Advice please re Groovebox/Sampler/Sequencer.

jimkehoe · October 2022

Facts first - I am a 60 year old basic guitarist who wants to have a standalone box of tricks that I can record on, do basic sampling and use in a basic way to put down bass and some synth stuff, despite not being a keyboard player. I did have an AKAI MPC ONE which I loved the sounds and capabilities of but could not get my head round putting it all together/ the workflow.

My go to DAW is Garageband which I understand and can work with but I want something standalone unit.

Any suggestions ?

monquixote · October 2022

Unfortunately I think the MPC is probably the obvious choice along with the Force.

Roland Verselab is another option but targeted more at singers.

An Elektron octatrak would be way more complex.

The MC-707 is quite limited in recording time.

An SP-404 MK2 is a possibility if you want something simple but it's very limited compared to an MPC.

jimkehoe · October 2022

monquixote said:

Unfortunately I think the MPC is probably the obvious choice along with the Force.

Roland Verselab is another option but targeted more at singers.

An Elektron octatrak would be way more complex.

The MC-707 is quite limited in recording time.

An SP-404 MK2 is a possibility if you want something simple but it's very limited compared to an MPC.

Thanks. Beginning to think I should have persevered and found some better online guides

joeW · October 2022

I have a Native Instruments Maschine plus. I like it, but it’s not great standalone and has a learning curve no easier than the MPC.

jimkehoe · October 2022

joeW said:

I have a Native Instruments Maschine plus. I like it, but it’s not great standalone and has a learning curve no easier than the MPC.

Thanks Joe. I think that's my issue - I am not patient or clever enough to learn how to use them properly:)

octatonic · October 2022

jimkehoe said:

Facts first - I am a 60 year old basic guitarist who wants to have a standalone box of tricks that I can record on, do basic sampling and use in a basic way to put down bass and some synth stuff, despite not being a keyboard player. I did have an AKAI MPC ONE which I loved the sounds and capabilities of but could not get my head round putting it all together/ the workflow.

My go to DAW is Garageband which I understand and can work with but I want something standalone unit.

Any suggestions ?

If the MPC One is too difficult then all the others will be just as or more difficult.
With electronics you cannot buy your way into understanding them.
Work with what you have, until you get it- buying more stuff will confuse you further.

The *best* all in one box in my view is the Deluge.
Aside from the Elektron gear it is the most difficult to get your head around.
With capability comes complexity.

My advice is stick with Garageband- if you need it portable, use a laptop.

Stay the hell away from Elektron.
They are awesome but if you are struggling with an MPC One then the Elektron workflow isn't something you will enjoy.

jimkehoe · October 2022

octatonic said:

jimkehoe said:

Facts first - I am a 60 year old basic guitarist who wants to have a standalone box of tricks that I can record on, do basic sampling and use in a basic way to put down bass and some synth stuff, despite not being a keyboard player. I did have an AKAI MPC ONE which I loved the sounds and capabilities of but could not get my head round putting it all together/ the workflow.

My go to DAW is Garageband which I understand and can work with but I want something standalone unit.

Any suggestions ?

If the MPC One is too difficult then all the others will be just as or more difficult.
With electronics you cannot buy your way into understanding them.
Work with what you have, until you get it- buying more stuff will confuse you further.

The *best* all in one box in my view is the Deluge.
Aside form the Elektron gear it is the most difficult to get your head around.
With capability comes complexity.

My advice is stick with Garageband- if you need it portable, use a laptop.

Stay the hell away from Elektron.
They are awesome but if you are struggling with an MPC One then the Elektron workflow isn't something you will enjoy.

Fair comment. I think maybe I will get another MPC One and make a more determined effort to get to grips with the basics.

danishbacon · October 2022

I really like Maschine. The manual, if you have time and patience to follow page by page, is well written and designed to get you through the motions as you develop a track. It's massive though (no pun intended).

My experience with elektron was a bit like trying to bash a hole through a brick wall, with my head.

jimkehoe · October 2022

danishbacon said:

I really like Maschine. The manual, if you have time and patience to follow page by page, is well written and designed to get you through the motions as you develop a track. It's massive though (no pun intended).

My experience with elektron was a bit like trying to bash a hole through a brick wall, with my head.

Is Maschine stand alone? How do you edit samples - Is That the one without a screen?

danishbacon · October 2022

jimkehoe said:

danishbacon said:

I really like Maschine. The manual, if you have time and patience to follow page by page, is well written and designed to get you through the motions as you develop a track. It's massive though (no pun intended).

My experience with elektron was a bit like trying to bash a hole through a brick wall, with my head.

Is Maschine stand alone? How do you edit samples - Is That the one without a screen?

I’ve had both, stand-alone and hooked up version. There’s not a whole lot in it in terms of difference. Hooked up version you have more versatility in access to Native Instrument VSTs.

I use the one with screens, MK3. Sample editing is fairly straightforward once you get the hang of it. What kind of sample manipulation are you looking to do?

jimkehoe · October 2022

Just drum loops, simple bass or synth lines or just song samples from recorded material

octatonic · October 2022

jimkehoe said:

Just drum loops, simple bass or synth lines or just song samples from recorded material

Laptop/computer.
Only use a groove box where the workflow will enhance the output- dance/electronic music is a good example.
Computers are better in other scenarios.

Or try an iPad.

jimkehoe · October 2022

octatonic said:

jimkehoe said:

Just drum loops, simple bass or synth lines or just song samples from recorded material

Laptop/computer.
Only use a groove box where the workflow will enhance the output- dance/electronic music is a good example.
Computers are better in other scenarios.

Or try an iPad.

I understand what you're saying and you're probably right but I find the I-pad too fiddly and you need audio interface/separate speakers etc etc and my Mac is in a music room/office that doubles as my wife's workspace so is now really convenient.

octatonic · October 2022

jimkehoe said:

octatonic said:

jimkehoe said:

Just drum loops, simple bass or synth lines or just song samples from recorded material

Laptop/computer.
Only use a groove box where the workflow will enhance the output- dance/electronic music is a good example.
Computers are better in other scenarios.

Or try an iPad.

I understand what you're saying and you're probably right but I find the I-pad too fiddly and you need audio interface/separate speakers etc etc and my Mac is in a music room/office that doubles as my wife's workspace so is now really convenient.

Sure, I agree- I don't like an iPad.

In that case you are back to an MPC.
You will need to learn how to use it though.
There isn't much out there that is easier.

jimkehoe · October 2022

octatonic said:

jimkehoe said:

octatonic said:

jimkehoe said:

Just drum loops, simple bass or synth lines or just song samples from recorded material

Laptop/computer.
Only use a groove box where the workflow will enhance the output- dance/electronic music is a good example.
Computers are better in other scenarios.

Or try an iPad.

I understand what you're saying and you're probably right but I find the I-pad too fiddly and you need audio interface/separate speakers etc etc and my Mac is in a music room/office that doubles as my wife's workspace so is now really convenient.

Sure, I agree- I don't like an iPad.

In that case you are back to an MPC.
You will need to learn how to use it though.
There isn't much out there that is easier.

I think you're right - A bit more patience, perseverance and determination needed.

DrHungry · October 2022

Two leftfield options - you could go for 2 smaller, simpler and cheaper boxes, one for synth and one for sampling, like a Novation circuit tracks and a korg electribe sampler or a Novation circuit rhythm and your Volca synth of choice. You'd need one midi cable and one or two audio cables so not too much hassle (compared to a standard guitarist's pedalboard anyway!).

I bought @monquixote 's circuit tracks earlier this year and it's been brilliant, very useable interface with some surprisingly deep controls for a screenless device. I've loved having the freedom from my computer and being able to sit on the sofa with headphones on and jam away.

The other leftfield choice might be a teenage engineering OP-1 if it's not altogether too weird for you. It's not going to give a studio quality polished result obviously but for creativity and experimentation in one convenient box it looks pretty awesome.

jimkehoe · October 2022

DrHungry said:

Two leftfield options - you could go for 2 smaller, simpler and cheaper boxes, one for synth and one for sampling, like a Novation circuit tracks and a korg electribe sampler or a Novation circuit rhythm and your Volca synth of choice. You'd need one midi cable and one or two audio cables so not too much hassle (compared to a standard guitarist's pedalboard anyway!).

I bought @monquixote 's circuit tracks earlier this year and it's been brilliant, very useable interface with some surprisingly deep controls for a screenless device. I've loved having the freedom from my computer and being able to sit on the sofa with headphones on and jam away.

The other leftfield choice might be a teenage engineering OP-1 if it's not altogether too weird for you. It's not going to give a studio quality polished result obviously but for creativity and experimentation in one convenient box it looks pretty awesome.

Thanks. Some interesting suggestions. More research.

monquixote · October 2022

If recording guitar is not important to you then the circuit tracks is the easiest way to get into electronic music

jimkehoe · October 2022

monquixote said:

If recording guitar is not important to you then the circuit tracks is the easiest way to get into electronic music

Unfortunately guitar is the only instrument I can play and understand even at a basic level so anything I do will need to be able to incorporate guitar.

andy_k · October 2022

I'm recently getting a lot of my stuff consolidated / upgraded to a new ( to me ) laptop based studio, I am no pro, but have been tinkering for a fair few years.
IMO, we don't really need hardware these days - nice if we have the space, but not required to make music.
I know that is a bold statement, but hear me out.
I'm using Reaper, having tried PT, Logic and a few others, Reaper just seems to fit all the brief for me, there is nothing that can't be done with it.
I use a plugin called Unify, by Pluginguru, which has been developed over the last 3 years? maybe, it hosts any VST based plugin on your system, along with it's own built in sampler / midi sequencer / synth / FX, and it allows any mix to be saved as pre sets, including embedded instances of itself.
Quite hard to explain how fully featuered it is, but basically it is a single plugin that can play an entire composition via a single keyboard by having mapped areas and latched keys - pretty amazing really.
It actually allows embedded VSTs to perform better than if they were directly inserted on a track, something to do with multi thread performance.
So with Reaper, and Unify I have an entire studio within 2 pieces of software, and I use this to build up a track and the idea is that I can then do guitar recording as an overdub, I usually record an effected sound-either an amp recording or a pedal chain, along with a DI, and I have the Slate subscription which includes Overloud amp sims, I don't really exploit the subscription as much as I should because it relies on Ilok, but I do tend to build up tracks from audio stems, so once they are bounced I can use Fabfilter stuff for eq and compression on any machine.
Last couple of weeks have been a bit of an eye opener really, how little stuff I use, but how powerful it all is, I'm getting great results with an i5 laptop and a Korg nanokontrol, and am just upgrading that to a nanostudio for the extra knobs and faders ( all very useful in both Reaper and Unify )
A good set of headphones, or a simple Focusrite IO is all that I need on top of all that, plus a few free vsts like Spitfire LABS and BBCSO, and there's not much I can't do ( I am no pro though )
But mixing audio to a professional standard, and making new ideas is a breeze.

jimkehoe · October 2022

andy_k said:

I'm recently getting a lot of my stuff consolidated / upgraded to a new ( to me ) laptop based studio, I am no pro, but have been tinkering for a fair few years.
IMO, we don't really need hardware these days - nice if we have the space, but not required to make music.
I know that is a bold statement, but hear me out.
I'm using Reaper, having tried PT, Logic and a few others, Reaper just seems to fit all the brief for me, there is nothing that can't be done with it.
I use a plugin called Unify, by Pluginguru, which has been developed over the last 3 years? maybe, it hosts any VST based plugin on your system, along with it's own built in sampler / midi sequencer / synth / FX, and it allows any mix to be saved as pre sets, including embedded instances of itself.
Quite hard to explain how fully featuered it is, but basically it is a single plugin that can play an entire composition via a single keyboard by having mapped areas and latched keys - pretty amazing really.
It actually allows embedded VSTs to perform better than if they were directly inserted on a track, something to do with multi thread performance.
So with Reaper, and Unify I have an entire studio within 2 pieces of software, and I use this to build up a track and the idea is that I can then do guitar recording as an overdub, I usually record an effected sound-either an amp recording or a pedal chain, along with a DI, and I have the Slate subscription which includes Overloud amp sims, I don't really exploit the subscription as much as I should because it relies on Ilok, but I do tend to build up tracks from audio stems, so once they are bounced I can use Fabfilter stuff for eq and compression on any machine.
Last couple of weeks have been a bit of an eye opener really, how little stuff I use, but how powerful it all is, I'm getting great results with an i5 laptop and a Korg nanokontrol, and am just upgrading that to a nanostudio for the extra knobs and faders ( all very useful in both Reaper and Unify )
A good set of headphones, or a simple Focusrite IO is all that I need on top of all that, plus a few free vsts like Spitfire LABS and BBCSO, and there's not much I can't do ( I am no pro though )
But mixing audio to a professional standard, and making new ideas is a breeze.

Thanks Andy - Sounds great - I'll do some research.
I was just coming round to the conclusion that an Akai Force may be the ticket - But maybe not

hollywoodrox · October 2022

I always lust after those Yamaha QY 10 / 20 etc from the 90s , they fit in a case the size of a vhs cassette ,are satisfyingly retro & there are videos on YouTube on how to use one or the other

https://youtu.be/d5i66uPOe8g

jimkehoe · October 2022

hollywoodrox said:

I always lust after those Yamaha QY 10 / 20 etc from the 90s , they fit in a case the size of a vhs cassette ,are satisfyingly retro & there are videos on YouTube on how to use one or the other

https://youtu.be/d5i66uPOe8g

Bit too retro for me.

andy_k · October 2022

jimkehoe said:

andy_k said:

I'm recently getting a lot of my stuff consolidated / upgraded to a new ( to me ) laptop based studio, I am no pro, but have been tinkering for a fair few years.
IMO, we don't really need hardware these days - nice if we have the space, but not required to make music.
I know that is a bold statement, but hear me out.
I'm using Reaper, having tried PT, Logic and a few others, Reaper just seems to fit all the brief for me, there is nothing that can't be done with it.
I use a plugin called Unify, by Pluginguru, which has been developed over the last 3 years? maybe, it hosts any VST based plugin on your system, along with it's own built in sampler / midi sequencer / synth / FX, and it allows any mix to be saved as pre sets, including embedded instances of itself.
Quite hard to explain how fully featuered it is, but basically it is a single plugin that can play an entire composition via a single keyboard by having mapped areas and latched keys - pretty amazing really.
It actually allows embedded VSTs to perform better than if they were directly inserted on a track, something to do with multi thread performance.
So with Reaper, and Unify I have an entire studio within 2 pieces of software, and I use this to build up a track and the idea is that I can then do guitar recording as an overdub, I usually record an effected sound-either an amp recording or a pedal chain, along with a DI, and I have the Slate subscription which includes Overloud amp sims, I don't really exploit the subscription as much as I should because it relies on Ilok, but I do tend to build up tracks from audio stems, so once they are bounced I can use Fabfilter stuff for eq and compression on any machine.
Last couple of weeks have been a bit of an eye opener really, how little stuff I use, but how powerful it all is, I'm getting great results with an i5 laptop and a Korg nanokontrol, and am just upgrading that to a nanostudio for the extra knobs and faders ( all very useful in both Reaper and Unify )
A good set of headphones, or a simple Focusrite IO is all that I need on top of all that, plus a few free vsts like Spitfire LABS and BBCSO, and there's not much I can't do ( I am no pro though )
But mixing audio to a professional standard, and making new ideas is a breeze.

Thanks Andy - Sounds great - I'll do some research.
I was just coming round to the conclusion that an Akai Force may be the ticket - But maybe not

I just received a notification for the saturday night Unify livestream, ( he does one every saturday ) I think it is around 8pm our time, he is going to be demoing new features coming soon in v1.9, and showing off some stuff for a new library of pre-sets.
Well worth a look to see what Unify is capable of, it is a very deep piece of software.
The software itself costs around $79, and libraries are coming in at around $30-$40, but there are free Unified libraries available for many of the free software synths, the paid for Unify libraries are worth the money for the drum samples and pre-sets alone.

monquixote · October 2022

Totally agree that hardware is completely unnecessary these days, but it's really fun and creative to play with.

The copy of Bitwig I have is basically an infinitely configurable studio and synth you could use just that and make pretty much anything.

personalnadir · October 2022

Have a look at Koala Sampler. Runs on iOS or Android.

https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/koala-sampler/id1449584007

This won’t be to most peoples taste, but here a track I did just laying on the couch using Koala and sampling myself.
https://on.soundcloud.com/a7uMxzBXFC2pz2y26

(Probably ran it through some plugins after the fact)

I when I want better audio quality I connect an iPad to my interface and use that. Again, not the world’s greatest track, but this is all from a Gameboy sampled via the Interface
https://on.soundcloud.com/aNPp37WQnhaCDUpc6

Apparently Koala sampler is inspired by the Boss Dr Sample SP‑303, so if you like the workflow and want to go down the hardware route that might be a place to start, likewise if you’ll know what to avoid if you don’t.

jimkehoe · October 2022

personalnadir said:

Have a look at Koala Sampler. Runs on iOS or Android.
https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/koala-sampler/id1449584007

This won’t be to most peoples taste, but here a track I did just laying on the couch using Koala and sampling myself.
https://on.soundcloud.com/a7uMxzBXFC2pz2y26

(Probably ran it through some plugins after the fact)

I when I want better audio quality I connect an iPad to my interface and use that. Again, not the world’s greatest track, but this is all from a Gameboy sampled via the Interface
https://on.soundcloud.com/aNPp37WQnhaCDUpc6

Apparently Koala sampler is inspired by the Boss Dr Sample SP‑303, so if you like the workflow and want to go down the hardware route that might be a place to start, likewise if you’ll know what to avoid if you don’t.

Great advice- Thanks.

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Advice please re Groovebox/Sampler/Sequencer.

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