Finding a "quasi-dominant" in different modes

Tannin · July 2022

In a practical sense I daresay I can work this out for myself, but I'd like to know what the "proper" way of doing this is.

Suppose I'm playing in a particular mode. My example is E phrygian. I want a chord that is going to bring me back to the tonic. In E major, the strongest pull is from the dominant, the V chord, B7 > E. In E minor, the usual thing seems to be to "cheat" a bit and play a B7 anyway, even though, strictly speaking, the v chord is minor and B7 is out of key.

In E phyrgian, the diatonic V chord is B half-diminished, which has a very strong pull sure enough, but it pulls us to C, not really back to the tonic Em.

Should I play a B7 anyway? Or do some other thing? (Meaning "should" in the sense of "what is the most traditional?")

To my ear, the obvious chord in E phrygian that really, really wants to come back to the tonic is the II chord, F. But what does the theory say?

More broadly, and without asking for an epic-length essay of an answer (well OK, maybe I am) how about the other common modes?

stratman3142 · July 2022

Tannin said:

...In E minor, the usual thing seems to be to "cheat" a bit and play a B7 anyway, even though, strictly speaking, the v chord is minor and B7 is out of key.

In that context I think of the B7 as being part of the E harmonic minor scale.

Keefy · July 2022

F7 - think of it as the b5 substitution for B7.

viz · July 2022

Yeah, you can always do a “perfect cadence”, i.e. going up a perfect 4th from the dominant position (or “5 chord”) to the tonic (or “1 chord”)

You can do it in Ionian and Lydian (the only two scales that have a major 5 chord (a “V”) in their diatonic scales)

You can also “cheat” as you put it, and deploy a V or a V7 in any other scale - minor, dorian, phrygian, mixolydian, as well as any other non-diatonic scale you fancy playing in, like Hungarian major for example, in fact, whatever scale you like. Even though all those scales strictly speaking call for a minor 3rd on the dominant. Basically whenever you want to return to the tonic chord, you can come off a V7 if you fancy. That’s just making music. There is NO RULE that states you have to, or even you should, stay within the diatonic notes. In fact I can’t think of a single classical piece that does!

And of course you can also deploy a dominant chord any time you want a perfect cadence, even if you’re not returning to the 1 chord. For example in major, you can do III7 - vi. You don’t have to do iii - vi. That’s called inserting a “secondary dominant”. It’s a way of creating a strong resolution to the 6 chord. Instead of just going from the 1 to the 6, you can go via the 3, and majorize it, thus making the resolution to the stronger, or more “perfect”. In other words, making a “perfect cadence”. Like in the first verse of That’s Life. The III7-vi basically behaves like a V7-i.

Cranky · August 2022

I like the way it sounds running a G/Bdim arpeggio

up to a high F then fall back into an Em for the finish.

Also, Em and Cmaj7 are basically the same chord. As is the Bdim and G7.

Kittyfrisk · August 2022

Sounds like you might need to try B/D/S Minor.
Less dominance....

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Finding a "quasi-dominant" in different modes

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