Solid state vs Modellers - feel

melod · January 2023

I was wondering what is the verdict between quality solid state and modellers when it comes to “feel - under the fingers”.

I love my Yamaha THRII for so many reasons (including playing edrums through it!) but I crave a big clean sound with some weight under the fingers if you know what I mean.

How would something like Kemper or even the new universal audio pedal based amp sims compare to say quilter/Dv mark , setting aside the massive flexibility and options of the modellers (and various price ranges).

thank you!

ICBM · January 2023

I’m very sure now that the ‘feel’ is largely or entirely a function of power stage damping on the final output to the speaker. A solid-state power section has far higher damping than a valve one unless deliberately designed not to have - which from a purely technical electrical engineering point of view is a bad thing, so most aren’t - but if it is done, they can sound and feel remarkably valve-like. Whether the preamp is analogue or digital seems far less important.

Brio · January 2023

Try a BOSS GT1000, especially their own X model amps.
Very convincing.

HAL9000 · January 2023

I owned an Orange Crush Pro 60 a while back. Analogue rather than DSP, and IIRC had a ‘proper’ transformer. It had that valve feel and response, and I suspect most folk would not be able to tell that it was solid state. I only sold it because I fell out of love with that typical slightly breathy Orange sound.

monquixote · January 2023

For me it's all about having a proper guitar speaker in a decent sized cab in the room,

An AxeFX, GT-1000, Helix all sound basically indistinguishable (IMO) when recorded into your DAW, but the feel comes from having a proper cab moving some air.

Through headphones, or nearfield monitors it always seems to be more like listening to a record than a real amp regardless of the type of modelling.

I've gigged solid state amps and modellers with proper guitar cabs and assuming you are comparing to something that's not relying on loads of power amp saturation they can pretty good (certainly close enough for me).

I did A/B a Helix into a valve power amp into a cab with greenbacks vs the same, but with a SD Powerstage and for someone listening I think they would struggle to hear any difference, but there was some difference in feel where the valve amp was a bit squashier and was nicer to play.

I regularly use 4 cable to replace my DSLs preamp with a GT-1000 preamp and I think that is so close as to be to all intents and purposes the same.

ICBM · January 2023

monquixote said:

For me it's all about having a proper guitar speaker in a decent sized cab in the room,

An AxeFX, GT-1000, Helix all sound basically indistinguishable (IMO) when recorded into your DAW, but the feel comes from having a proper cab moving some air.

Through headphones, or nearfield monitors it always seems to be more like listening to a record than a real amp regardless of the type of modelling.

I've gigged solid state amps and modellers with proper guitar cabs and assuming you are comparing to something that's not relying on loads of power amp saturation they can pretty good (certainly close enough for me).

I did A/B a Helix into a valve power amp into a cab with greenbacks vs the same, but with a SD Powerstage and for someone listening I think they would struggle to hear any difference, but there was some difference in feel where the valve amp was a bit squashier and was nicer to play.

I regularly use 4 cable to replace my DSLs preamp with a GT-1000 preamp and I think that is so close as to be to all intents and purposes the same.

Exactly, and this adds to the thing about high vs low damping. Not just headphones, but FRFR cabs are intended to be - and do sound best - with modern high-damping power amps. Guitar cabs are not so much 'designed' as happy accidents that use technology best described as no more than mid-fi about seventy years ago! But work extremely well with low-damping amps of the sort that were the only ones available when the speakers were designed - and not only that, colour the sound and the response in an interactive way with the amp.

So although you may be able to reproduce a *sound* pretty accurately via a high-damping amp and a FRFR cab, it will not *feel* like a low-damping amp driving a 12" guitar speaker in a crude wooden box. Nor even sound like one when you listen to the dynamic response as well as the continuous - eg that resonant bass 'thump' you get from a 4x12". It may well sound the same to someone out in the audience or in a recording, but not to the player.

Nikc · January 2023

I have an Orange Crush Pro 60 and I use a HD PRO X line 6 Pod with it using the 4 cable method - feels great sounds great. Running the HD PRO X as the pre amp gives great results (I use A Soldano SLO crunch model) but ultimately I prefer the Orange Amp as is and use the PRO X for effects. I could use my pedal board (which is small) but I'm lazy and can't bothered to unplug everything at the moment

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Solid state vs Modellers - feel

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