Is what most of us practice basically useless?

koneguitarist · October 2022

roberty said:

99% sure those players you mention are/were hot on theory @koneguitarist. You're more likely to play 'safe' if you're constantly in a guessing game with the basic diatonic scales

Not sure if Hendrix or Clapton were ever hot on theory, pretty sure SRV and Beck were’nt either. Page probably read music due to session work in early 60s.
generally classical and Jazz musicians have in the past ‘trained’ as musicians, whilst rock, Blues and Country for instance learnt as they gigged constantly round the clubs.
More guitarists these days go to classes in their chosen field, but I wonder whether we will lose the ability of someone different coming along and changing guitar like EVH did 44 years ago, and no one seems to have done since.

roberty · October 2022

koneguitarist said:

roberty said:

99% sure those players you mention are/were hot on theory @koneguitarist. You're more likely to play 'safe' if you're constantly in a guessing game with the basic diatonic scales

Not sure if Hendrix or Clapton were ever hot on theory, pretty sure SRV and Beck were’nt either. Page probably read music due to session work in early 60s.
generally classical and Jazz musicians have in the past ‘trained’ as musicians, whilst rock, Blues and Country for instance learnt as they gigged constantly round the clubs.
More guitarists these days go to classes in their chosen field, but I wonder whether we will lose the ability of someone different coming along and changing guitar like EVH did 44 years ago, and no one seems to have done since.

Hendrix was a sideman for the biggest R&B singers in the US. He must have known his way around a chord chart and understood different voicings

Either way, people don't become geniuses by not learning theory. It's not a healthy attitude to have. No one ever learnt theory and regretted it. It's like Muhammad Ali boxing with his hands by his side. You're not gonna be him

koneguitarist · October 2022

I don’t say don’t learn, I think the mark of a great player is not defined by his knowledge of musical theory.

Lots of great players learn by copying what others before them have played and building on it not studying musical theory. Learning musical theory is not gonna stop a great player becoming better, like McCartney and co learning as they went from George Martin and having a great ear for music changes.

There was a great anecdote from Dave Lee Roth in a magazine called Making Music years ago where he was asked who was better, Eddie or Steve?

His answer was not surprising (to me anyway) how he described them.

He said Eddie was with him in beginning learning all theses cover songs, Zeppelin, Hendrix, Free etc etc whereas Steve studied and can play anything that comes into his head with amazing technique etc.
the interviewer said “cut the crap, who’s best.” DLR said Eddie.

He was one of a kind, I am not a tapping and tremolo widdling fan, but he changed the world of guitar like no one since!

DaveJames · November 2022

When I was young I really wanted to play the solo of feel the benefit 10cc, I never thought I would achieve it but I eventually learned it, I really loved that solo. So what's the problem you ask, it took me so long to learn it, listening to every phrase over, and over again, I'm now bloody sick of it.

Kilgore · November 2022

I studied guitar at the University of YouTube. I skipped most of the theory stuff and just put my fingers on the fretboard where the dudes told me too.

Practice consists of learning songs and noodling. I've never got my head around this practising scales lark. I don't know what modes are. I'm not proud of my lack of knowledge, it's rather lamentable but I just can't be arsed.

I can play well enough that non guitarists are left with the impression that I know what I'm doing. Real musicians would see through me straight away.

I mostly play acoustic fingerstyle blues so I can do the bass, rhythm and lead bits for a three chord song without the inconvenience of playing with other people, which is ideal for an introvert like myself.

goldpony · November 2022

[first post newbie!]

I've been playing guitar for 33 years, took me a year or two to get to 'punk band' level - power chords, a few barre chords and a couple of half arsed scales, but then I feel like I've spent 31 years basically stuck. I'm forever noodling around but if ever there was an example of how you can play an instrument for 10,000 hours and not improve then it's me. Unfocussed practice, no goals, no method, forever hitting the wrong notes and chords. I've actually got good 'technique' but If you asked me to play 'happy birthday' I'd balls it up by hitting the wrong notes in a Les Dawson style.

Anyway, I recently picked up the Tim Stewart rhythm guitar course on Jam Play and it's been amazing. I've only really done the first two lessons -

major triads: root position/1st inv/2nd inv on strings 123, 234, 345

minor triads: root position/1st inv/2nd inv on strings 123, 234, 345

Taking my time to really learn and practice this simple concept over the last month is opening up the guitar in a way I thought was forever out of my reach. Being able to play for example a G major triad in multiple positions all over the neck is a revelation... I feel like another 20 years and I could be quite good!

Different things work for different people but it's taken me a LONG time to realise a little bit of theory goes a long way.

Sporky · November 2022

koneguitarist said:

But if you go to school on guitar and learn all the correct things to play

Then you missed the point of theory.

Its clear you are basing your anti-theory position on ignorance of what it's actually about. I have grade 6 theory; at no point does a little theory-demon in my head tell me what I have to play next.

Neilybob · November 2022

My issue is I know some theory like how to work out modes but I've never applied it to my playing. I think this is mainly because I just play covers and never bother to learn why I'm playing those notes.

Sporky · November 2022

There's a lot of guitar playing that needs no formal understanding of theory. That's fine.

I'm just weary of this oft-repeated nonsense that understanding how music works somehow forces you to play things you don't want to - and it's always pushed by people with no understanding of theory. It's ignorance shouted from the rooftops.

Handsome_Chris · November 2022

Sporky said:

There's a lot of guitar playing that needs no formal understanding of theory. That's fine.

I'm just weary of this oft-repeated nonsense that understanding how music works somehow forces you to play things you don't want to - and it's always pushed by people with no understanding of theory. It's ignorance shouted from the rooftops.

Kinda echos what I was told about music theory. Music theory is there to help you describe what you have written: not to dictate what should be written.

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Is what most of us practice basically useless?

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