Some help understanding this listing on Rich Tone

Aornic · January 2023

https://richtonemusic.co.uk/martin-000-28ec-eric-clapton-signature-hard-case-2nd-hand-122926/

I've been looking at this Martin Clapton signature for the past week. My current acoustic is a Taylor Academy 12e, so it would be a big upgrade if I go for it - but for the amount it's not a decision I can make without being sure. I'm too far to try it out at their shop.

However, other used Clapton Martins I'm seeing on the used market are around 3400-3700 in price, and the new price is 4300.

2800 seems like a good price considering that, so I'm wondering why this hasn't been snatched up already.

Is there something in the listing that would put you off? I feel like I'm missing something. I'm likely overthinking it, but I'm so used to well priced items flying off the used listings that this remaining is an outlier.

bertie · January 2023

"This is a previously loved item and as such may have signs of use."

the word "may" puts me off straight away - - if they have it and have seen it they'd know - so it could be they're selling it on comission for a private seller, without actually seeing/having it in "stock" and using photo's from the seller

It its something as lazy as using "pro forma" text to describe it for a £2.5K + guitar .............. that, for me, would be another indicator to leave it well alone

I could well be wrong, but that's my gut instinct

Aornic · January 2023

bertie said:

"This is a previously loved item and as such may have signs of use."

the word "may" puts me off straight away - - if they have it and have seen it they'd know - so it could be they're selling it on comission for a private seller, without actually seeing/having it in "stock" and using photo's from the seller

It its something as lazy as using "pro forma" text to describe it for a £2.5K + guitar .............. that, for me, would be another indicator to leave it well alone

I could well be wrong, but that's my gut instinct

I am not disagreeing but that's a pre-written statement that is included on all their listings at any price point. I prefer GuitarGuitar's assessment notes on pre-owned items for sure, they seem to be more accurate.

bertie · January 2023

Aornic said:

bertie said:

"This is a previously loved item and as such may have signs of use."

the word "may" puts me off straight away - - if they have it and have seen it they'd know - so it could be they're selling it on comission for a private seller, without actually seeing/having it in "stock" and using photo's from the seller

It its something as lazy as using "pro forma" text to describe it for a £2.5K + guitar .............. that, for me, would be another indicator to leave it well alone

I could well be wrong, but that's my gut instinct

I am not disagreeing but that's a pre-written statement that is included on all their listings at any price point. I prefer GuitarGuitar's assessment notes on pre-owned items for sure, they seem to be more accurate.

OK - but that's the only thing I can see................... for a near £3k guitar, Id expect more.

Have you contacted them to "discuss" as they've suggested ?

Aornic · January 2023

bertie said:

Aornic said:

bertie said:

"This is a previously loved item and as such may have signs of use."

the word "may" puts me off straight away - - if they have it and have seen it they'd know - so it could be they're selling it on comission for a private seller, without actually seeing/having it in "stock" and using photo's from the seller

It its something as lazy as using "pro forma" text to describe it for a £2.5K + guitar .............. that, for me, would be another indicator to leave it well alone

I could well be wrong, but that's my gut instinct

I am not disagreeing but that's a pre-written statement that is included on all their listings at any price point. I prefer GuitarGuitar's assessment notes on pre-owned items for sure, they seem to be more accurate.

OK - but that's the only thing I can see................... for a near £3k guitar, Id expect more.

Have you contacted them to "discuss" as they've suggested ?

Yeah, I feel like more information is indeed warranted.

I might give them a call tomorrow, have been researching the EC models in the meantime. Dated this specific one to 1999. Some forums say they're notoriously inconsistent too.

Mellish · February 2023

Like @bertie, for nearly £3k, the word "may" appears a little too often for my liking.

A guitar in Classifieds here, say, with "may have scratches and dings" would be slow to sell. Why? Cos you want to know the condition - not what it *may* be, but what it *is*.

brucegill · February 2023

Aornic said:

bertie said:

Aornic said:

bertie said:

"This is a previously loved item and as such may have signs of use."

the word "may" puts me off straight away - - if they have it and have seen it they'd know - so it could be they're selling it on comission for a private seller, without actually seeing/having it in "stock" and using photo's from the seller

It its something as lazy as using "pro forma" text to describe it for a £2.5K + guitar .............. that, for me, would be another indicator to leave it well alone

I could well be wrong, but that's my gut instinct

I am not disagreeing but that's a pre-written statement that is included on all their listings at any price point. I prefer GuitarGuitar's assessment notes on pre-owned items for sure, they seem to be more accurate.

OK - but that's the only thing I can see................... for a near £3k guitar, Id expect more.

Have you contacted them to "discuss" as they've suggested ?

Yeah, I feel like more information is indeed warranted.

I might give them a call tomorrow, have been researching the EC models in the meantime. Dated this specific one to 1999. Some forums say they're notoriously inconsistent too.

Got to say, I tried one used at a retailer a few years back and it was utter rubbish. Can 100% see I could have got a dud one to try, and every make and model will have some duds. But you could still send it back.

Tannin · February 2023

£2800 for a guitar you have never seen, let alone played is flirting with disaster. £2800 for an acoustic guitar you've never played is scary-man stuff.

Go for a drive, catch a train, hitch a ride, whatever it takes. It's an acoustic. Every wooden acoustic guitar ever made is different. Unless £2800 doesn't matter to you, play before you buy.

DavidR · February 2023

There's a fairly major ding next to the scratchplate (7th photo) which will have lowered retail value. Wouldn't influence me at this price; tolerate or repair. Otherwise it's an excellent price. The fact they've supplied 20 photos suggests staightworthiness?

If you're keen, go and play it and snap it up. Mid-range/all Martins vary +++ in their tone as I'm sure you know.

Personally I wouldn't spend this amount of money without playing it and inspecting it.

Martin OM28 Standard (the old re-imagined spec) £3,659

Have you looked at Furch or Larrivee at your price range?
Larrivee 40 Legacy range looks yummy. Larrivee OM40R is £1,900'ish second. Looks great value. Also new 44 series. Reviewed in this month's Guitarist.

Stratavarious · February 2023

I would not throw money like that at instruments without playing and trying them first to see if they are ones I’d bond with or enjoyed playing beyond others of same spec. Anything else is just falling for the marketing and fashion.

It might be a bargain, it might be a dog. Only way to know is to try it against a few others. Then take the one that you can’t put down.

I found Larrivees and higher end Yamahas that blew everything else away.

Lewy · February 2023

Buying a guitar remotely is sometimes unavoidable depending on the specific instrument, where it is, where you are etc.

If I was going to do that, I would insist on the following information:

Action at the 12th fret for high and low E string
Amount of Neck relief
String height over the top at the bridge (in other words, the distance between the underside of the string and the actual soundboard, measured right in front of the bridge)

These let you know what the general geometry of the guitar is and whether it will be easily setup-able to your requirements. If you can't play it, knowing it can be set up to play and sound optimal is the next best thing.

Aornic · February 2023

Stratavarious said:

I would not throw money like that at instruments without playing and trying them first to see if they are ones I’d bond with or enjoyed playing beyond others of same spec. Anything else is just falling for the marketing and fashion.

It might be a bargain, it might be a dog. Only way to know is to try it against a few others. Then take the one that you can’t put down.

I found Larrivees and higher end Yamahas that blew everything else away.

Coincidentally, I've also been looking at this. Also too far to try however.

https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/px230113398813002--larrivee-om03r-pre-owned

Soupman · February 2023

@Aornic , won't GuitarGuitar ship it to a nearby branch for you to try out?
I'm sure Mellish said as much with a recent experience?

Aornic · February 2023

Soupman said:

@Aornic , won't GuitarGuitar ship it to a nearby branch for you to try out?
I'm sure Mellish said as much with a recent experience?

I'm not aware of this. On the site I see a Click and Collect button but I assume that purchasing it first.

Strummer63 · February 2023

Soupman said:

@Aornic , won't GuitarGuitar ship it to a nearby branch for you to try out?
I'm sure Mellish said as much with a recent experience?

I believe you have to pay a 10% refundable deposit for this to happen.

Mellish · February 2023

@Soupman ; yes mate as @Strummer63 said, you pay a 10% deposit to get a guitar shipped to your local GG store.

Should you change your mind when you try it, you get your money back. OR, if you fancy another guitar, your 10% will roll over to that if you want it to

ICBM · February 2023

Aornic said:

I might give them a call tomorrow, have been researching the EC models in the meantime. Dated this specific one to 1999. Some forums say they're notoriously inconsistent too.

I played one in a shop around then - it's the only one I have so far, so I have no other reference, but it really wasn't a great guitar at all. The OM-21 next to it for a third of the price was *far* better - like it was made by a different manufacturer better - so I bought that.

I would absolutely not buy it without trying it, if sending your current guitar to them first is part of the package.

Aornic · February 2023

Appreciate all the comments! I guess I'll just leave this Clapton model as a mystery. The Larrivee looks mighty nice, I'll see what I can do to try it out.

ditchboy · February 2023

I bought a brand new Martin online. £3200 worth and I was shitting a brick. It worked out brilliantly in the end but I’d be massively reluctant on that model. Try the Larrivee. They are so good and you will struggle to find a better made guitar imo.

Aornic · February 2023

ditchboy said:

I bought a brand new Martin online. £3200 worth and I was shitting a brick. It worked out brilliantly in the end but I’d be massively reluctant on that model. Try the Larrivee. They are so good and you will struggle to find a better made guitar imo.

Just paid the 10% deposit to demo it. Should be an interesting afternoon at the very least.

Mellish · February 2023

@Aornic ; let us know how it goes.

Jimbro66 · February 2023

I tried a Martin EC model ten years ago when I was searching for a good acoustic. It was about £1,900 at that time and I was thoroughly underwhelmed by it. I ended up with an Atkin OM that was in a different league altogether.

A friend has a Larrivee, an older one, and it sounds really nice. A lovely rich tone. It’ll be interesting to hear what you think of it @Aornic.

Tannin · February 2023

Smart move. Never marry unless you are in love. If you really and truly do fall for it, go, go, go!

bertie · February 2023

Jimbro66 said:

I tried a Martin EC model ten years ago when I was searching for a good acoustic. It was about £1,900 at that time and I was thoroughly underwhelmed by it.

ditto about 20 years ago , I actually bought a Taylor 614 !! - that's how bad the Martin was, it was just so "hard" to get on with

Tannin · February 2023

Forgive my ignorance, but what makes the EC model different from a standard 000-28? Martin says it combines a short scale with a wider nut, but all 000-28s have the short scale and the much cheaper not quite so crazy-expensive Standard Series 000-28 has the same 44.5mm nut as the EC model. $600 USD is a hell of a lot extra to pay for a clapped-out drug addict's signature.

Lewy · February 2023

Tannin said:

Forgive my ignorance, but what makes the EC model different from a standard 000-28? Martin says it combines a short scale with a wider nut, but all 000-28s have the short scale and the much cheaper not quite so crazy-expensive Standard Series 000-28 has the same 44.5mm nut as the EC model. $600 USD is a hell of a lot extra to pay for a clapped-out drug addict's signature.

Don't know all the differences but I know the Clapton has a prominent V neck.

ICBM · February 2023

Tannin said:

Forgive my ignorance, but what makes the EC model different from a standard 000-28? Martin says it combines a short scale with a wider nut, but all 000-28s have the short scale and the much cheaper not quite so crazy-expensive Standard Series 000-28 has the same 44.5mm nut as the EC model. $600 USD is a hell of a lot extra to pay for a clapped-out drug addict's signature.

At the time it was introduced it was the only roughly vintage-spec 000 model they did - the standard 000-18 and 28 had ‘modern’ bracing. The OM-21 came out at around the same time and was the first 000/OM reissue with vintage-style bracing.

More vintage-spec 000s have been added to the range subsequently which makes the EC look like just an overpriced signature on a guitar.

idiotwindow · February 2023

The EC also has, I believe, a slightly wider spacing at the bridge compared with the regular 000-28. I tried one a few years ago in the Westside shop in Denmark Street and rather liked it – certainly the feel of it. Very comfortable neck. For a while I considered selling or trading my reimagined D-28 for one but I've since grown used to the neck on my D-28 and I don't play acoustic seriously enough to care to spend the price difference.

guitarjack66 · February 2023

Tannin said:

Smart move. Never marry unless you are in love. If you really and truly do fall for it, go, go, go!

I wish I'd have thought about that 30+ years ago! I'd still be old free and single rather than old,married and carrying a ball and chain!

Mrs Guitarjack doesn't read the forum thankfully.

Gandalph · February 2023

Tannin said:

Forgive my ignorance, but what makes the EC model different from a standard 000-28? Martin says it combines a short scale with a wider nut, but all 000-28s have the short scale and the much cheaper not quite so crazy-expensive Standard Series 000-28 has the same 44.5mm nut as the EC model. $600 USD is a hell of a lot extra to pay for a clapped-out drug addict's signature.

The EC model has 2 1/4" string spacing.
I believe the standard 000-28 is 2 5/32".

Tannin · February 2023

^ I'm going to have to fire up a spreadsheet to work out what that means.

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Some help understanding this listing on Rich Tone

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