Mastering Mastering

monquixote · October 2022

Every so often I bang out a track I want to share usually with my Polyend Tracker or similar.

Once I get it on my Laptop it generally sounds a bit weak so I’ll try and do a bit of “mastering” to chunk it up a bit, but I have basically no idea what I’m doing.

As a result I’ve generally just chucked it through Soundgoodizer on FL Studio which makes it sound loud and beefy, but generally a bit OTT and woofy so I’d like to try something a bit more sophisticated.

I’ve got a copy of Ozotope Elements 9, but while that makes the track really loud it seems to bring out a lot of really harsh frequencies which I really don’t like (Even when set to medium intensity) so I haven’t had any success with it.

Stuff I’ve got access to is:
FL Studio
Bitwig
Izotope Elements 9
The Baby Audio Bundle (IHNY2, Parallel Aggressor, Smooth Operator)

I also don’t mind buying something if it’s going to be an easy route to decent results.

To be clear I’m not trying to become a mastering engineer I just want a simple process to give weak sounding tracks a bit of girth and punch with a few simple levers to shape things.

MajorDude · October 2022

PM’d

It might be worth looking at iZotope Tonal Balance

octatonic · October 2022

Please stop calling it mastering- it isn't mastering.

Loads of people bung Waves L2/L3 on a track and say it is mastered.
It just isn't.

You want to make your tracks louder- ok, so you do that with gain, EQ and compression/limiting.
It is impossible to give blanket statements, because each track will require something different, but here are a few ideas.

What are you targeting as a mix level?
Is it around -3dB, -1dB or -0.3dB?

What is your mix process?
Are you bussing things together and compressing/EQing as a group?
If so what are you grouping together?

The reason a lot of mixes sound overblown is people are being too heavy handed with compression.
That doesn't mean I don't sometimes crush the hell out of things, I do.
But you pick your moments.

Pick a couple of instruments you want to be prominent (for me it is kick up, vocals up).

When I am doing an ITB mix (although I mostly mix off hardware) I tend to reach for a couple of plugins- McDSP ML8000, UA Massive Passive (although my hardware unit sounds better), Empirical Labs Big Freq, Fabfilter Pro MB, Pro Q, Pro C.

If you don't have great monitoring and a good sounding room then you will also need a decent metering program (although they are useful even when you do have great monitors and a great room).

There is no easy route to success.
Practice to mix well.
Feel free to post something, or PM me something and I will take a look.

If I was to show you a screen shot of a mix I've done you would be surprised how few plugins I use but probably even more surprised at the amount of automation, esp level automation.

You can do it all with your DAW's stock plugins- I would be wary of trying to buy your way out of this problem.

One thing I see a lot of novice mixers avoiding is high passing tracks.
It is essential- not necessarily on everything but certainly on anything where the low end will get too crowded.
Novice mixers also tend to make their mixes bass heavy- probably because of room modes in the low end (due to an untreated room).

monquixote · October 2022

octatonic said:

Please stop calling it mastering- it isn't mastering.
Loads of people bung Waves L2/L3 on a track and say it is mastered.
It just isn't.

You want to make your tracks louder- ok, so you do that with gain, EQ and compression/limiting.
It is impossible to give blanket statements, because each track will require something different, but here are a few ideas.

What are you targeting as a mix level?
Is it around -3dB, -1dB or -0.3dB?

What is your mix process?
Are you bussing things together and compressing/EQing as a group?
If so what are you grouping together?

I'm referring to it as mastering rather than mixing as I'm essentially starting with stereo mix downs from my Polyend Tracker which sound a bit weak as it's a device that's a bit limited in the options for EQ, master compression etc.

I know that's stretching the definition a bit

Though I'd eventually like to get better at producing great mixes I don't want to boil the sea and I'm trying to focus on the compositional elements at the moment so I'm really just trying to get the 80 / 20 couple of tricks for improving a sketch I want to share on Soundcloud rather than try and get to something that's potentially releasable etc.

It might be that for that purpose Soundgoodizer, or LANDR is all that's appropriate, but I was wondering if there was something a bit better that wouldn't be massively complex to set up.

chrisv · October 2022

This is great. And free. A producer friend of mine has just used it on a bunch of recordings that have had national radio play on the BBC.

https://www.bandlab.com/mastering?lang=en

octatonic · October 2022

monquixote said:

octatonic said:

Please stop calling it mastering- it isn't mastering.
Loads of people bung Waves L2/L3 on a track and say it is mastered.
It just isn't.

You want to make your tracks louder- ok, so you do that with gain, EQ and compression/limiting.
It is impossible to give blanket statements, because each track will require something different, but here are a few ideas.

What are you targeting as a mix level?
Is it around -3dB, -1dB or -0.3dB?

What is your mix process?
Are you bussing things together and compressing/EQing as a group?
If so what are you grouping together?

I'm referring to it as mastering rather than mixing as I'm essentially starting with stereo mix downs from my Polyend Tracker which sound a bit weak as it's a device that's a bit limited in the options for EQ, master compression etc.

I know that's stretching the definition a bit

Though I'd eventually like to get better at producing great mixes I don't want to boil the sea and I'm trying to focus on the compositional elements at the moment so I'm really just trying to get the 80 / 20 couple of tricks for improving a sketch I want to share on Soundcloud rather than try and get to something that's potentially releasable etc.

It might be that for that purpose Soundgoodizer, or LANDR is all that's appropriate, but I was wondering if there was something a bit better that wouldn't be massively complex to set up.

Sure, I get what you are trying to do.
I did something similar recently, which was to make an album using just outboard synths, most of it modular synth.

Here are some screenshots of one track's session.
I can't show you everything in one screenshot, because you'd miss the automation.

Image: https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/313413361_3004711109828809_4556723809326989985_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ijdUWWIhT40AX_gsuDS&tn=5LjrG66GGWnomGBr&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&oh=00_AfB7RSWhiBKV944InmQpV4hi-zjN-zKe5bB3N0mDHUTC6g&oe=6364230D

Image: https://scontent-lhr8-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/313044996_3004711376495449_584433383135181087_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1WAxHtTJctYAX_gVsRA&_nc_oc=AQk44rCsW3TyDFVGIKgjNUrSim3rQjsmhoeJyQVx3bOuxq6YETkf2B0Y6u5dbweB5ec&tn=5LjrG66GGWnomGBr&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-2.xx&oh=00_AfAN2ahTCTBPemjDDIKonUmy_kJDOECr7vwRE9imveb-Rg&oe=6363CB23

You can hear it here:

Some tracks have no processing on them at all, because I worked the sounds in the analogue realm to fit together.
Beyond that, what you see on the master bus is really just Channel EQ (mild shaping), Pro Q (making everything below 100hz mono) and ML8000 (compression, limiting, with ceiling at -1dB).

Yes it could be louder but I am leaving that to the mastering engineer.

It is how you combine the sounds that matters.
And yes, there is 34 tracks in total, but never that much playing at once.

fastonebaz · October 2022

I enjoyed reviewing those mix images. Great to see how the Pros set things up. Cheers

monquixote · October 2022

I had an interesting session last night with IZotope Elements.

I think I understand it better now after watching a few tutorials especially keeping the amount of gain reduction it's producing reasonable and using a character compressor before it if I want more of an effect.

Question: I'm doing this at night with decent headphones, but is this something that you really need to do on monitors?

octatonic · October 2022

monquixote said:

I had an interesting session last night with IZotope Elements.

I think I understand it better now after watching a few tutorials especially keeping the amount of gain reduction it's producing reasonable and using a character compressor before it if I want more of an effect.

Question: I'm doing this at night with decent headphones, but is this something that you really need to do on monitors?

Short answer: Probably.

Long answer:

Making critical decisions on headphones is problematic for a number of reasons but you might also find that listening on your monitors in your room is also not enough.
There is a reason why people spend shitloads of money on monitoring and room acoustics, which is to mitigate the sound of the room and the sound of the monitors as much as possible.

The goal is 'translation'- you want your mix to sound as good as it can in a number of different environments and that involves a lot of trade offs even when everything is close to ideal.

So mixing on headphones mitigates the room, but it brings in other issues the main one being issues relating to bass, because your headphones aren't close to being flat, will be less than flat at different frequencies which you are making critical decisions about and as soon as you listen to it in a different way there will be issues.

I'm in the process of ripping my studio apart, redoing the room acoustics based on a plan drawn up by a consultant acoustician. I already have a Trinnov room correction system, which is great but doesn't solve all the issues I have at 60hz and 120hz, where I have a room mode in the listening position.
We are dropping the ceiling above the mixing position by 20cm, moving a wall by 20cm and angling bass traps in the corners of every wall without a door, putting in a cloud.
Why are we doing this?
Because I want my mixes to translate better than they are and I know the specific problems I have because I measured the room.

This is what I meant earlier about blanket statements- it is like saying 'doctor I am sick, make me better'.
Ok, well, what are the symptoms, how long have you been sick, is it a cold, is it cancer? Who knows?
It might be that taking an aspirin fixes you right up, or it might not.

Or (maybe a bit closer to home) 'There is a bug in the code, can you fix it'?
Well... suuuuuure but first I have some questions...

I know you aren't trying to mix professionally so you don't need to do as much as someone else who is but the principles don't change. Identify the problem and then fix it.
Often employing experts to help you to fix it.

There has been an amateurising of the mixing world over the last 30 years or so, because it is fairly cheap to build a mix rig and have a go. Hell, it is how I started. I am entirely self taught, which is to say I read everything I could and obsessed about it for 30 years. One thing I know to be true- Strapping X across Y will not make your mixes sound good.
But mixing is fairly easy- it just takes experience and taste.
I tend to think that you either have taste or you don't.
Experience.... that takes time.

Your experiments with Izotope last night are a very positive step in the right direction.
Work with what you have- make your mixes sound as good as they can with Izotope and then move on.

This reminds me of the 'Old engineer and the Hammer'

The Graybeard engineer retired and a few weeks later the Big Machine broke down, which was essential to the company’s revenue. The Manager couldn’t get the machine to work again so the company called in Graybeard as an independent consultant.
Graybeard agrees. He walks into the factory, takes a look at the Big Machine, grabs a sledge hammer, and whacks the machine once whereupon the machine starts right up. Graybeard leaves and the company is making money again.
The next day Manager receives a bill from Graybeard for $5,000. Manager is furious at the price and refuses to pay. Graybeard assures him that it’s a fair price. Manager retorts that if it’s a fair price Graybeard won’t mind itemizing the bill. Graybeard agrees that this is a fair request and complies.
The new, itemized bill reads….
Hammer: $5
Knowing where to hit the machine with hammer: $4995

You need to figure out where to hit the hammer.

Snap · November 2022

monquixote said:

I had an interesting session last night with IZotope Elements.

I think I understand it better now after watching a few tutorials especially keeping the amount of gain reduction it's producing reasonable and using a character compressor before it if I want more of an effect.

Question: I'm doing this at night with decent headphones, but is this something that you really need to do on monitors?

I struggle with both mixing and mastering, not ashamed as it's skilled work. I enjoy it though.

I tend to use Soundtoys Effects Rack and Ozone Elements and maybe another EQ in my mastering chain. I've found that once you start to dig into Elements, it is a very nifty bit of kit. The mastering assistant is a useful tool for me - helps me understand what various bits are doing. It's often a good start point.

After years of trying to get good at this, with mixed results, I can say that for me, a simple mastering chain is best.

And, it's obvious, but if the underlying mix isn't good, no mastering will polish the turd sufficiently.

I'd happily spend ages on mixing, rather than actual recording, find it really interesting and satisfying.

monquixote · November 2022

Snap said:

monquixote said:

I had an interesting session last night with IZotope Elements.

I think I understand it better now after watching a few tutorials especially keeping the amount of gain reduction it's producing reasonable and using a character compressor before it if I want more of an effect.

Question: I'm doing this at night with decent headphones, but is this something that you really need to do on monitors?

I struggle with both mixing and mastering, not ashamed as it's skilled work. I enjoy it though.

I tend to use Soundtoys Effects Rack and Ozone Elements and maybe another EQ in my mastering chain. I've found that once you start to dig into Elements, it is a very nifty bit of kit. The mastering assistant is a useful tool for me - helps me understand what various bits are doing. It's often a good start point.

After years of trying to get good at this, with mixed results, I can say that for me, a simple mastering chain is best.

And, it's obvious, but if the underlying mix isn't good, no mastering will polish the turd sufficiently.

I'd happily spend ages on mixing, rather than actual recording, find it really interesting and satisfying.

I've been making progress slowly.

I think I was expecting Ozone to be like Maximus on FL which does everything you might imagine in a master bus processor and mastering tool.

I think now I see it as just the final step in the chain to tweak the final levels and do a little bit of peak limiting. It's much better.

I've been quite enjoying Baby Audio Smooth Operator as a dynamic EQ. It's very cool.

monquixote · December 2022

This is my first full house track in Bitwig.

I'd be really interested in feedback on how it's mixed and what could be better.

octatonic · December 2022

Sounds great.
Is this a remix or all original?
Has a Bonobo-ish vibe.

monquixote · December 2022

octatonic said:

Sounds great.
Is this a remix or all original?
Has a Bonobo-ish vibe.

Cheers Jim, means a lot from you. I flipping love Bonobo.

It's all 100% me.

Bitwig + VCollection + Sound Toys

octatonic · December 2022

Very strong effort.
Do more, you've got it.

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