Query failed: connection to localhost:9312 failed (errno=111, msg=Connection refused). Dove, fake or legit? - Acoustics Discussions on The Fretboard
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UNPLANNED DOWNTIME: 12th Oct 23:45

Dove, fake or legit?

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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    @streethawk ; don't let me put you off mate. As @ICBM said, you can shim the saddle and that'd be OK.

    Mine is a bit different, a 2021 Dove Original, limited edition with keystone tuners, Orange label, uncompensated bone saddle etc......

    But like you, I'm planning to have the electronics removed. 

    :) 
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  • streethawkstreethawk Frets: 1628
    edited November 2022
    ICBM said:
    Mellish said:
    @streethawk ; if you remove the electronics, you may well need a new saddle.
    Oh blimey. I’ll likely leave the gubbins in and double check everything’s tied down.
    Or you can put a plain shim the same thickness as the pickup in. Contrary to popular belief it won't kill the tone, since the saddle is not resting on the floor of the slot now anyway!

    I removed the electronics from mine - I just don't like onboard preamps and battery pouches - but fitted a plain undersaddle piezo pickup (Fishman)... and it sounded *better*.


    @ICBM Well we were told they were horrendously bright all those years because - maple. Utter guff.
    And that the thick bridge killed the tone, and the big headstock and heavy tuners killed the tone, and the big pickguard killed the tone... all bollocks.


    First treatment on the bridge and board last night, significant change already. Won’t get much darker but looks like rosewood again. 


    You really should have turned the bridge saddle round the right way while you were at it .

    Forgot to mention, you won't be able to fit Klusons without conversion bushings - the headstock is bored to 10mm. I didn't like the big D-key nickel Grovers, so I replaced mine with the proper *chrome* keystone ones that are the closest to what was fitted on the original models in 1962 (Gibson switched from nickel to chrome plating for most parts in 1961).
    I used to sell parts (and may do again!) so have all the conversion malarky at hand. Just doing a bit of research here though and the early ones seem to come fitted with Kluson wafflebacks with the tulip/keystone style buttons. 



    They certainly look cool and I always associate Grover kidney tuners with solid bodies. Daft really but it's such a kooky guitar that I want to make it look even kookier. Love the daft red b/sides and pickguard. 

    I've not had the strings off yet btw, hence the saddle. Ordered some Elixir nanos to try out. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 69426
    Yes, the earliest ones had wafflebacks. That's actually why I like the keystone Grovers - they look very similar from the front of the guitar, even though not from the back - but directly replace the D-key Grovers with no evidence they're not original. The shape of the key matches the headstock inlay perfectly too :).

    Interestingly, despite the relatively small change in overall weight, I think the keystones sound better. (I did re-use the same strings.) I've noticed this with acoustics before - they often seem very sensitive to headstock mass. Klusons would be even lighter, although that doesn't always mean better still... I once had an old J-45 which came to me with Schaller M6s fitted - horrible, I replaced them with modern 'Kluson type' Schallers and the sound improved. The chap I sold it to replaced them again with the original pressed-steel 3-on-a-plate Klusons, and it sounded worse.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Dave_McDave_Mc Frets: 2022
    Wow very nice :D 
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  • streethawkstreethawk Frets: 1628
    edited November 2022
    Popped the new strings on this evening and boy oh boy, what a difference! Well that and putting the saddle in the right way around. 

    Minor fret polish while I was at it and some nut lube. Lovely. Piano like now and beautifully balanced. 
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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    @streethawk ; just shows you how different two Doves can be.

    Mine hates Elixir, doesn't mind Newtone Masterclass but loves anything D'Addario.

    I suspect the now hard-to+get Gibson strings are manufactured by D'Addario.

    :) 
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  • streethawkstreethawk Frets: 1628
    Mellish said:
    @streethawk ; just shows you how different two Doves can be.

    Mine hates Elixir, doesn't mind Newtone Masterclass but loves anything D'Addario.

    I suspect the now hard-to+get Gibson strings are manufactured by D'Addario.

    :) 
    These are just random strings I bought as a set of 3 for a decent price and their newness is causing the transformation. I’ll be experimenting with non coated strings etc over the coming months! 
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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    edited November 2022
    Mellish said:
    @streethawk ; just shows you how different two Doves can be.

    Mine hates Elixir, doesn't mind Newtone Masterclass but loves anything D'Addario.

    I suspect the now hard-to+get Gibson strings are manufactured by D'Addario.

     
    These are just random strings I bought as a set of 3 for a decent price and their newness is causing the transformation. I’ll be experimenting with non coated strings etc over the coming months! 
    If you've got them, use them. 

    As you go along, trying different strings, you'll soon find favourite ones. 

    I have favourite bridge pin materials, too. I know some members here say there's no difference in tone  but to me there is  
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  • ElectricXIIElectricXII Frets: 733
    Mellish said:
    @streethawk ; just shows you how different two Doves can be.

    Mine hates Elixir, doesn't mind Newtone Masterclass but loves anything D'Addario.

    I suspect the now hard-to+get Gibson strings are manufactured by D'Addario.

    :) 
    Elixirs are made by D'Addario too IIRC.
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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    edited November 2022
    Mellish said:
    @streethawk ; just shows you how different two Doves can be.

    Mine hates Elixir, doesn't mind Newtone Masterclass but loves anything D'Addario.

    I suspect the now hard-to+get Gibson strings are manufactured by D'Addario.

     
    Elixirs are made by D'Addario too IIRC.
    Never knew that mate. 

    Checked. Made by W. L. Gore. 

     
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  • ElectricXIIElectricXII Frets: 733
    Mellish said:
    Mellish said:
    @streethawk ; just shows you how different two Doves can be.

    Mine hates Elixir, doesn't mind Newtone Masterclass but loves anything D'Addario.

    I suspect the now hard-to+get Gibson strings are manufactured by D'Addario.

     
    Elixirs are made by D'Addario too IIRC.
    Never knew that mate. 

    Checked. Made by W. L. Gore. 

     
    Gore only applies the coating. They don't have a string making facility and buy them in. I worked for WL Gore for 20 years 
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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    @ElectricXII ;

    When Elixirs first came out they had coloured ball ends like D'Addario.

    Looking around, though (AGF, UMGF) I can't find any who say Elixirs are made by D'Addario..

    :)
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  • ElectricXIIElectricXII Frets: 733
    @@Mellish ;

    I left W L Gore in 2021, and at that time they definitely did not have a string winding factory. They almost certainly buy the strings in from another supplier. There's a pretty good chance it's still D'Addario.
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  • CrankyCranky Frets: 2109
    Beautiful, congrats!

     I had a chance at a Dove a few years back.  Really wish I had.
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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    @ElectricXII ;

    Who knows mate?

    :)
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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    @Cranky ; they're very good.

    Mine is as loud as you like, thunderous bass and ringing trebles. It's definitely a keeper. 

    :) 
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  • streethawkstreethawk Frets: 1628
    Hey don't knock these elixirs, I'm pleasantly surprised so far. Couple of days and they've bedded in nicely. 

    Not to be an outright nerd, but the second helping of conditioner has really sorted the rosewood out. Used Bigbends fretboard juice for the final dose. 






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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    @streethawk ; no-one *has* knocked Elixir, just a friendly debate over who the supplier could be...

    Ah, switched the saddle round. Notice a difference?

    :) 
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  • streethawkstreethawk Frets: 1628
    Mellish said:
    @streethawk ; no-one *has* knocked Elixir, just a friendly debate over who the supplier could be...

    Ah, switched the saddle round. Notice a difference?

    :) 
    Oh no I'm just saying, they are better than I expected.

    Re saddle: I think if the seller got the guitar back now he'd think twice about letting it go.  :)
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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    @streethawk ; no worries mate.

    Yes, they're good guitars. I swapped the factory bridge pins (Tusq I think) for good quality bone. To my ear it improved tone and volume. But YMMV. 

    :) 
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 24852
    Fwiw I had elixirs on it when it was with me and they sounded great. They’re garbage on Martins but genuinely suited the hifi vibe of the dove perfectly 
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 69426
    Mellish said:

    I swapped the factory bridge pins (Tusq I think) for good quality bone. To my ear it improved tone and volume. But YMMV. 

    :)
    I swapped mine for bone with abalone dots. It made no difference to the sound, but they look a lot nicer - which is much more important as we all know ;).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    edited November 2022
    @ICBM ; it's one of those you-hear-a-difference-or-you-don't.

    Mrs M heard no difference but our daughters did and so did I. Imaginary? I dunno but if you hear it

    then I guess you can say it's real - to you? I'm going to say it is, anyway ;) 

     
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  • droflufdrofluf Frets: 3144
    ICBM said:
    Mellish said:

    I swapped the factory bridge pins (Tusq I think) for good quality bone. To my ear it improved tone and volume. But YMMV. 

    :)
    I swapped mine for bone with abalone dots. It made no difference to the sound, but they look a lot nicer - which is much more important as we all know ;).
    Not saying that's the case here but it always annoys me when a manufacturer skimps on a detail like that. My Furch is a case in point: lovely woods, well finished, great workmanship, frets dressed and cheap plastic bridge pins.

    But all credit to Furch; I emailed them to ask the taper and dimensions of the pins and they replied by asking my address and sending a set of ebony pins
    Trading feedback thread:https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/172761/drofluf
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 69426
    Mellish said:
    @ICBM ; it's one of those you-hear-a-difference-or-you-don't.

    Mrs M heard no difference but our daughters did and so did I. Imaginary? I dunno but if you hear it

    then I guess you can say it's real - to you? I'm going to say it is, anyway ;) 

     
    It may depend on the particular pins, the guitar as well, or the strings. When I did it, I tested it carefully by swapping only three of the pins, so I could compare the sound of each string - E, G and A vs B, D, and E - then the opposite way round. (Using the same strings all the time.) I could hear no difference at all.

    But doing that with plastic vs brass pins, definite difference, so it's not to say that *no* bridge pin change makes any difference, and I couldn't rule out your particular ones doing - although I actually think bone and hard plastic are similar enough in hardness and density (unlike brass) for there to be no real mechanism for it.

    But whatever - the bone ones do look *much* nicer, and if that makes you feel better and play better, then it *is* better :).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    @ICBM ; 

    Yes mate, we go with what works for us. 

    String wise this Dove works best with D'Addario EJ16. Really rings, but if I put Thomastik on, say, nothing but meh. That's not to criticise Thomastik, they just don't work with this guitar. 

    The bone pins btw, FWIW ( I love 'em), came from JP Guitars. 






    :) 
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