EADGCF is more fun.

Vyn_Venal · December 2022

I'm not really a guitarist, I'm a bassist who just wants to have fun on guitar.

The stupid irregular third thing in standard tuning was annoying, so I just said sod it, and tuned it in 4ths all the way up, and honestly I think I'm just gonna do this from now on.

I get that I won't be able to play big 6 string chords as easily, but I don't really play them anyway because they are hard. Lol.

Just thought I'd check in with proper guitarists - any famous players who do this? Anyone else on here doing it? What are the disadvantages I'm missing?

I kind of like the idea of just doing my own thing, even if it's wrong, and my musical aesthetic is very much about not seeing limitations as limiting. All my favourite musicians are weird and janky.

Roland · December 2022

It depends whether you’re playing single notes or chords.

Vyn_Venal · December 2022

Roland said:

It depends whether you’re playing single notes or chords.

Single notes, double stops, and power chords.

Just what I do on bass really, only smaller.

LastMantra · December 2022

The main obvious disadvantage as far as I can see is you'd be learning differently to other guitar players so it might make things difficult if you wanted to play with others or learn other people's tunes. Might be easier for you now, but harder in the long run.
No reason why you can't make decent music like that though.

ArchtopDave · December 2022

This is known as quartal tuning. I know Deidre Cartwright tunes her guitar this way these days.

Vyn_Venal · December 2022

LastMantra said:

The main obvious disadvantage as far as I can see is you'd be learning differently to other guitar players so it might make things difficult if you wanted to play with others or learn other people's tunes. Might be easier for you now, but harder in the long run.
No reason why you can't make decent music like that though.

Vyn_Venal · December 2022

I've literally never learned someone else's bassline. I find it very difficult.

I just suss out what the root notes are, and improvise a bassline using the shapes I know sound OK.

Imagine if I ever present myself as a guitarist to play with other people, as long as I can do that, I will always be able to play the power chords, and the fills that work with them, even if I'm tuned differently.

Vyn_Venal · December 2022

ArchtopDave said:

This is known as quartal tuning. I know Deidre Cartwright tunes her guitar this way these days.

Thanks, I didn't know there was a name for it. Lol.

I googled her, and what she said about patterns and the fretboard making sense in terms of what you hear as interval is why I tried it.

The fact that there are working guitarists who've been doing it since the 80s tells me it's viable, so I guess I'm a quartal tuning guitarist now!

steamabacus · December 2022

Tom Quayle is probably the most well-known current user of fourths tuning (at least in internet world).

digitalkettle · December 2022

Alex Hutchings is also a fairly well known 4ths guy. I think most players who use it will lean towards jazzy/fusiony widdlage: it’s not much good for bashing out ‘Highway to Hell’ down The Royal Oak

viz · December 2022

ArchtopDave said:

This is known as quartal tuning. I know Deidre Cartwright tunes her guitar this way these days.

And Ant Law

sweepy · December 2022

Ashley Hutchings tunes that way too, Holdsworth is on record wishing that he’d done it yrs ago, the biggest drawback I can see is on barre chords where you can’t double up the E strings

Danny1969 · December 2022

I invented (or at least I think I did) a string tree that has 2 notches, one for regular B and a deeper one for C ... trouble is it has to go in a certain place and the groove has to be filed a certain depth to suit the string gauge and guitar it's going on.
I have an idea of using a cam shaped device that can be turned and set but haven't made one yet.

You can just install another string tree with a deeper angle to raise to C ... you can actually just tuck it under before the song or before the solo.

Trouble is the E is now a maj3 not a 4th but I quite like that.

JCA2550 · December 2022

Cowboy chords don't work as well in 4ths tuning, but it makes a lot of sense for playing a certain way especially with power chording and single line stuff on electric. Given the choice I'd love to always have an acoustic parked in DADGAD or CGCGAD a Strat tuned in Eb "standard" tuning, another electric in 4ths in addition to others in standard tuning/drop D. That's before I look at dusting off the 12 String, lap steel and Resonator.

Lestratcaster · December 2022

When I teach Coldplay's "The Scientist" to more advanced players this is the tuning I use for the chord shapes. The ringing C and F strings make a nice ringing sound to fill it out more. Sounds great. Though I don't use the tuning much other than that.

DLM · December 2022

Danny1969 said:

I invented (or at least I think I did) a string tree that has 2 notches, one for regular B and a deeper one for C ... trouble is it has to go in a certain place and the groove has to be filed a certain depth to suit the string gauge and guitar it's going on.
I have an idea of using a cam shaped device that can be turned and set but haven't made one yet.

You can just install another string tree with a deeper angle to raise to C ... you can actually just tuck it under before the song or before the solo.

Trouble is the E is now a maj3 not a 4th but I quite like that.

I remember a device similar to what @Danny1969 describes being advertised in US guitar mags in the late 80s/early 90s. Maybe I can dig out an old issue and post a pic.

JanekLubanski · December 2022

ArchtopDave said:

This is known as quartal tuning. I know Deidre Cartwright tunes her guitar this way these days.

Deidre Cartwright.......had a bit of a crush on her as a younger feller.

ArchtopDave · December 2022

JanekLubanski said:

ArchtopDave said:

This is known as quartal tuning. I know Deidre Cartwright tunes her guitar this way these days.

Deidre Cartwright.......had a bit of a crush on her as a younger feller.

She's still a good guitarist.... seen her several times in the last few years as she's the guitarist in ARQ ( Alison Rayner Quartet).

stickyfiddle · December 2022

I must admit my first thought was “is it more fun or is this just a bassist who doesn’t want to learn any new patterns?”

digitalkettle · December 2022

stickyfiddle said:

I must admit my first thought was “is it more fun or is this just a bassist who doesn’t want to learn any new patterns?”

Fresh eyes though...it's a valuable viewpoint.
A bass player reckoning up the string intervals: 4th, 4th, 4th, maj 3rd...wtf...why would you do that?!!

So it's a great way to keep bass players from transferring to lead

It's also a cracking idea *if* you can let go of traditional chord shapes.

EricTheWeary · December 2022

Stanley Jordan did this as well, I think popularised it for jazz/ jazz fusion playing.

You may remember Stanley from his cameo in the Bruce Willis film Blind Date. That’s how far this tuning can get you!

digitalkettle · December 2022

EricTheWeary said:

Stanley Jordan did this as well, I think popularised it for jazz/ jazz fusion playing.
You may remember Stanley from his cameo in the Bruce Willis film Blind Date. That’s how far this tuning can get you!

Amazing...I only remember when Brian from Family Guy got his cameo in the Bruce Willis film Die Hard:

GuyBoden · December 2022

There are loads of Fourth tuning players, even on this forum, even me for over 12 years, I won't go back to standard tuning.

Here's a link:

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/14221/

Here is a relaxing video showing my technique.

GuyBoden · January 2023

A discussion of 4th Tuning with Tom Quayle and Ant Law, both tune in 4ths.

Cranky · February 2023

EricTheWeary said:

Stanley Jordan did this as well, I think popularised it for jazz/ jazz fusion playing.
You may remember Stanley from his cameo in the Bruce Willis film Blind Date. That’s how far this tuning can get you!

It’s wild watching him play piano and guitar at the same time

GuyBoden · February 2023

Graham Young was a 4th tuning innovator, he has been teaching guitar in Leeds for years.

He was Tom Quayle's inspiration and many others, I've met quite a few of his acolytes over the years.

Graham Young is a great player too.

joeW · February 2023

I have been a little put off by p4 tuning and when i think why, my reasoning is mostly one of 'i'd have to go backwards a long way before making progress'. But, if I'm honest, its also because none of the players i like use it, and because i don't own a headless 7 string. These last reasons are pretty daft.

Put another way - If P4 was standard tuning and you suggested the current format, people would think you were barking.

So - am going to give it a try and see what I think. If it helps my comping sound like Mccoy Tyner, I will making it permanent.
I won't be able to start for a few weeks, but I'll respond if anything good comes of it.

PolarityMan · February 2023

I think Devin Townsend does something like this tuning up in 4ths from C

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