How long to find an acoustic?

Mellish · February 2023

^ ah...but

I said my OM-28 is "perfect" cos it gives me the tone I'd been searching for since 1960.
Now,no two acoustics can possibly sound the same, regardless of models/manufacturers (let's not drag that into it again). But this Martin OM-28 Re-imagined ticks ALL the boxes, has the tone I've spent almost a lifetime searching for so (for me) it's every acoustic I'll ever want so (again, for me) it's.......

erm....... Perfect

Choivert · February 2023

I think lots of the points put forwards are really worthwhile and very interesting. I'd like to chime in with my two cents.

I completely agree with smellyfingers that gear acquisition and reading/comparing can definitely get in the way of becoming a better guitarist. I used to spend lots of time trying to justify that this or that will make me a better.... Or make me sound better. And I dont disagree with the subtleties of back woods having different sounds and in general acoustics being better for different things. But I feel like these differences are dwarfed by playing ability and if you wish to be the best player, I think time and money is better spent practicing.

However, I'm a bit of a geek and tend to love getting really involved in the technical/history side of guitars. For this reason, I love reading about and playing different guitars and potentially buying/collecting. I have found it much easier to justify this if I'm honest to myself and go into it knowing that it is unlikely to make me a better player but I'd like a new guitar for XYZ reasons. I've found this leads to significantly less disappointment in the long run.

This is just how I approach it. I am incredibly fortunate that the first 'proper' guitar I bought after playing my grandad's old Korean made Franconia for years is still the best guitar I have ever heard so maybe I found my 'one' way sooner than I had any merit to.

thomasross20 · February 2023

100% that 99% is down to how good a player you are and 1% is down to the guitar.

Dave_Mc · February 2023

camf said:
However, there remain some unresolvable complications to be navigated. I much prefer the sound of large guitars but I’m much happier playing smaller guitars… that there is the conundrum. Onwards!

I thought that's how everyone was with acoustics! That's the way I am, at least. You're balancing the ideal tone with the ideal comfortable size...

@Tannin Agreed.

Now- it is possible that depending on what and how you play, there may be something perfect as @Mellish said. A lot of this is dependent on the person.

Another thing is, you have to work with what you've got (the person, I mean). It's probably completely true that spending money on lessons (instead of gear) and practising more will make you better. In the same way that eating kale all the time is healthier than eating chocolate. But if you're the kind of person who struggles with that, if buying (or even just researching) new gear occasionally is what keeps your interest and stops you from quitting, that's probably worth it.

I mean... I did everything wrong when I started learning guitar (I'm self-taught, though I had lessons in other instruments before I played guitar). I learnt everything in the wrong order (I could play Van Halen lead licks before I could play a G chord!), and I still have some pretty alarming rudimentary gaps in my knowledge. And I certainly don't practise enough, and spend more time looking at guitars and associated gear online than practising. But I'm still playing. And I still enjoy it. If I'd done it "right", I might well be a far better player than I am now. I also might well have quit within 3 weeks- and it goes without saying that if that had happened I'd be a much worse guitar player than I am now.

Mellish · February 2023

@Dave_Mc ; if you've got an acoustic that plays great, got the sound to die for, comfortable to play, you absolutely love it to bits then (for you) that's perfection or as close as you're maybe going to get.

It may not be good for ALL genres, I'm not pretending that, but this OM-28 just does folk/blues and is so good at that, that my search for an acoustic is over. I consider it perfect in that way.

Mellish · February 2023

Saying what I've said, @Tannin is a mate, and I'm not in any way disagreeing with him. What he said could be very true for him. I'm just posting my thoughts of how it is for me, no-one else.

ICBM · February 2023

Tannin said:

So which of these is "the best"? None of them. They all suit different moods and different purposes. The search for "the one" is doomed to take a lifetime because no matter what guitar you buy or how much you spend, there will always be other guitars which do some things better.

No... my Gibson Dove is perfect. Other acoustics may do other interesting things, but the Dove can do everything. The only reason I have three others is because one has twelve strings, one has nylon strings, and one is just a nice thing to have (and Mrs ICBM likes it).

p90fool · February 2023

Over the course of about a week or so I just researched the kinds of acoustic sounds I liked on records (Gibson dreadnought), decided what kind of neck I prefer (fat) and ordered a Gibson J35.

Since buying it I've devoted more time to becoming a better acoustic player, something my J35 is good enough not to stand in the way of.

Some of the classic tones which made a lot of us want to play in the first place were made on the only guitars available at the time, often with non "classic" features, like Gibson acoustics with Tuneomatic bridges, or CBS-era Strats. Nobody could "run the racks" then, they bought the only Les Paul in the window, or whatever they could get from a US airbase.

I could have compared a dozen J35s looking for The One, but we all know that a magical guitar tone one day doesn't seem to have the same aura the following morning even with the same player with the same guitar in the same room, so picking one guitar out of dozens of others feels like a fool's errand to me.

Delaying the purchase of a guitar also delays learning how to get the best out of it, what strings it likes, and how to produce its best tones.

bugileman · February 2023

guitarjack66 said:

Don't worry about the price either. Pick up and play a few 'budget' guitars too and ignore the name on the headstock. Feel and listen and you may be surprised how much you like a few of them.

I agree, I have an old rare model Aria acoustic guitar. I took it to PMT in Birmingham to try it along side some Martins etc none of them could come anywhere close for sound. I think it's a bit of a myth that expensive guitars are going to be better. My friend wanted to buy the Aria from me at one stage, so glad I didn't.

bertie · February 2023

about every 6 years

ICBM · February 2023

bugileman said:

I have an old rare model Aria acoustic guitar. I took it to PMT in Birmingham to try it along side some Martins etc none of them could come anywhere close for sound. I think it's a bit of a myth that expensive guitars are going to be better. My friend wanted to buy the Aria from me at one stage, so glad I didn't.

It’s not a myth, but it’s a proportional thing not absolute. Outstanding cheap guitars are rare but do exist, terrible cheap ones are common, terrible expensive ones are rare but also exist, good expensive ones are common. Spending more does increase the likelihood of getting a great one, but doesn’t guarantee it - unless you go to a high enough price that they’re all hand-checked, then it’s pretty much a certainty.

But even then, sometimes a cheap guitar will have ‘something’ you like that no expensive one does. Never sell that Aria.

Jez6345789 · February 2023

Lots of good stuff here.

but wanted to add a few thoughts.
Of course find what you like but having only really got into acoustics properly over the last 10 years myself the one thing I learnt is having played electric and not bothered with the one acoustic I have had since the 70’s. as an electric player your touch and ability is pretty unuanced coming straight off years of playing electric. Also you are probably not half as attuned to the the sounds of an acoustic.

Also the guitar you buy if new will probably change a good bit overtime. We all hope we get more of what’s we liked but that is not always the case.

if you play it a lot over the years your ability to bring out the best in the guitar will increase as you evolve with the instrument through different songs.

The whole acoustic thing to me is a journey, what I thought I knew 10 years ago has been washed away.

So as I see it if 10 years ago someone had handed me the so called one I would not have had the skills or knowledge to appreciate what I was holding.

if I was in you situation of not being able to travel to try lots of different styles and brands I would just pickup something that is considered a good budget guitar. Something people rate and is good value live and learn with it till you can get the time to explore more brands and styles you will better understand yours and the guitars strengths and weaknesses. .

there are a whole lot of solid wood good value acoustics out there it is a golden time .

hth

Dave_Mc · February 2023

Mellish said:

Saying what I've said, @Tannin is a mate, and I'm not in any way disagreeing with him. What he said could be very true for him. I'm just posting my thoughts of how it is for me, no-one else.

Yeah same here, I'm not disagreeing with you either! It may well be significant that I haven't tried either an OM-28 nor a Dove, which apparently are perfect...

p90fool said:

Over the course of about a week or so I just researched the kinds of acoustic sounds I liked on records (Gibson dreadnought), decided what kind of neck I prefer (fat) and ordered a Gibson J35.

Since buying it I've devoted more time to becoming a better acoustic player, something my J35 is good enough not to stand in the way of.

Some of the classic tones which made a lot of us want to play in the first place were made on the only guitars available at the time, often with non "classic" features, like Gibson acoustics with Tuneomatic bridges, or CBS-era Strats. Nobody could "run the racks" then, they bought the only Les Paul in the window, or whatever they could get from a US airbase.

I could have compared a dozen J35s looking for The One, but we all know that a magical guitar tone one day doesn't seem to have the same aura the following morning even with the same player with the same guitar in the same room, so picking one guitar out of dozens of others feels like a fool's errand to me.

Delaying the purchase of a guitar also delays learning how to get the best out of it, what strings it likes, and how to produce its best tones.

I agree with you... except even with the small number of acoustics I've tried, they seem to be very variable even with the same model! Especially Gibson, too.

That being said, as I've said before, I bought my Dowina without trying a single one of them and it's great. It definitely can work out!

Tannin · February 2023

No worries at all @Mellish I agree with you (and I agree with me). Do those two views contradict one another? Sure they do. But life is full of contradictions. That is one of the things that makes it interesting.

Let me illustrate your case with the examples of my two brothers. Brother #1 has had a lovely Japanese-made 12-string for 50 years. For all that time, it was the only guitar he wanted or needed. Last year, probably led over to the Dark Side by me, he decided he wanted a 6-string as well. I pointed him at several which I thought would suit his ear, playing style, and budget, and he ended up buying the same one I liked the look of - a Larivee. He lives interstate so I haven't played it yet but I'm sure that it (together with the CBS 12) will be the only two guitars he ever needs or wants.

Brother #2 is the real musician in the family He mostly plays electric and is a wizard at recording and mixing. Sometimes he thinks about replacing his ancient plywood Morris acoustic (which is playable, more-or-less) with something nice. I once offered to give him one of my Matons. Thank god he declined - in the time since then I have come to love that cedar-top dread. It has opened up beautifully. Or possibly I've learned to play a bit. This bears on @Jez6345789's point - our guitars change and our tastes change and the way we play them changes. This is one of the many reasons why, no @ICBM, Doves are not The Answer.

Back to Brother #2. He mostly plays electric and has two: one for standard tuning, one tuned to Eb because his band tunes to Eb (for reasons no-one can remember now). They are good quality guitars, one Ibanez, one Strat, but nothing outstanding, and if you stole them both and gave him (say) a Tele or a 335, it really wouldn't matter much. His main interest is production. His guitar is simply a tool he uses to record stuff with. Any good guitar would do and he doesn't fiddle with them. In contrast, he fiddles endlessly with recording software and equipment, always looking for the "perfect" setup.

Contrast with me. I have 7 acoustic guitars plus one being built in Hobart and I think I'll probably order yet another later on this year while I'm in the UK for a few days. How many of those do I need? One. Not any one of the seven, it would have to be an all-rounder not too specialised in one sound or another. Does having all those fine guitars make me a better player? Sure it does - but the difference is small.

Would I do better to put that time and money and energy into more lessons and practice? No.

Flat no. I already do as much practice and as much study as I am capable of without burning out my love and interest and/or blowing up my left arm tendons. (The arm is fine, I just have to remember not to make unreasonable demands of it.)

So it's a lot of money and a lot of energy buying guitars resulting in only a small return. (I could get by with just one.) Why do it? Because I like doing it.

(If you ever think of a better reason for doing anything, let me know!)

guitarjack66 · February 2023

thomasross20 said:

100% that 99% is down to how good a player you are and 1% is down to the guitar.

I think guitar size,shape and comfort,neck size/shape,nut width and such are the key even before the sound comes into it. If you are 5ft 5 and play seated then no type of jumbo is likely to fit the bill.

stickyfiddle · February 2023

ICBM said:

bugileman said:

I have an old rare model Aria acoustic guitar. I took it to PMT in Birmingham to try it along side some Martins etc none of them could come anywhere close for sound. I think it's a bit of a myth that expensive guitars are going to be better. My friend wanted to buy the Aria from me at one stage, so glad I didn't.

It’s not a myth, but it’s a proportional thing not absolute. Outstanding cheap guitars are rare but do exist, terrible cheap ones are common, terrible expensive ones are rare but also exist, good expensive ones are common. Spending more does increase the likelihood of getting a great one, but doesn’t guarantee it - unless you go to a high enough price that they’re all hand-checked, then it’s pretty much a certainty.

But even then, sometimes a cheap guitar will have ‘something’ you like that no expensive one does. Never sell that Aria.

Hell yeah to this. I've plenty plenty of seriously average "cardboard-sounding" Martins, including really expensive models. I don't recall ever playing a Taylor that wasn't impressive but I don't really like them.

Equally, my old Taylor 214 was a spectacular instrument that cost (at the time) around 350 - an absurdly good guitar for that price.

drofluf · February 2023

Don’t overthink it. You won’t find “the one” with the first guitar you buy unless you’re incredibly lucky so you’re going to have to kiss a few frogs.

A recording of a D28/Dove/whatever may sound perfect to you but that same instrument will sound different in your house under your fingers. And, if I understood the first post correctly, you’re new to acoustic guitars so probably need to discover what works best for you.

So when you can get out and try different brands and body shapes; get something and play it whilst keeping an open mind about what works for you.

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How long to find an acoustic?

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