What’s the current state of real-time guitar to MIDI?

RichAC · September 2022

From time to time I enjoy messing around with soft synths in Reason (a DAW). I’ve got a little MIDI controller keyboard, but I’d really like to control synths with my guitar.

Reason has a very useful feature where I can record guitar audio and then convert it offline to MIDI - which works well for programming monophonic parts. It doesn’t allow for real-time playing of soft synths though.

Does guitar to MIDI still require those big bolt-on Roland G2K pickups, or have things moved on a bit? Is there a box I can plug into that will take my regular pickup output and convert it to MIDI in real time? That would be ace, especially if it worked polyphonically.

TheBigDipper · September 2022

Following...

andy_k · September 2022

Couple of things spring to mind.....
Reaper has Reapitch ( or is it Reatune ? ) which detects pitch, and allows pitch to midi conversion, works ok for monophonic lines, but I came across a plugin called MidiGuitar 2, which does the same thing polyphonically, and allows all sorts of VST style instruments to be played via a guitar signal.
Midigutar 2 cost around $79, when I paid for the licence, it works as a stand alone application, as well as a VST plugin in a DAW, and I have had a fair bit of use out of it. The licence includes a bass version too, but last time I looked it hadn't been updated in a while.
Latency is just about bearable, and there will be inevitable clean up required, but it is useable for simple lines, and is good for expanding ideas.

RichAC · September 2022

andy_k said:

Couple of things spring to mind.....
Reaper has Reapitch ( or is it Reatune ? ) which detects pitch, and allows pitch to midi conversion, works ok for monophonic lines, but I came across a plugin called MidiGuitar 2, which does the same thing polyphonically, and allows all sorts of VST style instruments to be played via a guitar signal.
Midigutar 2 cost around $79, when I paid for the licence, it works as a stand alone application, as well as a VST plugin in a DAW, and I have had a fair bit of use out of it. The licence includes a bass version too, but last time I looked it hadn't been updated in a while.
Latency is just about bearable, and there will be inevitable clean up required, but it is useable for simple lines, and is good for expanding ideas.

Thanks @andy_k - MIDI Guitar 2 looks promising. It looks like you can now only buy it in a bundle with the bass version for $149. There’s a free trial, so I’ll test drive it when I get back home from hols and see how it works with Reason and GarageBand (and on my ageing Mac Mini) and might have a splurge if it works OK.

Funkfingers · September 2022

Pitch to MIDI note recognition and conversion remains the stumbling block.

For guitaristic playing feel, granular technology such as is used in Electro-Harmonix 9 series pedals is less dissatisfying.

If you ever feel like putting present day technology into perspective, have a go on a Roland GR-700 - especially the lower two wound strings.

It is still valid to use the Carlos Alomar approach of six high E strings and program the pitch offsets into a GM-70.

blobb · September 2022

Sonuus do this

Musicwolf · September 2022

Funkfingers said:

Pitch to MIDI note recognition and conversion remains the stumbling block.

The problem, as I understand it, is that the conversion requires at least one full wave cycle to recognise the frequency (note). The low E on a guitar has a fundamental frequency of 82.41Hz (although we don't just hear the fundamental). That's 12msec for a complete cycle which most people can detect.

RichAC · September 2022

Musicwolf said:

Funkfingers said:

Pitch to MIDI note recognition and conversion remains the stumbling block.

The problem, as I understand it, is that the conversion requires at least one full wave cycle to recognise the frequency (note). The low E on a guitar has a fundamental frequency of 82.41Hz (although we don't just hear the fundamental). That's 12msec for a complete cycle which most people can detect.

That makes sense. I could probably live with a little bit of latency.

RichAC · September 2022

blobb said:

Sonuus do this

Thanks @blobb / that’s the sort of hardware box I had in mind, although I wouldn’t need the audio interface aspect (not sure if it can work independently) and it’s monophonic rather than polyphonic. I think the MIDI Guitar software mentioned above will be first port of call, but this might be a useful backup.

if I was controlling real synths, the Sonuus box would be ideal, though.

octatonic · September 2022

I've been using this for ages and it is great.

https://www.jamorigin.com/

RichAC · September 2022

Here’s a review by Sound on Sound from 2014 of the original version of MIDI Guitar. It covers a little of the technical aspects (they note that the latency is consistent across strings). They heaped praise upon it… I’m definitely going to give this a go.

Roland · September 2022

Last week I came across this hex pickup https://www.cycfi.com/product/nu-multi-6/ and this GK integration unit https://www.cycfi.com/product/nexus-gk-gk-set/. Someone on the Fractal forum uses it having ditched the Roland GK system.

blobb · September 2022

RichAC said:

blobb said:

Sonuus do this

Thanks @blobb / that’s the sort of hardware box I had in mind, although I wouldn’t need the audio interface aspect (not sure if it can work independently) and it’s monophonic rather than polyphonic. I think the MIDI Guitar software mentioned above will be first port of call, but this might be a useful backup.

if I was controlling real synths, the Sonuus box would be ideal, though.

Next level up is to try using Beebo. It can do pitch to midi and send the midi it generates to either some of the internal modular synth blocks or use the output midi channel to control external stuff - hardware or midi into PC for softsynth. Sounds great in principle, and it can do it, but it's an explorers ecosystem so you might have to do some thinking about how to get it set up the way you want.

I've also had good results with jamorigin 'in the box'. Eventually, I think Beebo will be the way to do this reliably.

timhulio · September 2022

RichAC said:

blobb said:

Sonuus do this

Thanks @blobb / that’s the sort of hardware box I had in mind, although I wouldn’t need the audio interface aspect (not sure if it can work independently) and it’s monophonic rather than polyphonic. I think the MIDI Guitar software mentioned above will be first port of call, but this might be a useful backup.

if I was controlling real synths, the Sonuus box would be ideal, though.

Yeah the Sonuus never really worked. A GK2/3 tracks better, but that's still got slight latency, and all that gear is a FAFF

guitarmangler · September 2022

octatonic said:

I've been using this for ages and it is great.

https://www.jamorigin.com/

This one. It’s excellent.

RichAC · September 2022

I spent a bit of time last night watching YouTube vids about Jam Origin MIDI Guitar 2. The demos are very impressive. I’ll definitely be checking out the free demo when I get time.

Sporky · September 2022

You can get very good tracking with a GK and an ancient GI10 if you string the guitar with 9s. As in just 9s. All tuned to high E. It sounds weird acoustically, of course, but it works brilliantly.

RichAC · September 2022

Quick update: I installed the demo of Jam Origin MIDI Guitar 2, and had a quick play. It was easy enough to get it working in GarageBand following the instructions on their website. Triggering is… OK. I didn’t play with any of the options, so I may be able to improve it. It worked brilliantly for ambient swooshy synth noises, but the accurate timing needed to play a drum kit proved troublesome. This may be my technique, of course.

Stratavarious · September 2022

My Boss GT unit has a note to midi feature that is OK on higher notes and can be quite expressive. Mono only. Too much of a faff to use a lot.

Might explore plugins

Stratavarious · September 2022

RichAC said:

Quick update: I installed the demo of Jam Origin MIDI Guitar 2, and had a quick play. It was easy enough to get it working in GarageBand following the instructions on their website. Triggering is… OK. I didn’t play with any of the options, so I may be able to improve it. It worked brilliantly for ambient swooshy synth noises, but the accurate timing needed to play a drum kit proved troublesome. This may be my technique, of course.

At least in a daw you can quantise the notes to tempo/drums

axisus · September 2022

RichAC said:

Quick update: I installed the demo of Jam Origin MIDI Guitar 2, and had a quick play. It was easy enough to get it working in GarageBand following the instructions on their website. Triggering is… OK. I didn’t play with any of the options, so I may be able to improve it. It worked brilliantly for ambient swooshy synth noises, but the accurate timing needed to play a drum kit proved troublesome. This may be my technique, of course.

I think you are asking a lot to record drums via guitar! I can't recall, can you quantize midi drums in Garageband?

axisus · September 2022

octatonic said:

I've been using this for ages and it is great.

https://www.jamorigin.com/

Thanks for the reminder! I downloaded an old version of that some years ago but never actually tested it. Must revisit!

RichAC · September 2022

axisus said:

RichAC said:

Quick update: I installed the demo of Jam Origin MIDI Guitar 2, and had a quick play. It was easy enough to get it working in GarageBand following the instructions on their website. Triggering is… OK. I didn’t play with any of the options, so I may be able to improve it. It worked brilliantly for ambient swooshy synth noises, but the accurate timing needed to play a drum kit proved troublesome. This may be my technique, of course.

I think you are asking a lot to record drums via guitar! I can't recall, can you quantize midi drums in Garageband?

Well, it was mostly by way of experimenting.

You can quantise recorded MIDI in GB, and after doing so it sounded OK. The vague plan was to record kick and snare in one pass, and then go back and add hats, toms, cymbals etc in separate passes as well. It basically worked OK, and would work better if I map the drum trigger notes to more playable combinations.

susbemol · September 2022

Easiest to get going with: Jamorigin MIDI Guitar 2 (v3 is due some time soon, apparently)
Best/fastest tracking: Fishman TriplePlay

That's only my personal opinion, of course, so YMMV.

Over the years, I have had pretty much every hardware/software guitar synthesizer or pitch to MIDI product and, apart from the two listed above, I only kept a BOSS GP-10 for guitar/synth modelling and my beloved analogue GR-300.

andy_k · September 2022

In my experience, MG2 works well enough for aprpeggiated stuff, and chords, the problems come when you get carried away with how it sounds, and have to clean up and quantise a long section.
I have no problems with short ideas, and provided you map out the instrument, drums would be fine.
I'd rather use any old guitar in standard tuning to get something going, than have a dedicated MIDI guitar, with six high e strings to use, via a midi pickup.
That's just me though, I have a session set up in Reaper that will record a DI, a midi and a VST instrument at the same time, for the times when that is what I want to do--which isn't often.
It's fun when it works though.

sweepy · September 2022

I found Jam origin actually tracked better than the roland system, yes, your technique has to adapt but that is not necessarily a bad thing

GuyBoden · September 2023

I use Jam origin Midi Guitar 2, I think you need a decent VST plugin to do the software justice, because some VST plugins track faster than others.

Also, I think you need a decent fast computer, that's setup for the fastest latency and performance it can achieve. The audio interface needs to be good too.

I have got better tracking/performance from Midi Guitar 2 as a standalone app, than when it's wrapped in another audio software as a plugin.

Using Midi Guitar 2 with most free VST software isn't a great idea if you want to achieve good results either.

JayGee · September 2023

Funkfingers said:

It is still valid to use the Carlos Alomar approach of six high E strings and program the pitch offsets into a GM-70.

That’s an absolute genius idea!

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What’s the current state of real-time guitar to MIDI?

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