Slotted headstocks

lincolnblue · May 2022

I have noticed more acoustics with slotted headstocks recently. Is there any tonal benefit or is it purely an aesthetic thing? I always think of nylon string guitars with them but more and more steel string instruments seen to go for them now

bertie · May 2022

they're a pain in the arse to re-string......................well when you're used to standard tuners

Im pretty sure its an aesthetic thing, I think they're "ok" on smaller guitars, but for me the loss of "mass" on the headstock could mean some tonal/sustain impact

be good to see a true side-by-side of same models with slotted/standard - with the predicable caveat that no 2 are identical yadda yadda - but be interesting nonetheless

lincolnblue · May 2022

bertie said:

they're a pain in the arse to re-string......................well when you're used to standard tuners

Im pretty sure its an aesthetic thing, I think they're "ok" on smaller guitars, but for me the loss of "mass" on the headstock could mean some tonal/sustain impact

be good to see a true side-by-side of same models with slotted/standard - with the predicable caveat that no 2 are identical yadda yadda - but be interesting nonetheless

I have a Taylor 710e which has the normal headstock but I know they did the same model with a slotted so I would be intrigued if someone had done a comparison.

bertie · May 2022

lincolnblue said:

bertie said:

they're a pain in the arse to re-string......................well when you're used to standard tuners

Im pretty sure its an aesthetic thing, I think they're "ok" on smaller guitars, but for me the loss of "mass" on the headstock could mean some tonal/sustain impact

be good to see a true side-by-side of same models with slotted/standard - with the predicable caveat that no 2 are identical yadda yadda - but be interesting nonetheless

I have a Taylor 710e which has the normal headstock but I know they did the same model with a slotted so I would be intrigued if someone had done a comparison.

they're quite often an option for custom/luthier made "smaller bodied" like Atkin/Brook/Waghorn - and IIRC some Gibson dreads had slotted .............................

Tannin · May 2022

Some people say that you get better tone because you get a larger break angle across the nut. This is hogwash. The guitar maker is always free to angle the headstock to whatever nut break angle he or she feels is appropriate.

The weight factor may or may not be significant, I can't comment on that.

But I think the main reason some people think think slotted headstocks have better tone is because they very often go with 12-fret neck-body joins. Now there is absolutely no technical reason to do this. It is common simply because 12-fretters are old-fashioned, and slotted headstocks are too. So people naturally tend to lump them together. And, of course, a 12-fretter (with any headstock) sounds quite different to a standard 14-fretter for the very good reason that the bridge is in an acoustically better position. So yes, a lot of slot-heads sound great, but it has nothing at all to do with the slotted headstock, it's because they are 12-fretters.

Short summary of advantages: probably none.

Short summary of disadvantages: they are a right PITA to restring. They look ugly. Well, I think they look ugly, but I'm conditioned by decades of ownership of a slot-head 12-string. The trauma has not entirely healed.

Very short summary: I hate the damn things.

(I wouldn't say I'd never, ever buy another slot head, but it's one of those red-flag items which make me unlikely to consider an instrument.)

VimFuego · May 2022

yup, it's the 12 fret thing that makes slotted headstock guitars sound how they do. Personally I like the look of them, and having played fiddle for a while, the restringing doesn't bother me that much.

bertie · May 2022

I do think they "look" better on 00/0/parlor than they do on larger sizes, and they look better on them than paddle headstocks........ they sort of "define" a parlor for me................I defo would NOT order one on a larger model tho

VimFuego · May 2022

yeah, dreads with a slotted headstock look silly.

drofluf · May 2022

I'm with @VimFuego in that I prefer the look. In fact my next guitar has a slot head and is a12 fretter.

Having restrung slot head mandolins I don't see restringing as a major challenge

ICBM · May 2022

I have a slot-head 12-string, if that amuses anyone with the fun of restringing

.

Actually it's no problem, if you learn how to do it the easiest way. And it's a 12-fret Dreadnought, and it doesn't look silly

.

The head is also noticeably lighter than a solid one, and the break angle being steeper is not hogwash - it is. To achieve the same angle with a solid head it would need to be shaped like an angled version of a Fender headstock, with the headstock set below the line of the neck. Whether either of these things have a major effect on the tone, I'm not sure - headstock mass does, but it's relatively subtle.

Tannin · May 2022

ICBM said:

, and the break angle being steeper is not hogwash

Yes it is. The guitar designer can have ANY headstock angle he or she wishes to have.

Your Worship, I submit to the court Exhibit A, a lute. And with that I rest my case.

ICBM · May 2022

Tannin said:

Yes it is. The guitar designer can have ANY headstock angle he or she wishes to have.

Your Worship, I submit to the court Exhibit A, a lute. And with that I rest my case.

That's not the same thing. You could angle a solid headstock back further, but only so far before the strings wouldn't be able to reach the posts without binding on the front of the headstock. In fact, you will find that lutes have slotted headstocks

.

The only way to have as steep a break angle with a solid head as with a slotted one is to 'step' the headstock backwards like a Fender head, so that the line of the posts is still below where the face of the head would be on a standard angled one.

Simple geometry

.

VimFuego · May 2022

ICBM said:

I have a slot-head 12-string, if that amuses anyone with the fun of restringing .

Actually it's no problem, if you learn how to do it the easiest way. And it's a 12-fret Dreadnought, and it doesn't look silly .

The head is also noticeably lighter than a solid one, and the break angle being steeper is not hogwash - it is. To achieve the same angle with a solid head it would need to be shaped like an angled version of a Fender headstock, with the headstock set below the line of the neck. Whether either of these things have a major effect on the tone, I'm not sure - headstock mass does, but it's relatively subtle.

well, you're its daddy, you have to love how it looks. But that sad fact is, your guitar ain't getting no dances at the prom, no matter how you dress that hog up.

ICBM · May 2022

VimFuego said:

well, you're its daddy, you have to love how it looks. But that sad fact is, your guitar ain't getting no dances at the prom, no matter how you dress that hog up.

Well, I admit I like big curvy, er... guitars

- but it's really quite nice looking I think

.

Image: https://i.pinimg.com/474x/63/34/33/633433983aec88fa87fc2835366de4d8--martin-guitars-vintage-guitars.jpg

(Not actually mine, but identical to it.)

VimFuego · May 2022

actually, that doesn't look any worse than any other sort of 12 stringer. EDIT: at least it doesn't have a cutaway, can't stand the look of a cutaway on a dread.

thermionic · May 2022

Why hasn’t anyone made a 12-string acoustic with a Rickenbacker arrangement of tuners?

(Someone will probably link to a photo of such a thing now…)

ICBM · May 2022

thermionic said:

Why hasn’t anyone made a 12-string acoustic with a Rickenbacker arrangement of tuners?

(Someone will probably link to a photo of such a thing now…)

Unsurprisingly, they did

.

Image: https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--asfOqzpW--/f_auto,t_large/v1551286296/cnuz9irbjvv2p8aksmhz.jpg

Other than that, because if anyone else used it they would get a lawyergram from Mr. Hall.

malcolmkindness · May 2022

Slotted headstocks are traditional on small bodied 12 fret guitars because they have worked perfectly for centuries. They are not more difficult to restring and they are much easier to use from a playing position. I'm not sure about the break angle thing, but several well regarded players have made this claim so I'm happy to believe them.
I'm sure paddle type headstocks just became common because they are much easier and quicker to make in a factory setting.

bertie · May 2022

malcolmkindness said:

They are not more difficult to restring

well you're 3 -1 down on that argument at the moment.

Gandalph · May 2022

I like the look of them but agree they look better suited to smaller bodied 12 fret guitars. I've only got one of those right now.

Apart from the aesthetics I also like the fact that my wrist sits at a more natural angle when tuning up.

McSwaggerty · May 2022

bertie said:

malcolmkindness said:

They are not more difficult to restring

well you're 3 -1 down on that argument at the moment.

4 -1 down now.

Dave_Mc · May 2022

How much harder are they to restring? Bearing in mind my restringing technique is ropey at the best of times...

(I'm tempted by that Harley Benton all-solid parlour, on the basis that I probably wouldn't pay serious, or even semi-serious, money for a parlour, and it only comes with a slotted headstock.)

drofluf · May 2022

Dave_Mc said:

How much harder are they to restring? Bearing in mind my restringing technique is ropey at the best of times...

(I'm tempted by that Harley Benton all-solid parlour, on the basis that I probably wouldn't pay serious, or even semi-serious, money for a parlour, and it only comes with a slotted headstock.)

Seriously not much harder, a different technique but once you get used to it it's no harder.

Probably takes me a few minutes more to totally restring

Soupman · May 2022

Nah, slotted headstocks are ugly. They remind me of a cheap plywood thing ( I wouldn't grace it with the title 'guitar' - plywood body, classical style, steel strings - horrible thing looking back), the first instrument (hah!) I bought to see if it was something I would stick with. Amazingly it was.Upshot is that I prefer enclosed tuners.
The point about traditional design on 12-fretters is probably correct. Many years ago my son took up violin lessons at school. I remember trying to tune the damned thing with those wooden friction pegs and wishing someone would have the sense to fit the violin with geared tuners - might look odd but much more functional.
Each to their own of course

TheMadMick · May 2022

It's just a bit fiddly. Don't let it put you off if you really want the guitar. It's like so much in this game, it gets easier with practice.

Dave_Mc · May 2022

Thanks @drofluf and @TheMadMick - I watched a Youtube video when I was first considering it a few weeks ago, and that's what it looked like- when you did it the correct way it didn't seem too bad. But then several people in here said it was a pain and I started worrying!

drofluf · May 2022

Of my guitars the one I find hardest to restring is the Telecaster - it has vintage/slotted tuners where you poke the string down the shaft, it's great that there's no sharp end to stab you but I struggle with the plain B & E (actually A & D but that's another story).

Since the last restring I've found a thread on here that seems to make it easier.

bertie · May 2022

TheMadMick said:

It's just a bit fiddly. Don't let it put you off if you really want the guitar. It's like so much in this game, it gets easier with practice.

I wouldnt get shot of my Tanglewood because of it for sure - it is defo "lack of practice" but I find it a complete ball ache compared to the simplicity of normal headstock/tuners.

drofluf said:

Of my guitars the one I find hardest to restring is the Telecaster - it has vintage/slotted tuners where you poke the string down the shaft, it's great that there's no sharp end to stab you but I struggle with the plain B & E (actually A & D but that's another story).

Since the last restring I've found a thread on here that seems to make it easier.

see now to me, that's a walk in the park compared to a slotted................however no longer an issue cos Ive sold my tele

ICBM · May 2022

Dave_Mc said:

How much harder are they to restring? Bearing in mind my restringing technique is ropey at the best of times...

Not harder at all really, although it does depend if you're restringing the whole guitar or not. If you are, you just make sure you take the strings off from the top end first and work towards the nut, and then restring the other way. It can be a bit of a pain to replace just one string from a row nearer the nut.

malcolmkindness · May 2022

McSwaggerty said:

bertie said:

malcolmkindness said:

They are not more difficult to restring

well you're 3 -1 down on that argument at the moment.

4 -1 down now.

I guess like most things in life, it's just a question of getting used to it.

malcolmkindness · May 2022

Gandalph said:
Apart from the aesthetics I also like the fact that my wrist sits at a more natural angle when tuning up.

This was my point as well when I said they were easier to use.

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