Pub gigs- Cab flat on it's back?

SurfinSirFari · January 2023

In pubs and clubs with the cab mic'd but horizontal on a beer rate or similar, directly facing the ceiling. Anyone do or tried this? Pros and cons? Cheers!

ESBlonde · January 2023

No, but I used to have my 2x12 JBL cab set like a monitor in front of my pedalboard facing back at me at about 30deg (and miced). It provided about 75% of the volume in the smaller spaces and the PA pushed/spread the rest. Onstage sound was wonderful for me I could hear everything.

maharg101 · January 2023

Haven't tried that. I'd imagine it would make for some variable results depending on the height and composition of the ceiling.

What's the motivation ?

My approach is to use Mitchell donuts !

lustycourtier · January 2023

Doesnt Springsteen run his cabs like this?

Danny1969 · January 2023

This kind of thing strikes me as crazy. We lump a cab in because presumably we want the audience and ourselves to hear it but then we dream up all kinds of ways to avoid hearing it.

Anyone tried putting the cab in the pub carpark ?
Anyone tried leaving the fucker at home ? ... does that work ?

I mean c'mon

SurfinSirFari · January 2023

Haha, take your point but I was wondering how the sound might disperse instead of having a tight beam deathray coming out the front at a frowning soundman/punter? Trying to find a happy medium without spending money...

Cirrus · January 2023

If you use an oversize 4x12 and a cocktail drum kit, it'd double as the drum riser.

Dan_Halen · January 2023

SurfinSirFari said:

Haha, take your point but I was wondering how the sound might disperse instead of having a tight beam deathray coming out the front at a frowning soundman/punter? Trying to find a happy medium without spending money...

If it's a 1x12, stick it on a beer crate or small table, 2x12 then rotate it so it's vertical, if it's a 4x12.... get a 1x12 or 2x12.

RickLucas · January 2023

lustycourtier said:

Doesnt Springsteen run his cabs like this?

And John Fogerty.

Danny1969 · January 2023

SurfinSirFari said:

Haha, take your point but I was wondering how the sound might disperse instead of having a tight beam deathray coming out the front at a frowning soundman/punter? Trying to find a happy medium without spending money...

I do hear people talk about this but it's not really a real thing. To create really focussed steered beam of audio you would have to start with something of a very short wavelength ... bout 70Khz or so. You can then use modulations of that at very high volume (non hearable except for bats) audio to create real audio we can hear in a very high focussed beam. This is how steerable PA works in some parts in places like museums and demonstrations.

What's really happening in most situations where there seems to be an issue is there's a lot of frequency content that a person is more sensitive to ... like 2K to 3.5K ish ... so rolling off a little of this upper mid will do the job. The trick here is to get on a long lead and hear yourself from further out. I've been on ears for nearly 15 years now but I remember some amps did the beam thing in certain rooms but a bit of EQ generally sorted it. Oddly it was sometimes a 4 x 12 or sometimes a 1 x 12 combo but in general too much upper mid

A little bit of guitar through the PA will help spread without being excessively loud. Any old mic will do for guitar, a £20 Behringer 58 clone is fine. Any PA that can handle vocals is fine for a bit of guitar as they have the same frequency content more or less.

One cab either side of the stage is another trick.

Angling the cab is another .... the higher frequencies are more directional so angling upwards may help.

SurfinSirFari · January 2023

Thanks all. It's only a 1x12 so I'll experiment wiggling it around next time out.

maharg101 · January 2023

Danny1969 said:
I do hear people talk about this but it's not really a real thing.

Respectfully, I have to disagree. Anyone who has dialled their amp in and experienced the tone they want from head height, say 5 foot above the speaker(s), then stepped out front and experienced icepick highs in "the beam" knows it exists. Especially when they then roam about the stage and find it generally sounds brilliant and fat off-axis, and thin on-axis.

I agree with much of what you say about eq, mic'ing, cabs on both sides of the stage, angling the amp etc.

For anyone mystified by my previous mention of Mitchell donuts, and wanting a zero-risk, minimal outlay solution to try, check out the following links:

http://www.stratopastor.org.uk/strato/amps/prii/speaker/foamdonut/foamdonut.html

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/speaker-directivity.470956/ (the thread that started it all)

https://www.efoam.co.uk/foam-cut-to-size-shapes.php

A tenner for enough foam to do several speakers.

Don't like it ? Doesn't work for you ? You're down a tenner.

Transforms your audience experience? Best tenner you ever spent.

"Your mileage may vary".

bobeffect · January 2023

Would like to tilt my mic'd up Zilla 1 x 12 at gigs but my amp head would need to be on a a tiltable platform or be able to be piggy backed like some Fender heads. The one available stand that can hold a head and cab tilted is not that great due to instability and the cab jack socket being obscured by the stand.

In the end its far easier to put it on the regular two beer crates and let it be part of the overall mix. Yes someone (or two) might get beamed by it but that's not the end of the world. Pointing directly at you is not pleasant after a couple of songs let alone two one hour sets.

If it's not mic'd up and you're trying to carry the room with it - then that could be more of a problem. I would (& did) use my vertical 2 x 12 in that case.

Sporky · January 2023

SurfinSirFari said:

Haha, take your point but I was wondering how the sound might disperse instead of having a tight beam deathray coming out the front at a frowning soundman/punter? Trying to find a happy medium without spending money...

It would depend very significantly on what the venue ceiling is like.

ESBlonde · January 2023

maharg101 said:

Haven't tried that. I'd imagine it would make for some variable results depending on the height and composition of the ceiling.

What's the motivation ?

My approach is to use Mitchell donuts !

The motivation was practicality, big 8 piece band all going through the PA with good wedge monitors. I sang so was front of stage and the horns were stood behind me. All in the days before decent alternatives to cabs and mics but apart from having my ears blown out by the trumpet it proved to be a wonderful stage sound and for FOH too. The band would struggle in some pub “stages” but we always played quieter and miced up for dispersion. One of the best and most consistent sounds I ever had.

maharg101 · January 2023

I have seen the excellent Robin Bibi a few times, and he simply places the gig bag for his strat in front of his amp

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Pub gigs- Cab flat on it's back?

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