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UNPLANNED DOWNTIME: 12th Oct 23:45

Cheap 12 string options?

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JJ72JJ72 Frets: 41
edited September 2022 in Acoustics
I'm on the look out for a cheap 12 string ( 2-3 songs in a set so nothing expensive ).....anybody got any recommendations?
There's a vintage ( probably 70s) Eko Ranger in my local antique shop that plays nice  but I feel its probably overpriced at £270? 
Not sure whether to go newer or older ...I know all about the string tension issues causing bridge problems and tops to bow so with this in mind. am I safer going newer( I e epiphone , fender, eko)?
Looking  to spend no more than £300

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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    edited September 2022
    Have a look at Guild's F-2512E. Around £449 if you can stretch that budget.

    Or Harley Benton for  £233 at Thomann UK

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  • TheMadMickTheMadMick Frets: 213
    Can I second the Guild. Sometimes the dealers have an offer that coudl take it closer to youre preferred price.

    We bought one about 6 months ago and I was quite impressed.
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  • JJ72JJ72 Frets: 41
    I probably would stretch to the Guild if I thought it was decent but I've read some less than glowing reviews of it....would love to hear positive views on it.
    I do have a similar price range Guild D240E 6 string that's great for the money so dont see why the F2512 shouldn't be similar quality 

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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    I'd say try an F2512E if you can. It's the only way that you'll really know if it's for you :) 
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  • TanninTannin Frets: 4394
    £270 for an Eko Ranger? Strewth! Is "local antique shop" your secret code for "Essex Studios"? I'd pay $270 AUD for one if it was in good nic, but only because of sentimental reasons, it's probably not actually worth that as an instrument - and $270 AUD is about £160. 

    I have no experience with 12-strings in that price range, so I'd just look at the usual suspects. 
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  • stufisherstufisher Frets: 612
    Not sure if you are focused only on acoustic but you could contact @dazzajl ; ... I think he's still trying to move on a lovely 12 string
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  • JJ72JJ72 Frets: 41
    Tannin said:
    £270 for an Eko Ranger? Strewth! Is "local antique shop" your secret code for "Essex Studios"? I'd pay $270 AUD for one if it was in good nic, but only because of sentimental reasons, it's probably not actually worth that as an instrument - and $270 AUD is about £160. 

    I have no experience with 12-strings in that price range, so I'd just look at the usual suspects. 
    Yeah I thought the price was high for the Eko although it did play great...never seen.one that high before.

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  • JJ72JJ72 Frets: 41
    stufisher said:
    Not sure if you are focused only on acoustic but you could contact @dazzajl ; ... I think he's still trying to move on a lovely 12 string
    Yes its an acoustic 12 I'm after but thank yiu anyway
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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    Eko are very decent. I cut my gigging teeth on one. 

    I can't recall the model but it did the job and it would've been  inexpensive back then for a 16-year-old who didn't have much brass.

    IIRC I ordered it from Bells of London. That takes me back!

    :) 
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  • guitarjack66guitarjack66 Frets: 1397
    I'd like to add a 12 string acoustic to my collection in the not too distant future. From hearsay I haven't heard too many good thinks about Eko though. A cheaper new one is likely to be well enough made for most purposes. Harley Benton or a faithful Yamaha would be my own first viewings.
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  • TanninTannin Frets: 4394
    The classic Eko 12 is unique. 

    FOR:
    * Solid and tough. If you can't play a tune on it you can always use it to bridge crevasses and drive your snowmobile over.
    * Well-built in its fashion. It will play in tune (by 1970s standards, which admittedly isn't very) and the action won't have moved  by more than a fraction of a millimetre in the 50 years i's been standing up to the massive pull of 12 strings. 
    * Remarkably pleasant tone. Dead but somehow not dead. 
    * Good for playing late at night and early in the morning without waking up the household. 
    * Flattering to the player. Listeners close by will notice how smooth your inexpert playing is, with none of those annoying  ill-controlled volume and tone variations less-than-expert players make. (Listeners further away won't notice anything bad because they won't be able to hear you.)
    * Innovative (and very sensible) heel-less bolt-on neck allows much better upper fret access. (Some models only.)
    * Curiously pleasant to play. 


    AGAINST: 
    * Heavy
    * Quiet. Very little volume. 
    * Where cheap laminated guitars sound as if they are made of three-ply, an Eko sounds as though it's made out of industrial grade seven-ply. (Probably because it is.)
    * Will never be good enough to play Stairway to Heaven on. Jimmy Page used an Eko to record nearly everything he used an acoustic 12 for on the various famous Led Zep albums back in the day. At that stage of his career, Page could afford to buy any guitar in the world, and for that matter ambitious guitar makers used to bail him up after shows and give him their best instruments hoping that he might play one on stage. But he liked the Eko.
    * Awful tuners. I think @ICBM said somewhere that you can sort that out by lubricating them. But maybe I misremember. You could always just replace them. 
    * Overpriced at £270. 

    DISCLAIMER. My first real guitar was an Eston (rebadged Eko) 12-string. I had that guitar for maybe 15 years before it got stolen. I played an identical one a couple of years back and my memory wasn't playing me false. Yep: they are weird, they are peculiar, they are not half bad and if I see another one I just might buy it. 


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  • KittyfriskKittyfrisk Frets: 16332
    ^  Spot on. My Eko Ranger XII is the one guitar I'd never part with.
    Always strung to playing pitch & is almost always in tune no matter how long it is left between playing.
    Somewhat unique in that was never factory fitted with the distinctive Eko scratchplate.
    Is it worth £270 as a guitar, I'd say yes, but is that a fair price today, no not really.

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  • JJ72JJ72 Frets: 41
    Any idea what would be a fair price for the Eko?
    It seems to be very hard to date but I would guess at a late 70s model ( although I don't really know the ko timeline and visual pointers to date the model).
    It does seem to be in vgc but my thoughts are no more than £200-£220?
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  • KittyfriskKittyfrisk Frets: 16332
    Have a look at some of the examples for sale here https://www.vintageguitarsforsale.co/eko/

    Whatever you do, don't go too far down the list or you will find examples from someone in Twickenham that specialises in Eko 'Rat custom conversions'  B)



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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    edited September 2022
    Great post @Kittyfrisk.

    Those pics brought back fond memories. Many gigging friends I knew in the late 60s through the 70s had an Eko. They were good dependable guitars.

    From the pics, I can't see the model I had, but I relied on it exclusively until I got my first Gibson in the winter of 1979/80.
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  • BillDLBillDL Frets: 5615
    Mellish said:
    Eko are very decent. I cut my gigging teeth on one. 

    I can't recall the model but it did the job and it would've been  inexpensive back then for a 16-year-old who didn't have much brass.

    IIRC I ordered it from Bells of London. That takes me back!

    :) 
    Here are two scans of the Bell catalogue from 1982 showing the Eko and Eko Rio Bravo 6 and 12 string acoustics so you can reminisce further.



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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 69426
    Tannin said:

    * Awful tuners. I think @ICBM said somewhere that you can sort that out by lubricating them. But maybe I misremember. You could always just replace them.
    That's the one thing you *can't* do easily - the machineheads have a unique post spacing and no aftermarket tuners will fit without at the very least drilling the headstock for individual ones.

    Luckily, unless they're truly knackered, it's possible to replace the individual gears if simply lubricating them properly doesn't work.

    That - and all the other good things about them - said, I think £270 is overpriced even today, but not *that* much. Prices are going up so much across the board that I don't think £250 is excessive for a really good one, and... it's only another twenty quid. There's not much else you can get that's better for less.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • maltingsaudiomaltingsaudio Frets: 2910
    edited September 2022
    Can thoroughly recommend a Fender F55 12 string had mine from new in 1975 and still going very strong one here on the bay for £280 which I think is possibly a bit over priced for a 40 year old guitar which cost £69 new then it does qualify as a vintage Fender these days! The Hiscox case is probably worth £100 on its own, just get the seller to stick a stamp on it!
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195100679922?hash=item2d6ce81ef2:g:1Q0AAOSw2pJic5Ec&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoFVUgqGiTLdjCCx42LvSFpX5s0xuSuCoKf2BdhM7o8KBnZ1ilNE5pQU2SDL7BUSbC6aYJxgf1aQcYksWul%2BApHwUsWHuPymY8TRPrYjWksN1M58mWblunGIjIq4wxSdGgkhcE8ENdBoiyYAAxlTOT0ae4kp0j%2BWefw1HynK%2FAPxNawyKyc%2Bf2rxydv1QLlMalBah8lGF9323qtNlNgYhBZc%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7LsgpPsYA
    www.maltingsaudio.co.uk
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  • JJ72JJ72 Frets: 41
    maltingsaudio said:
    Can thoroughly recommend a Fender F55 12 string had mine from new in 1975 and still going very strong one here on the bay for £280 which I think is possibly a bit over priced for a 40 year old guitar which cost £69 new then it does qualify as a vintage Fender these days! The Hiscox case is probably worth £100 on its own, just get the seller to stick a stamp on it!
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195100679922?hash=item2d6ce81ef2:g:1Q0AAOSw2pJic5Ec&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoFVUgqGiTLdjCCx42LvSFpX5s0xuSuCoKf2BdhM7o8KBnZ1ilNE5pQU2SDL7BUSbC6aYJxgf1aQcYksWul%2BApHwUsWHuPymY8TRPrYjWksN1M58mWblunGIjIq4wxSdGgkhcE8ENdBoiyYAAxlTOT0ae4kp0j%2BWefw1HynK%2FAPxNawyKyc%2Bf2rxydv1QLlMalBah8lGF9323qtNlNgYhBZc%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7LsgpPsYA
    I had already seen this on ebay ( thanks for the heads up though)  and is one that I would definitely be interested in but unfortunately, it's puckup only and I'm a few hundred miles away from the seller
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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    Thanks @BillDL :+1:
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  • PALPAL Frets: 465
    12 string guitars can be problematic at the best of times even the expensive ones. My friend had a really nice 
      Rickenbacker 360/12 but got fed up with restringing & tuning and sold it. He now uses a Digitech 12 string pedal.
       You could also use a pitch shifter or chorus. It's not exactly the same but it works.
       I have had an EKO 12 it was just a pain so sold it for about £150.
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  • JJ72JJ72 Frets: 41
    PAL said:
    12 string guitars can be problematic at the best of times even the expensive ones. My friend had a really nice 
      Rickenbacker 360/12 but got fed up with restringing & tuning and sold it. He now uses a Digitech 12 string pedal.
       You could also use a pitch shifter or chorus. It's not exactly the same but it works.
       I have had an EKO 12 it was just a pain so sold it for about £150.
    I'm still presently undecided about getting a cheap Eko or trying out the digitech mosaic. 

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  • stimpsonslostsonstimpsonslostson Frets: 5282
    I'd look at Vintage brand 12s. 
    They do a Giltrap signature 12 and a Brett one. 
    I had the Brett one for a few years, it was excellent. 

    You may be able to land either for under £300. 
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  • droflufdrofluf Frets: 3144
    stimpsonslostson said:
    I'd look at Vintage brand 12s. 
    They do a Giltrap signature 12 and a Brett one. 
    I had the Brett one for a few years, it was excellent. 

    You may be able to land either for under £300. 
    I’d second that; I’ve got the Paul Brett 12 string and it’s great. It does have a smaller body - around 00 or parlour - though which was what I wanted but may put some people off. 
    Trading feedback thread:https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/172761/drofluf
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