What are the best and worst keys to write in for horns?

marxski · August 2022

Hi what are the most sympathetic keys to write in for horns - specifically trumpet? Tuning flat or using a capo not being a problem for me on guitar I just would like to know what they would thank me for.

Whistler · August 2022

You will need to know whether you have Eb or Bb horn players.

The trumpet player in our band usually plays his Bb trumpet so we try not to play too often in A or E (which is difficult as the guitar player likes the keys of A and E) as the trumpeter will have to play in B (5 sharps) or F# (6 sharps) respectively.

If any of your horn players play an Eb instrument then steer clear of playing songs in D or A so that they can avoid the keys of B and F#.

marxski · August 2022

That’s super helpful and really well explained. Thank you!

merlin · August 2022

I play Bb and Eb instruments, clarinets and saxes (as well as G clarinet) a lot of the time.

If I'm improvising and reading, certain keys "fall under the fingers" more easily than others, as on any instrument.
Fewer sharps is helpful.

A Bb instrument has two more sharps (or two fewer flats) than a concert instrument ie concert C plays as D, concert Bb plays as C. An Eb instrument has three, ie concert C plays as A. Concert Eb plays as C.

Tannin · August 2022

Just for the sake of curiosity, does the difficulty for horn players asked to play in a nasty key (let's say A) lie in

* difficult fingerings?
* awkward range? (Similar to playing a guitar in Eb where you lose almost an octave out of your useful range and are either forced to use a lot of inversions or essentially play tenor guitar. Worse on a bass guitar, of course.)
* awkward sight-reading with all those sharps?

Or some combination of those. (Not sure why I want to know, I've never yet played with a brass player and probably never will. I'm just curious.)

guitars4you · August 2022

My dad was a sax player and hated playing with guitar based bands, playing songs in A or E - as others have said above, to many sharp notes - In away it is easier for a guitarist to move from say F to F#, but less so for a tenor sax player

TheMadMick · August 2022

Simple, try and stick to flat keys.

joeW · September 2022

I can't remember the last time i played in A or E - Bb and Eb and C (for flute) seem to be most popular with my sax player.

marxski · June 2023

joeW said:

I can't remember the last time i played in A or E - Bb and Eb and C (for flute) seem to be most popular with my sax player.

Yes I guess the simple answer for me as a guitar player is to tune down a half step.

sev112 · June 2023

Couple of things to bear in mind, the “open” notes (no valves down) are C and G, but the traditional bugle (doesn’t have valves) notes are D G B. So keys of C, G, Em gives us a slightly brighter tone for the trumpet. As we are concert Bb, that suggest keys of Bb, F and Dm.

Playability, I hated playing notes with just the 2 and 3 fingers so G# (or F# concert)

but in reality I just hated playing anything with 4 flats or sharps

the practical comfortable playing range for a good amateur trumpeter is low F# to high A; of course many amateurs can play the B C and even D above that but they don’t sound good much of the time.

lukedlb · June 2023

Would tuning down a half step on the guitar to Eb help? IIRC r&b or soul guitarists would do that because of the horn section. Hendrix may have simply enjoyed maintaining the tone or felt that it made singing a little easier as he only once had a horn section (brecker brothers) or jammed with a sax player.

Jalapeno · June 2023

Everything I end up playing is in Eb, Bb, but mainly it seems F.

Charlie Parker was notorius for clearing the bandstand during jams by calling for tunes in B natural !

fretmeister · June 2023

lukedlb said:

Would tuning down a half step on the guitar to Eb help? IIRC r&b or soul guitarists would do that because of the horn section. Hendrix may have simply enjoyed maintaining the tone or felt that it made singing a little easier as he only once had a horn section (brecker brothers) or jammed with a sax player.

No.

Because in many horn bands there will be other C instruments like trombone, oboe, bass, piano etc, and they won’t be tuning down.

Learn to play in different keys without retuning. It will serve you much better. Otherwise you’ll still end up transposing, but to the other C instruments. If the pianist calls out an F and you end up playing E at the first fret because you’ve downtuned, it will suck!

I went from rock and metal to big band and overnight had to play in F, Bb, Eb and Ab for the most part.

You get used to not playing many open strings really quickly. Compared to reeds and horns it is very easy for guitarists and bassists to play in those keys.

marxski · June 2023

fretmeister said:

lukedlb said:

Would tuning down a half step on the guitar to Eb help? IIRC r&b or soul guitarists would do that because of the horn section. Hendrix may have simply enjoyed maintaining the tone or felt that it made singing a little easier as he only once had a horn section (brecker brothers) or jammed with a sax player.

No.

Because in many horn bands there will be other C instruments like trombone, oboe, bass, piano etc, and they won’t be tuning down.

Learn to play in different keys without retuning. It will serve you much better. Otherwise you’ll still end up transposing, but to the other C instruments. If the pianist calls out an F and you end up playing E at the first fret because you’ve downtuned, it will suck!

I went from rock and metal to big band and overnight had to play in F, Bb, Eb and Ab for the most part.

You get used to not playing many open strings really quickly. Compared to reeds and horns it is very easy for guitarists and bassists to play in those keys.

Thanks for the clarification!

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What are the best and worst keys to write in for horns?

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