12 string headstock break

hessodreamy · July 2022

My dad’s gone and knocked his 12 string off it’s stand and snapped the headstock. Looks like a fair clean break. Given the amount of tension on a 12 string, are these fixable (by a pro)?

ICBM · July 2022

It is fixable, but it's going to be a fairly big job because it will need splinting (wooden reinforcing strips inlaid into the neck) due to where the break is and the shortness of the grain across it.

Is it a Seagull/Simon & Patrick/Art & Lutherie? They're notorious for breaks like this because the scarf joint is in the wrong place - you can see it running diagonally across the head through the E tuner position, which is too low to add any strength... hence why it's broken where it has. If it's another brand, it still has the same design fault.

If it's repaired properly with splints, it will actually be far stronger than it was before.

Jaycee · July 2022

Simillar to ICBM.

I just checked the scarfe joint on my 12 string build, it starts closer to the nut and finishes just on the second E machine head. So that is over 75mm of surface gluing area and has four machine heads acting as clamps.

hessodreamy · July 2022

ICBM said:

Is it a Seagull/Simon & Patrick/Art & Lutherie?

You called it! It’s a s&p

Mellish · July 2022

Oh dear. A fix is likely to be expensive cos, as @ICBM said, a lot of work.

Does your dad have a repairer in mind or does he want suggestions?

ICBM · July 2022

hessodreamy said:

It’s a s&p

Sadly, I guessed correctly because they have the second highest rate of headstock breaks of any brand I know of, after Gibson. So actually your dad shouldn't feel *too* stupid for breaking it - he started off at a disadvantage, which I'm sure he was unaware of.

Jaycee · July 2022

ICBM said:

hessodreamy said:

It’s a s&p

Sadly, I guessed correctly because they have the second highest rate of headstock breaks of any brand I know of, after Gibson. So actually your dad shouldn't feel *too* stupid for breaking it - he started off at a disadvantage, which I'm sure he was unaware of.

Why then don't these manufacturers re-design the joint? it's not rocket science.

ICBM · July 2022

Jaycee said:

Why then don't these manufacturers re-design the joint? it's not rocket science.

Cost. It really isn't rocket science - in fact, it's basic school-level woodwork. I remember being taught at the age of about ten that you shouldn't cut a shape across the grain of the wood because it's weak.

The purpose of this type of scarf joint is purely to save money, by using a shallower blank for the neck and gluing a piece on to make up the depth for the headstock. It does nothing to add strength, because after the neck is carved to shape the weak grain across the angle of the headstock is above the join - and unless the join is perfectly glued, it can itself fail. (They do sometimes, although less commonly than the break here.)

The *correct* way to scarf a headstock is to have the joint the other way round, so the headstock piece runs up under the fingerboard - that means the weak area now has the wood grain parallel to it, so it won't break. These do also need to be glued well, or the glue joint can fail, but that's much rarer.

Jaycee · July 2022

Yes I know, it was more rhetorical really.

They could then market it with "New improved headstock design to minimise breakages if dropped" ........and add £50 to the price ...

and enhance their reputation

hessodreamy · July 2022

Mellish said:

Does your dad have a repairer in mind or does he want suggestions?

He was planning to take it to his nearest box-shifter store - giggear in harlow. I don't know if they're any good for repairs. If you had any recommendations round the m25 part of essex, or round guildford (he's in the middle of moving house) then please fire away.

Jonathangus · July 2022

hessodreamy said:

Mellish said:

Does your dad have a repairer in mind or does he want suggestions?

He was planning to take it to his nearest box-shifter store - giggear in harlow. I don't know if they're any good for repairs. If you had any recommendations round the m25 part of essex, or round guildford (he's in the middle of moving house) then please fire away.

Neither of those locations is a million miles from @FelineGuitars in Croydon.

Mellish · July 2022

Not that area, I'm afraid. Nearest I can come up with is London.

But if that's any good let me know and I'll drop you a PM

Mellish · July 2022

As @Jonathangus said or CCGX in Hampton Wick.

But where your dad was going doesn't sound great from your description

MSedg · July 2022

Could try Ian Allerton (Guitar Works) - out in the countryside near Ware. It’s my nearest, and I’m not a million miles from Harlow. He’s usually got a decent queue of work though.

ICBM · July 2022

hessodreamy said:

He was planning to take it to his nearest box-shifter store - giggear in harlow. I don't know if they're any good for repairs.

Don't let him do that whatever you do, unless you know for certain that they have a proper, top-rank luthier working for them.

Although a fairly big job, this isn't a *difficult* one for an expert with experience who knows what they're doing... but it is for anyone else. A badly-done repair will leave it more or less unrepairable properly.

Also, don't be tempted to pick a luthier by price - although it's not a very expensive guitar, it's still worth paying for the job to be done right rather than penny-pinch and done wrong.

Mellish · July 2022

MSedg said:

Could try Ian Allerton (Guitar Works) - out in the countryside near Ware. It’s my nearest, and I’m not a million miles from Harlow. He’s usually got a decent queue of work though.

Well that's what you look for mate.

If they're busy, it's usually a good sign

BillDL · July 2022

As mentioned by others, make sure that wherever your Dad takes the guitar has a luthier experienced in repairs. You might see a shop with loads of good reviews for setups, fret levelling, etc, but unless you are seeing ones that describe proper break-fix jobs you really won't know what you will be getting until the guitar is returned.

Somebody I know was tempted by an £80 quote for a headstock repair almost identical to this one. It was from the "luthier" at his local music shop. The guy was well known for doing great setups, nut work, fret levelling and polising, but was clearly winging it when he "repaired" that guitar. It looked fine when it came back. The wood had mated very neatly with no missing splinters and the lacquer seam was smooth. Two dowels had been inserted just behind each of the E tuners and tinted reasonably well with matching lacquer. The repair lasted about a year, but when it did break again fairly close to the original break it was discovered that the "repairman" had simply drilled at an angle from the headstock through to the area close to the nut, smeared two-part epoxy into the break, and clamped it close with wood screws sunk below the wood surface. The dowels were just inserts to cover the screw heads. It had broken where the screws had been inserted. The cheap £80 (actually expensive for Araldite, two B&Q screws, and some tinted nail varnish) was not much of a bargain after all.

As @ICBM has pointed out, a repair like this requires splints or splines something like THIS process (actual work starts at 6:20).

hessodreamy · July 2022

Thanks for the suggestions, guys, I'll pass them on.

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12 string headstock break

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