Squeak, squeal, scratch!

Tannin · August 2022

String squeal. Squeaking. Left-hand noise. Fingering noise. Fretting squeal. Whatever name you give it, how do you control it?

Left-hand technique helps. By worrying less about the notes you are playing and more about the way you are moving between them, you can dramatically reduce it. But it is one more distraction from the task of hitting the notes you want in the way you want, an extra complexity in the already-complex task of playing a guitar to the best of your ability.

Whole-of-string coatings (Elixir Polyweb and Nanoweb, possibly one or two other makes) help a lot. With these the entire string is dipped in the coating after manufacture. But they feel soapy and the sound quality suffers.

Winding-only coatings (where the winding wire is coated first and then wound onto the core - this is the normal way of making a coated string) vary a lot. A few makes help almost as much as Elixirs do. With some, the coating seems to make little or no difference, and with the majority, it has a small but noticeable benefit.

String lubricants help, but only a little. A liberal coating of GHS Fast Fret reduces squeal on new strings by .. oh ... maybe 20%. Not much but worth having. Is it worth repeating the application? If so, how often? There are other brands of string lubricant, are they all the same? Which ones are best?

Different guitars have different mounts of squeal. It is worst with very responsive instruments with a lot of natural top end. My luthier-built Mineur is a bugger for it. My baritone, not so much, others in between.

The texture of the winding certainly has an effect. A rough-feeling, scratchy string generally squeals like a stuck pig. Some surfaces seem to be extra-grippy and create more squeal - examples include Optima gold-coated (a bit more than, say, phosphor bronze) and Pyramid silver-coated (a lot more).

The size of the winding seems to have an effect too. Coarse windings apparently have more squeal, fine-pitched windings less. Newtone strings, for example, have a lovely smooth, almost slinky feel because of their surface finish, and they have very little squeal. Ernie Ball Earthwoods have a very coarse finish, and they are super-squealers.

Polishing the strings reduces squeal. If you take a foam rubber nail buffer (buy one from the chemist for some spare change) and spend a few minutes buffing the strings, it makes little or no difference to the sound (you are only polishing the top of the string, most of it stays rough), but significantly reduces the squeal. (I only ever did this once, with a set of Earthwoods. Must try it again.)

OK, so that is everything I know about left-hand squeal. What else is there to learn about it?

Dave_Mc · August 2022

Definitely noticed quite a bit recently on my Dowina (I didn't notice it as much at the start, not sure why that is!)- like you said, it's very responsive and bright. I guess I might try some less-bright strings when I restring it, maybe that will help a little. Or practise more.

BillDL · August 2022

You mentioned Ernie Ball Earthwoods. I've only tried them a couple of times. Nice clear sound, but the coarse windings and resultant string squeak was annoying to the point that I tried exactly what you did but with a little piece of 800 grit wet & dry emery paper. It worked a bit, but I decided not to buy those strings again. Way back in the 80s when I wasn't earning much money and strings were comparatively more expensive, I used to do this in combination with a wipe down with Methylated Spirit and an application of GHS Fast-Fret to prolong the life and rejuvinate the sound of the strings on my electric guitars.

I now use Thomastik-Infeld SB111 Spectrum Bronze 11-52 on most of my acoustics. With those strings the 11s respond and feel more like 12s but they feel softer and the windings are finer. I use one of those sponges intended for shining up the dashboard and interior plastics in cars to wipe my strings. They are impregnated with something slick like silicone that does reduce the finger noise on the bass strings a bit, but on particularly responsive guitars for a while after application it can sometimes make the two treble strings squeal as you slide your finger.

When all is said and done though, finger noise really is just a part of acoustic playing. As long as it's not excessive, I don't mind hearing it from time to time and it happens to some of the best acoustic players.

TheBigDipper · August 2022

Tannin said:

String squeal. Squeaking. Left-hand noise. Fingering noise. Fretting squeal. Whatever name you give it, how do you control it?

Left-hand technique helps. By worrying less about the notes you are playing and more about the way you are moving between them, you can dramatically reduce it. But it is one more distraction from the task of hitting the notes you want in the way you want, an extra complexity in the already-complex task of playing a guitar to the best of your ability.
<snip>

As someone who started off on classical at a young age, I don't think fretting a note accurately (no fret buzz) or getting to it quietly (no squeals) is a distraction. It's part of the technique, the music demands it and the sound you produce is better for it.

Not that I'm claiming any wonderful outcomes personally when I play other types of guitar. My steel string playing can sometimes be full of seagull noises, and I can't get the right rhythm into the music without sliding to the next note (etc.) which unavoidably produces it.

Different music benefits from using different hand positions (dropped wrist vs thumb over) and using different fretting points (tip vs pad) on the fingertips. But it's not something many of us think about or even notice in our own playing. But sometimes it wouldn't hurt... :-)

Mellish · August 2022

Enter the party pooper

Mate, I'd say don't worry about it. Hit that note, get that chord down clean and that's all that matters.

Sure, I hear it when I'm gigging but no-one seems bothered about it. If *they're* happy, *I'm* happy, right?

Tannin · August 2022

Mellish said:

Mate, I'd say don't worry about it. Hit that note, get that chord down clean and that's all that matters.

Not when Mrs Tannin is in the room!

She is remarkably tolerant of my hobby obsession, playing at (nearly) all hours of day or night, and nearly always in the same room (both because we have a small house and because we like to be together), but she grumbles about string squeak if it is excessive. I don't mind that - it reminds me to keep one eye on my technique and clean it up a bit. I guess I fall part-way between your view and @TheBigDipper's view - I can happily tolerate a certain amount of squeak, and for some tunes it's a part of the whole vibe, but in other places and contexts, it gets on my nerves.

I'm getting some good tips and insights from this thread. Good work, Fretboard people.

guitarjack66 · August 2022

Probably not quite the thread but boy those Elixir strings are expensive. I'm not denying that might be the best out there but I'm on a tight budget and I needed two sets of strings. I had to plump for two packs of Martins because they were around the same price as one pack of Elixir strings. Does perceived quality make a difference to squeaking much?

PS,when I saw the title of the thread I thought you'd overheard one of my practice sessions!

Winny_Pooh · August 2022

The polishing trick is interesting, will have to remember that.

I never seem to notice squeak until I have to work on a recording I've done.

I use Newtones exclusively, IIRC Ernie Balls and Rotosound were the worst for squeak.

TheBigDipper · August 2022

guitarjack66 said:

Probably not quite the thread but boy those Elixir strings are expensive. I'm not denying that might be the best out there but I'm on a tight budget and I needed two sets of strings. I had to plump for two packs of Martins because they were around the same price as one pack of Elixir strings. Does perceived quality make a difference to squeaking much?

PS,when I saw the title of the thread I thought you'd overheard one of my practice sessions!

I use Elixirs on electrics. They last 3-4 times as long as standard strings for my corrosive hands. For acoustics I'm a Newtone boy. And they're pretty long lasting if you wash your hands before playing and wipe the strings down afterwards. I used to use Eixirs on acoustics, but Newtones sound better for my ears and guitars.

Tannin · August 2022

Winny_Pooh said:

I use Newtones exclusively, IIRC Ernie Balls and Rotosound were the worst for squeak.

My experience agrees with this @Winny_Pooh. Newtones are markedly "squeaky-clean" (so to speak) - easily the quietest uncoated string I've ever tried. (Not counting weird stuff like flat wounds.) Sadly, they also have a very treble-heavy tone which I don't care for at all. Ernie Ball Earthwoods are probably the second-worst squeakers of the many brands I've tried, with Rotosounds missing out on a podium finish but comfortably in the top 10.

Tannin · August 2022

guitarjack66 said:

boy those Elixir strings are expensive. I'm not denying that might be the best out there but I'm on a tight budget and I needed two sets of strings. I had to plump for two packs of Martins because they were around the same price as one pack of Elixir strings.

They are indeed. A set of Elixirs will last about twice as long as a set of Martins, sometimes more. And they don't squeal! (Much.) On the other hand, Elixirs sound like Elixirs, while Martins sound like actual proper strings.

Jokes aside, there is no quality difference between Elixir and Martin, both are excellent strings in their own different ways. But for value, if you like the Martins, look out for Darco. These are the exact same strings from the same factory in a plainer package, and you'll save a pound or two a set.

Dave_Mc · August 2022

Tannin said:

Mellish said:

Mate, I'd say don't worry about it. Hit that note, get that chord down clean and that's all that matters.

Not when Mrs Tannin is in the room! She is remarkably tolerant of my hobby obsession, playing at (nearly) all hours of day or night, and nearly always in the same room (both because we have a small house and because we like to be together), but she grumbles about string squeak if it is excessive. I don't mind that - it reminds me to keep one eye on my technique and clean it up a bit. I guess I fall part-way between your view and @TheBigDipper's view - I can happily tolerate a certain amount of squeak, and for some tunes it's a part of the whole vibe, but in other places and contexts, it gets on my nerves.

I'm getting some good tips and insights from this thread. Good work, Fretboard people.

It could be that it affects her worse? Women tend to have more sensitive hearing, especially at the treble range (I should probably say, "citation needed", since I'm merely assuming that's true!). Also it could be one of those things that annoys the listener worse than the person doing it...

EDIT: I must try some Newtone acoustic strings, I like their electric strings. Usually I just use Pyramid, since they're pretty nice and usually pretty good value on Thomann.

Tannin · August 2022

No. True! Mrs Tannin can hear the fridge beep when I leave the door open. (I can't.) But I can hear the frogs in the dam even through two panes of double-glazing, which she can't.

Dave_Mc · August 2022

LOL my sister would put Eric Johnson to shame!

ICBM · August 2022

MrsICBM *likes* hearing string squeak - she’s mentioned it as one of the things she likes about Lloyd Cole’s playing, among others. Admittedly I don’t tend to get it much - maybe if it was louder or more constant she wouldn’t.

I usually use D’Addario or Newtone phosphor bronze, if it matters.

Mellish · August 2022

@ICBM ; try D'Addario XS on your Dove. Mine loves 'em

ICBM · August 2022

Mellish said:

@ICBM ; try D'Addario XS on your Dove. Mine loves 'em

My fingers don't like coated strings though...

ElectricXII · August 2022

Tannin said:

guitarjack66 said:

boy those Elixir strings are expensive. I'm not denying that might be the best out there but I'm on a tight budget and I needed two sets of strings. I had to plump for two packs of Martins because they were around the same price as one pack of Elixir strings.

They are indeed. A set of Elixirs will last about twice as long as a set of Martins, sometimes more. And they don't squeal! (Much.) On the other hand, Elixirs sound like Elixirs, while Martins sound like actual proper strings.

Jokes aside, there is no quality difference between Elixir and Martin, both are excellent strings in their own different ways. But for value, if you like the Martins, look out for Darco. These are the exact same strings from the same factory in a plainer package, and you'll save a pound or two a set.

I've got Elixirs on my J-35 at the moment. They still squeak. It bugs me too.

Snags · August 2022

On the Elixir vs Martin thing, I'd say it's very guitar dependent.

I'd used Martin's for forever, but my Furch came with Elixir. When I killed them, I swapped in Martin's and it sounded shit. Utterly shit. Bought a set of Elixir and harmony was restored.

So I popped Elixir's on my Takamine. It sounded shit, and went straight back to Martin's.

I last changed my Elixir's maybe a year ago. I've played the guitar most days, and have been doing two or three open mics a week for the last few months as well. I'm going to change them again this week, because I've got a couple of proper gigs coming up on the bank holiday, but I don't really need to. They do last.

jellyroll · August 2022

I hadn’t used Elixirs for a while but tried a set recently and they felt oily. Have they changed the recipe or am I imagining it?

Dave_Mc · August 2022

ICBM said:

MrsICBM *likes* hearing string squeak - she’s mentioned it as one of the things she likes about Lloyd Cole’s playing, among others. Admittedly I don’t tend to get it much - maybe if it was louder or more constant she wouldn’t.

I usually use D’Addario or Newtone phosphor bronze, if it matters.

I think my Dowina came with D'Addarios...

guitarjack66 · August 2022

ICBM said:

MrsICBM *likes* hearing string squeak - she’s mentioned it as one of the things she likes about Lloyd Cole’s playing, among others. Admittedly I don’t tend to get it much - maybe if it was louder or more constant she wouldn’t.

I usually use D’Addario or Newtone phosphor bronze, if it matters.

I'm not sure about my playing sounding like Lloyd Cole but it certainly sounds like a Commotion!

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