NGD and tuner question

spev11 · January 2023

My new (budget) Cort AP550M arrived today and its great, it was £110 so I wasn't expecting too much to be honest (its going to live at my workplace which is best described as oily) but I'm thoroughly enjoying it for what it is.
It's steel strung with slotted headstock so has 3 on a plate tuners and they are , if I'm being polite a bit agricultural and lacking in tuning stability. Frankly they are terrible so before I swap strings (also not great) I'm wondering what the best (not too expensive) option there is? I know next to nothing about these open gear 3 plate tuners so need educating.

drofluf · January 2023

Is the instability definitely the tuners and not the strings binding in the nut?

spev11 · January 2023

yeah the nut is clear and clean, the tuners are notchy and grabby, i'm going to strip them down and give a good clean and little bit of lube first

drofluf · January 2023

Other thing to check is how “straight” the string angle from tuner to nut is. If there’s too much of an angle that can also cause binding at the nut.

DavidR · January 2023

Just looked at www pics of AP550M headstock and it has 3-on-plate acoustic tuners on an angled, slotted headstock. The tuning plate has a lyre shaped end and typically these (and slotted headstocks) are very much part of the classical tradition but there's a fashion, cos its cool and looks nice to put slotted headstocks on small acoustics too and I like them.

Replacing 3-on-plate tuning mechanisms is not difficult but ideally the fixing screws on the new mechanism should align with the old ones. No problem if they don't; you can fill the old holes with wood splinter packing and drill out new ones. Depends how handy you are. Avoid drilling right through the headstock and out the other side (I've done it). Use the right sized bit on your drill so the screws bite but don't split the wood. Many tuning plates will come with the accurate dimensions at sale. A slotted headstock has 3 wide grooves that are home to the tuner posts and the distance between these larger holes is usually (!) standard.

I wouldn't put individual 3 per side tuners on a slotted headstock myself because the 2 styles are different in my opinion, but many do. But you don't have to have the lyre shape at the end of the plate. You do need to choose sealed or open though. Open more trendy atm. Prices vary. Don't buy actual classical tuners, they're different.

Musiclily Pro 3 on a Plate Acoustic Guitar Tuners Machine Heads Tuning Keys Pegs Set, Nickel with White Button : Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments & DJ

Kigauru Guitar Tuning Pegs 2pcs Classic Guitar String Tuning Pegs Machine Heads Tuners Acoustic Guitar Tuning Head Tuner Instruments Accessories : Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments & DJ

Search Amazon. Have a go. If you're not at all handy, get a luthier to do it. I once asked the luthier I use (Earl Marsh) if changing tuners changed the tone of the guitar. He said yes, any change you make to an instrument can change the tone!

spev11 · January 2023

Yeah I'd noticed that nylon strung tuners usually have nylon or plastic rollers, I'm thinking that the exisiting ones could do with a bit of love first so a strip down and a good clean and lube might be just the job. I'd looked on Amazon and not see, either of those so that shows my search skills up

ICBM · January 2023

Actually, the very first thing to do is *not* to lubricate them. Instead, take the strings off and using a string winder, rotate them continuously for a couple of minutes each - a hundred turns or more - this will deliberately wear the gears and help free them up, they’re often very crudely made and rough when new. *Then* lubricate and restring.

DavidR · January 2023

ICBM said:

Actually, the very first thing to do is *not* to lubricate them. Instead, take the strings off and using a string winder, rotate them continuously for a couple of minutes each - a hundred turns or more - this will deliberately wear the gears and help free them up, they’re often very crudely made and rough when new. *Then* lubricate and restring.

Agree. No lubricant. Machine heads a dry mechanism according to most. Lubricants attract gunk.

spev11 · January 2023

i was going to put a little dab of graphite on them, but after cleaning them and getting the tension on them set similar they are moving much better. I've just cleaned and lemon oiled the board (very dry),restrung and adjusted the action a tad lower (there were two spacers under the saddle raising it up almost 1mm or so, the action was around 2.25mm according to my gauge , now its 1.8mm on the EAD and 1.7mm on the GBE) i'll give it a couple of hours playing and see how the tuning stability is.
If it starts to wander (not temp related as the shop gets cold) then I'll look at my options.

ICBM · January 2023

DavidR said:

Agree. No lubricant. Machine heads a dry mechanism according to most. Lubricants attract gunk.

I would put a small amount of lubricant - preferably light machine oil (eg 3-In-1), not grease - on after doing the 'wear-in'. You don't actually want them totally dry, that does wear them out very quickly.

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NGD and tuner question

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