make at home. I don’t have the mics nor a treated room. For a while I did use a homemade IR which matched my Tele neck pickup to my Taylor acoustic. It was OK, but not perfect. Getting a good acoustic simulation is important to the band’s sound. Last year I searched the internet for acoustic guitar samples to use instead of my home-recorded acoustic. Most samples were a poorer match, which I think was generally down to their post recording treatment. Eventually I found two Martin samples, and made an acoustic matching IR with those.

flying_pie · February 2023

Thanks @Roland ;

It does sounds like it's a lengthy process, especially as it's easy to go ear blind very quickly when going through IR libraries at home. At least I just use a tube preamp.pedal which limits the variables when compared with modellers. And while we've now got almost infinite possibilities with mics and cabs giving a headache it's a damn sight better than the venue's sound guy insisting on draping a cheap vocal mic vertically onto the cab grille

At least I've narrowed things down to looking for a nice V30 IR. Or maybe a greenback...or maybe a Blackback... Aaaargh!

Roland · February 2023

flying_pie said:

Thanks @Roland ;;

It does sounds like it's a lengthy process,

So is buying and selling amps and speakers in search of “the one”

flying_pie · March 2023

Roland said:

flying_pie said:

Thanks @Roland ;;

It does sounds like it's a lengthy process,

So is buying and selling amps and speakers in search of “the one”

Perhaps. But you wouldn't go back and forth through several hundred the way your can with IRs!

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IR type when playing live

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